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Old 11/20/07, 11:56 AM   #2226
Typhon
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Originally Posted by Tkon View Post
Do you have windfury? You should be able to keep this rotation up at the least.
That's the crux of the matter. Without windfury I find its quite hard to keep a consistent attack cycle going, especially if you're also the one keeping TC/DS etc up.

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Old 11/20/07, 12:12 PM   #2227
Nezralix
Bald Bull
 
Orc Warrior
 
Burning Blade
Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
That's the crux of the matter. Without windfury I find its quite hard to keep a consistent attack cycle going, especially if you're also the one keeping TC/DS etc up.
Makes you wonder if they shouldn't just let Thunderclap be usable in all stances. There's no good reason why it should be available in Battle but not Berserker, and it's a pretty important debuff.

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Old 11/20/07, 2:48 PM   #2228
hawkk
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warrior
 
Kilrogg
I'm curious as to which chest armor a lot of the endgame warriors are using. Heartshatter Breastplate is obviously very good, but given the choice between that and Tier 6 or Armorsmithing Tier 3, which would you ideally prefer? No doubt the 3 sockets on the T6 and the Bulwark are valuable, but seeing as the T6 sockets are yellow/blue/blue, I question its usefulness.

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Old 11/20/07, 3:29 PM   #2229
 Darkmyst
Terrible Terry Tate, Forum Linebacker.
 
Darkmyst's Avatar
 
Elyree
Troll Warrior
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by hawkk View Post
I'm curious as to which chest armor a lot of the endgame warriors are using. Heartshatter Breastplate is obviously very good, but given the choice between that and Tier 6 or Armorsmithing Tier 3, which would you ideally prefer? No doubt the 3 sockets on the T6 and the Bulwark are valuable, but seeing as the T6 sockets are yellow/blue/blue, I question its usefulness.

Socket colors only matter for the socket bonus and most of those bonus aren't worth chasing. Ignore the socket colors and judge the item as if you stuffed 3 red gems into it.

Originally Posted by XI- View Post
Do you have a point or are you just crying now?

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Old 11/20/07, 5:47 PM   #2230
Grimrage
Von Kaiser
 
Grimrage's Avatar
 
Orc Shaman
 
Icecrown
I'm having a dilemma of sorts. My current set of gear has decent AP and crit but terrible hit. I don't miss many BT or WW cooldowns but maybe I'm missing more than I realize. My DPS is okay (considering I never get an optimal group) but I'm thinking my hit rating is hurting me. I have some pieces I can switch out that put me at 1990 AP, 190 hit and 31.5% crit with about 1k less health but the big contributor is the Fel Leather Boots and it's hard for me to use them over the Warboots of Obliteration. Would you choose the stats from my current gear, the stats I listed or a mix of the two? Thanks for the help.

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Old 11/20/07, 6:25 PM   #2231
Randor
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Kilrogg
You could do a few things. Maybe get the heroic badge neck. Bracers of Eradication are very good and maybe a cloak with +hit.

You shouldn't need to add too much with your gear.

OH, and the new heroic badge gear also has +hit on them.

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Old 11/21/07, 3:29 AM   #2232
kyote
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Der Rat von Dalaran (EU)
I don't know if its answered yet, but I've got a question.
The old Orc Racial weapon skill was counted seperate for each Hand.
You could see this in your Char screen.

How ist it with the new racial? The Char screen doesn't show seperated values.

And also the Humans Racial with Sword and Mace is possibly bugged whith this 10 expertise instead of 5, I wonder if it counts for both hands.

Last edited by kyote : 11/21/07 at 3:52 AM.

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Old 11/21/07, 4:35 AM   #2233
Machinator
Don Flamenco
 
Troll Warrior
 
Aggramar
For all the talk of racials recently, especially humans with sword and mace, has anyone confirmed that its not just a display issue? The character screen has shown things incorrectly before, only taking certain things into account but not others.

"Information is ammunition."

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Old 11/21/07, 8:43 AM   #2234
Gruntle
King Hippo
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Earthen Ring (EU)
Well, that's not really easy to test. I guess the simplest way would be to make tests on dodge in the similar way as the tests on misses and weapon skill were done before 2.3. The problem is that we don't know the exact figure for base dodge (most people claim it's 5.6, but I haven't seen any really good tests of this). If we can assume a 5.6% base dodge, then you need to get enough Expertise minus the expertise from the racial (10 or 5) to cap this. Look at the logs and see if you have any dodges => constraints on the racial.

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Old 11/21/07, 2:08 PM   #2235
Kaan
Piston Honda
 
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Human Warrior
 
Arthas (EU)
I have no real facts, I'm just speaking from my experience in the last raids and some data in WWS.

When dual-wielding Mace + Sword instead of Mace + Mace, I got less dodges in WWS. Last night at Solarian I even had not 1 single Dodge at the mobs spawning from Solarian. This makes sense, when 10 Expertise + Weapon Mastery gives -4,5% Dodge, the trash mobs, Solarian spawns, couldn't dodge (I even made quite much use of whirlwind/cleave/sweeping strikes, so I had many attacks on the mobs), due to 5% basechance to dodge, -4,5% would be 0,50% dodge. Just some thoughts, no facts.

Wow Web Stats

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Old 11/21/07, 3:01 PM   #2236
hawkk
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warrior
 
Kilrogg
I'm going to agree with Kaan. Using a sword/mace combo I had the following results in Hyjal/BT:

Melee attacks landed: 4575
Dodged attacks: 110
Parried attacks: 51

I've seen similar results since the patch and I'd feel pretty confidant saying 10 expertise is applied globally.

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Old 11/21/07, 3:15 PM   #2237
Korlong
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Warrior
 
<BAD>
Demon Soul
Well based on your numbers:

Originally Posted by hawkk View Post
Melee attacks landed: 4575
Dodged attacks: 110
Parried attacks: 51
that's 2.3%.

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Old 11/21/07, 3:29 PM   #2238
hawkk
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warrior
 
Kilrogg
WoW Web Stats

Here's the WWS link. I think I misread the number of attacks. WWS calculated dodges at 1%, but yeah, what I posted is obviously not 1%.

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Old 11/21/07, 4:49 PM   #2239
Kolmar
Von Kaiser
 
Kolmar's Avatar
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Zul'Jin
I'll get a WWS for confirmation asap (hopefully tonight), but from glancing over Recount, with 10 expertise from racials, 5 from a [Shapeshifter's Signet], and -2% dodge from Weapon Mastery, I *only* saw dodges on fights with lvl 73 mobs, with a full VR fight getting 6 dodges and a full Solarian getting 1. This is in agreement with an assumed -5.75% to dodge.

Last edited by Kolmar : 11/21/07 at 4:53 PM. Reason: added sum of -dodge, item link

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Old 11/21/07, 6:03 PM   #2240
Emeraude
Bald Bull
 
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Night Elf Warrior
 
Sargeras
According to the 2.3.2 Patch Notes, Defiance's Weapon Expertise bonus(+6) now applies to all stances.

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Old 11/21/07, 8:44 PM   #2241
Melkoran
Glass Joe
 
Melkoran's Avatar
 
Orc Warrior
 
Durotan
So with the expertise from Defiance confirmed to be active in all stances, would it be viable to pick this up rather than go for the usual Impale?

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Old 11/21/07, 9:20 PM   #2242
Danath
Banned
 
Human Paladin
 
Les Sentinelles (EU)
Originally Posted by Melkoran View Post
So with the expertise from Defiance confirmed to be active in all stances, would it be viable to pick this up rather than go for the usual Impale?
I don't think so. It doesn't really matter mate, unless they put it in the first tier we will always lose valuable points.

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Old 11/22/07, 12:38 AM   #2243
Melkoran
Glass Joe
 
Melkoran's Avatar
 
Orc Warrior
 
Durotan
Aye, didn't think is was worth losing the 20% critical bonus, Thought this does bring up another question of mine which I've had a dilemma with...

...In my current Fury spec, I have to choose between Improved Execute or the 2% reduced dodge where improved intercept used to be. I'm leaning towards the execute, but I'm not sure if the overall DPS upgrade from the dodge would outweigh the last 20% from the greater execute damage.

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Old 11/22/07, 2:12 AM   #2244
Emeraude
Bald Bull
 
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Night Elf Warrior
 
Sargeras
Originally Posted by Melkoran View Post
Aye, didn't think is was worth losing the 20% critical bonus, Thought this does bring up another question of mine which I've had a dilemma with...

...In my current Fury spec, I have to choose between Improved Execute or the 2% reduced dodge where improved intercept used to be. I'm leaning towards the execute, but I'm not sure if the overall DPS upgrade from the dodge would outweigh the last 20% from the greater execute damage.
Reduced dodge is better.

Your options are Imp Execute or Precision for the 2 points.

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Old 11/22/07, 3:51 AM   #2245
kyote
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Der Rat von Dalaran (EU)
Originally Posted by hawkk View Post
WoW Web Stats

Here's the WWS link. I think I misread the number of attacks. WWS calculated dodges at 1%, but yeah, what I posted is obviously not 1%.
That would say, I could try the Fistweapon "Furor" instead of my fast S2 OH Axe?
As Tauren (the Spreadsheet says) it would boost my Damage, but not as Orc, if the racial doesn#t count for it.

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Old 11/22/07, 7:11 AM   #2246
Ondskapt
Glass Joe
 
Troll Warrior
 
Cho'gall (EU)
Originally Posted by Melkoran View Post
So with the expertise from Defiance confirmed to be active in all stances, would it be viable to pick this up rather than go for the usual Impale?
I had the same idea.
According to the spreadsheet with my current gear,

2/2 Impale + 3.6% dodge on targets gives me 1095dps (current 17/44/0)
0/2 Impale + 2.1% dodge (ie 6 expertise) gives me 1119dps (5/41/15)

As I don't know how to change expertise in the spreadsheet, I just replaced the numbers in "buffed dps" tab. I'm not sure if it doesn't erase formulas or so

Last edited by Ondskapt : 11/22/07 at 7:23 AM. Reason: add templates

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Old 11/22/07, 8:43 AM   #2247
tedbell
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warrior
 
Illidan
Armory:

The World of Warcraft Armory

Got a good deal of armor pen gear over the week. Went from 0 armor pen to around 450. Other changes were that I decided to use a fast offhand [Claw of the Phoenix] rather than the 2.6 speed [Netherbane]. Also, I had a rogue in my group who popped drums of battle.

I find the results interesting. First of all, I had a lower crit rate than before which I had anticipated would lead to average results but it really didn't seem to matter. Also, it seems that with 1.5 speed offhand I did 7% of my overall damage from whirlwind whereas with a slow offhand it was just 9%. I'm undecided about which season 3 offhand to buy, slow or fast. Any thoughts?

Last week's WWS:
1520 DPS sustained

Gerbell - WWS


This week's WWS:
1732 DPS sustained

Gerbell - WWS

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Old 11/22/07, 8:58 AM   #2248
Gruntle
King Hippo
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Earthen Ring (EU)
Originally Posted by Ondskapt View Post
I had the same idea.
According to the spreadsheet with my current gear,

2/2 Impale + 3.6% dodge on targets gives me 1095dps (current 17/44/0)
0/2 Impale + 2.1% dodge (ie 6 expertise) gives me 1119dps (5/41/15)

As I don't know how to change expertise in the spreadsheet, I just replaced the numbers in "buffed dps" tab. I'm not sure if it doesn't erase formulas or so
Hmm, I don't get that. I get a slight dps loss when not having Impale and adding 6 expertise. About 1% dps loss (10 dps in gear giving me about 1000 dps). Also, Deep wounds is not modeled in the spreadsheet, it will add some damage. There must be somethiong wrong with how you set things up, you cannot gain 25 dps by getting rid of 3 talent points in fury and Impale.

It may be good enough to consider though, a very nice build for 5-man tanking as well as added survivability in both PvE and PvP. Having TM should be quite nice as well for PvP. I would go 3/44/14 though.

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Old 11/22/07, 9:56 AM   #2249
Bronwyn
Piston Honda
 
Human Warrior
 
Alleria (EU)
I just specced 3/44/14 and will try this tonight. However, the 6 expertise only become active when I switch to defensive stance - 10 in berserk --> 16 in defensive. (This -might- be a display issue - I will test this tonight, currently, I'm sitting at -5.75% dodge - so there shouldn't be any more dodges).

I know I will have roughly 20-30 dps less than before, but I do gain last stand, 1000 armor and tactical mastery. Also I bought imp. Bloodrage, which is not as good as anger management though.

I defintitely like the added survivability from last stand. Think of the following encounters:
Winterchill
Azgalor
Archimonde
------------
Naj'entus
RoS (Phase III)
Shahraz (a free 3000 health pot for FA)
Council (those unlucky blizzard + venom + X moments)

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Old 11/22/07, 10:03 AM   #2250
Charsi
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Bronwyn View Post
I just specced 3/44/14 and will try this tonight. However, the 6 expertise only become active when I switch to defensive stance - 10 in berserk --> 16 in defensive. (This -might- be a display issue - I will test this tonight, currently, I'm sitting at -5.75% dodge - so there shouldn't be any more dodges).
Right now on live the Expertise from Defiance is not working in stances other than Defensive.

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