I've been haphazardly collecting gear to begin raiding full time as a dps warrior in Hyjal and BT. I've been checking the forums and trolling the armory looking for insight, but I havn't seen a real definitive answer to whether the 33/28 build is superior to the 17/44 dual wield.
Our guild tends to be caster heavy when raiding and it was always my assumption (perhaps foolish) that the imp slam warriors tended to be inferior unless they were in a melee heavy raid setup. I'm not great at digging through the numbers but it seems to me that the end results seem pretty comparable . . . or am I completely off base?
Edit: I should also note that our group setups are usually far from optimal. It's pretty easy to get a feral drood but I rarely get windfury.
Do you always swap to dual wield and execute, or only when you get heroism or something similar? I've heard about Arms warriors switching to DW and executing a bit before, but I've never tried myself. If it is an increase in DPS and the difference is spamming 1 button vs maintaining a rotation, I don't see why not to do it.
I do it every now and then. Even if you don't get a bloodlust you can always pop a haste potion.
Try dual weilding, bloodlust, deathwish, recklessness, haste potion, trinket and if you're lucky, drums of battle and then spam execute
I've been haphazardly collecting gear to begin raiding full time as a dps warrior in Hyjal and BT. I've been checking the forums and trolling the armory looking for insight, but I havn't seen a real definitive answer to whether the 33/28 build is superior to the 17/44 dual wield.
Our guild tends to be caster heavy when raiding and it was always my assumption (perhaps foolish) that the imp slam warriors tended to be inferior unless they were in a melee heavy raid setup. I'm not great at digging through the numbers but it seems to me that the end results seem pretty comparable . . . or am I completely off base?
Edit: I should also note that our group setups are usually far from optimal. It's pretty easy to get a feral drood but I rarely get windfury.
33/28 is pretty crap if you dont have wf, in my experience. You tend to get very low on rage. I would say that dw fury is always superior if you compare the 2 builds, if you are only talking about your own dps that is. The total raid dps is a entierly different matter.
So I went to Maxdps.com and i input my stats for my fury warrior. What puzzled me is it said the third best mh in the game for me is talon of the phoenix. It says it produces better dps than a dragonstrike, syphon, rising tide. The only better mh's in the game it says are any of the s3 mh's or the warglaives. Thoughts opinions on this?
I even changed alot of stats around because i figured ok maybe its favoring hit. So i put my hit at 300 and it still said it was the third best mh in the game.
So I went to Maxdps.com and i input my stats for my fury warrior. What puzzled me is it said the third best mh in the game for me is talon of the phoenix. It says it produces better dps than a dragonstrike, syphon, rising tide. The only better mh's in the game it says are any of the s3 mh's or the warglaives. Thoughts opinions on this?
I even changed alot of stats around because i figured ok maybe its favoring hit. So i put my hit at 300 and it still said it was the third best mh in the game.
Look at the Talon's stats and compare it to [Wicked Edge of the Planes]. The Talon is no slouch for Fury stats as well as straight DPS. That site is pretty accurate, only seeming to disagree on what is the best for each slot (when it actually does disagree) by barely a couple of DPS difference over what the spreadsheet thinks is the best. I am pretty sure that site runs off a spreadsheet as well, so it's not just some random plugin that adds up what items add up to a higher "listed" DPS.
It doesn't really matter what my personal opinion on it is. Both the spreadsheet and that site agree it's a very good weapon. I wouldn't use it over what I have now due to losing the expertise bonus, but if I wasn't an Orc, or blacksmith and the Talon dropped, I wouldn't feel bad for picking it up. The spreadhseet already shows it being better than what I am using anyway for any non Orc. It also looks a hell of a lot cooler...that has to count for something!
Yeah, my warrior is a tauren and i am 2 nethers away from a dragonstrike. But after seeing this im starting to think maybe i should pick it up and then wait for belt of red battle to drop and just craft it.
I'm using Talon of the Phoenix & Talon of Aszhara (exec/mungo). I recently got the syphon (2,8 speed, 100,2DPS + Leech proc). Considering the overall stats and die 2,7speed of both weapons I stayed with the Phoenix as MH. Spreadsheets tells me it's a ~5 DPS increase. Although the Leech Proc is a lot of fun I don't think it would compensate the 19Crit/15Hit/2AP + Style factor the Claw has.
As a Tauren I can choose my weapons quite easy for stats and not for weapon-class.
I noticed that you use slow mh/slow oh. Has their been a defenitive answer on this? I see some people say its great for fast offhand still as long as its not a dagger and others say slow offhand. I dont see how a slow offhand can be great because whirlwind isnt apart of some huge percentage of our dps. Plus arent their rage problems?
Please shed some light with your opinions everyone on this. Id really like to see some numbers and reasoning.
I noticed that you use slow mh/slow oh. Has their been a defenitive answer on this? I see some people say its great for fast offhand still as long as its not a dagger and others say slow offhand. I dont see how a slow offhand can be great because whirlwind isnt apart of some huge percentage of our dps. Plus arent their rage problems?
Please shed some light with your opinions everyone on this. Id really like to see some numbers and reasoning.
Fast OH was a myth. I've never had any rage problems with any set of weapons no matter the speed. That was a myth people threw around for a long time, but it just isnt true. Theres no reason to use a fast oh. Unless its a illidan OH.
Fast OH was a myth. I've never had any rage problems with any set of weapons no matter the speed. That was a myth people threw around for a long time, but it just isnt true. Theres no reason to use a fast oh. Unless its a illidan OH.
Fast offhand was never a myth. It's true it didn't matter after the normalisation of unbriddled wrath but still it was always a possible preference for a smoother rage gain.
Now, with double whirlwinds, favor has moved towards slow OH. But as said WW has a) little percentage of my damage and b) gains more from overall ap then the actuall weapon speed. So the dps gain, while existing, might be very low depending on which weapons you can choose from.
So now, fast offhand is still a possible preference. If you have a nice slow OH and can handle its rage fine, by all means go for it. But if you use a good fast offhand you get smoother rage gain and you wont miss out on much dps.
Fast OH was a myth. I've never had any rage problems with any set of weapons no matter the speed. That was a myth people threw around for a long time, but it just isnt true. Theres no reason to use a fast oh. Unless its a illidan OH.
Slow OH was as much a myth as fast OH. They had different advantages and disadvantages. But you cant just dismiss it like there was nothing good about it.
Fast OH was a myth. I've never had any rage problems with any set of weapons no matter the speed. That was a myth people threw around for a long time, but it just isnt true. Theres no reason to use a fast oh. Unless its a illidan OH.
For undergeared players, a fast OH had specific benefits. To say that it was a myth is as ignorant as those who said a slow OH was bad for so long.
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Thats just not true, you get the same amount of rage gen with the slow weapon. It just comes in bigger bursts. And as long as you adjust to the different speed of rage gen, its all the same. Its like gettign payed once a week vs. once amonth. You still get payed teh same, you can still spend it on the same stuff, you just have to budget it better.
To say a slow OH is a myth is ridiculous. Becuase of the WW change, it will do more dmg then a fast OH of the same stats, no matter what. There is just no reason to have a fast OH at all.
Don't forget SS includes offhand attacks, and slower weapons will beef up those hits slightly. Since it's only 10 charges, you want to make the most out of them.
Over the last few days ive gotten back to forum browsing, and ive noticed that the trend of speccing 1/2 Imp WW. seems to have disappeared. Have i missed the shift in spec changes? Afaik 1/2 Imp WW. allowed for a more solid skill rotation, and it is what im specced currently.
Thats just not true, you get the same amount of rage gen with the slow weapon. It just comes in bigger bursts. And as long as you adjust to the different speed of rage gen, its all the same. Its like gettign payed once a week vs. once amonth. You still get payed teh same, you can still spend it on the same stuff, you just have to budget it better.
In theory (and in spreadsheets) this is how it works, BUT in practice you can run into problems with a slow/slow setup and low hit rating (i.e. >9% but only by a small margin). Miss streaks can then potentially have the effect that your rage generation gets so low that you cannot maintain your cycle (3BT/2WW). Sure, you will have some "hit streaks" as well where rage will be more than enough for the cycle, but you won't be able to make up for the lost damage in of a missed cycle. With fast weapons, the fact that you get rage in smaller chunks will mean that a miss is less damaging for your rage generation. Ofc, if you have very good gear (and/or high hit) you will not notice this effectas much, you will nearly always have enough rage for the cycle.
As long as your not using a dagger offhand, running with a fast offhand will not affect your dps by much, the damage lost from WW will be small (since most of the damage come from AP anyway). A fast offhand will probably cause your flurry uptime to go down by 2-4%, but the total damage loss from using a fast OH will be on the order of 1%. So there is no reason to pick a slow offhand with lower dps/stats, but if you have the choice of two equal weapon, the slower will give you a little bit higher total dps (if you don't count possible cycle failures).
Execute is alwyas better with a fast/fast setup, but you can switch to 2 fast weapons for that phase.
To say a slow OH is a myth is ridiculous. Becuase of the WW change, it will do more dmg then a fast OH of the same stats, no matter what. There is just no reason to have a fast OH at all.
Consistency. I have used fast OH for a while, but I still keep a slow weapon around for things like AOE. It allows you to run with less hit rating without worrying about having rage. Yes a slower OH will do more WW damage, yes you will lose a bit of flurry uptime. But the change is so small even assuming you have perfect rotations and dont have miss streaks. Switching from a Merc Gladiator Hacker to Cleaver is a gain of 8 dps, out of a theoretical 1265, and that is if you have perfect cycles and no miss streaks. Now if your chance to dodge/miss is about 15%, then you have a 2% chance of not getting any rage for 2 seconds(2.6 speed with flurry). For me thats about 24 rage. Now if somehow you are at the point where you never say you dont need any more rage, which people have said doesn't really happen often, then fast OH holds no advantage.
This is not saying that Fast or Slow OH is better, but it comes down to the rage consistency that you are comfortable with.
It also depends on itemization, I dont think anyone would use [Spiteblade] over [Blade of Savagery].
I'm doing fine with my slow/slow setup. My problem is, that my raid usally has another dw-warrior who gets in the melee grp. That's why I haven't been able to test my true potential for quite some time in a consistent way, because I don't have that much time to show up for every raid. Although the funny thing, I tanked Kael+a few bosses in Hyal when our MT was absent. So my raid trusts me, but most of the time I'm stucked in a non-melee grp. Lucky to get a druid or hunter there...
My WWS stats are ok, but without totems+leader of the pack I lack quite some dmg opportunities.
I will go for another fast OH for execute time, though. Rage burst are sometimes a problem, but as long as I can maintain my cycle I won't change my setup.
Btw. please support the change T6 threads in off. blizz forums. I find it very unpleasant to see S3 getting started with new gear/weapons and the T6 stuff not upgraded, as they did with T5...
I don't buy into the "but warrior got agi and with pala-buffs..." .... Give me some Crit Rating! They changed T5 and admitted it was a mistake when they put agility on T5. Now please change T6, otherwise I'm thinking of passing most of the tokens to build a T6 nonset equivalent.
Last edited by DKP-Borgar : 11/26/07 at 3:05 PM.
Reason: spelling
I picked up a [Soul Cleaver] from our first Teron kill with the intent of going 33/28 for PvE, we already have 1 fury warrior in the raid outside of myself 90% of the time so I figured Blood Frenzy would be a nice addition to the melee/hunter dps.
I've scanned the thread on various search keywords but I haven't been able to find an answer to my question. I plugged my 33/28 gear into the spreadsheet and it suggests a 4x Slam, MS/WW rotation. I was wondering how I should handle this, so if anyone could show me what a 33/28 rotation looks like it would be appreciated
The other thing I'm wondering is what I do when the boss is <19% HP, I've heard people say that I should just continue the normal rotation and forget about executing and some others say that I should swap to DW and execute.
Hey, thanks for all the constructive comments I got for my queries. I guess my DPS has gone up a bit, and will continue to do so as I get better with the rotation and liberal use of heroic strike.
11/23/07, 3:47 PM
