I had 34% crit unbuffed recently, switched 2% of it, for some ArP and saw a pretty huge increase in damage, and my flurry uptime didn't take that big of a hit either. Hopefully the hot fixes will also raise the flurry uptime as well which reduces the dependance on crit even further.
Oh, used the wrong term. They're going to fix the offhand WW crit, not proccing flurry and the one were if you have one flurry charge left and you crit, it doesn't refresh. Those will be fixed, so they both proc flurry.
Well my post was mainly referring to the posters who were stacking crit in excess of 35%+ unbuffed. Personally I did follow my socket colors, because crit still was useful until I reached a comfortable number in which I felt that flurry uptime, as well as incoming rage generation was acceptable. It was about 32% crit unbuffed in berzerker stance.
I dunno, Im at 34% now and 1900 ap unbuffed in zerker stance. Both Str and Crit rating steadily increase in power as I gear, but crit seems to scaling faster and is almost past str. Its getting close to a wicked noble topaz in red sockets over bold ruby. Its not that its useful for flurry, past a point it does almost nothing for uptime. But it is double damage, and more than that as you get more HS until you cant do anymore due to weapon speed.
think they my reitemize Royal Gauntlets of Silvermoon from kael thas to dps gloves since they match the rest of the set?, I picked these up today just for looks. but wondering if they become more handy later on
think they my reitemize Royal Gauntlets of Silvermoon from kael thas to dps gloves since they match the rest of the set?, I picked these up today just for looks. but wondering if they become more handy later on
They have zero dps stats. You'd be better off with just about any other glove for DPS purposes.
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I dunno, Im at 34% now and 1900 ap unbuffed in zerker stance. Both Str and Crit rating steadily increase in power as I gear, but crit seems to scaling faster and is almost past str. Its getting close to a wicked noble topaz in red sockets over bold ruby. Its not that its useful for flurry, past a point it does almost nothing for uptime. But it is double damage, and more than that as you get more HS until you cant do anymore due to weapon speed.
At your level of gear, str is by far better than crit. With MotW, BoK, LotP, Stone on offhand, mongoose up, you should have close to 45% crit, adding another 1% crit isn't nearly as much of a dps increase as adding more AP, which makes ALL of your attacks do more damage. Which brings me to double executioner, I have no idea why anyone would double executioner, considering they cant double stack. The uptime on just MH executioner, along with mongoose's haste + crit for OH, makes it a clear winner. For your level of gear, I'd even consider potency over executioner OH.
I also highly doubt you can keep up HS on every mainhand swing, I have nearly 2200 AP and 33.5% unbuffed crit and I barely can.
They have zero dps stats. You'd be better off with just about any other glove for DPS purposes.
oh I didnt take them for dps, I got better trust me :P. Just wondering if it would of been better to make them dps gloves since the rest of the set matches
At your level of gear, str is by far better than crit. With MotW, BoK, LotP, Stone on offhand, mongoose up, you should have close to 45% crit, adding another 1% crit isn't nearly as much of a dps increase as adding more AP, which makes ALL of your attacks do more damage. Which brings me to double executioner, I have no idea why anyone would double executioner, considering they cant double stack. The uptime on just MH executioner, along with mongoose's haste + crit for OH, makes it a clear winner. For your level of gear, I'd even consider potency over executioner OH.
I also highly doubt you can keep up HS on every mainhand swing, I have nearly 2200 AP and 33.5% unbuffed crit and I barely can.
Well your logic makes sense but while you can say Str > Crit, what is the ratio between them? Str adds to all attacks, and crit also applies to all attacks in the long run. The only good way to do that is figure out is using the averages. If 1% crit(22 rating) adds ~16 dps and 22 Str adds ~16 dps is either wrong?
Also I wasnt claiming that I can keep HS on every MH, which I cant. But that is when +crit takes a dip in usefulness as that is the cap of the what you can apply Impale to.
Look at the Mongoose/Executioner thread. Double Executioner not stacking doesnt make it suck, and I still have yet to see anyone have any other reason why it worse than Ex/Mongoose. It may not be better, but its at least as good and much more consistent. Mongoose offhand uptime is ~25%, compared to the extra 15-20% Executioner is up. If there was that big a difference you would be promoting double mongoose. I think a lot of people just saw the fact that it doesnt stack and assumed it wasnt useful rather than actually looking at what it does for you.
At your level of gear, str is by far better than crit. With MotW, BoK, LotP, Stone on offhand, mongoose up, you should have close to 45% crit, adding another 1% crit isn't nearly as much of a dps increase as adding more AP, which makes ALL of your attacks do more damage.
See, this makes a lot of sense, but it can still be quite variable. In my guild, we rarely have a feral in the dps group - it's much more likely to be shaman/warrior/rogue/rogue/rogue, or maybe 2 warriors and 2 rogues (we happen to have a lot of dps warriors and not many roguesin the guild, so often take 2 to raids even though it's not perfectly optimal). We do normally have a feral tank in our raids, but he's generally in the tank group rather than the dps group, or sometimes with the hunters. That means that already I'm running with 5% less crit than possible. Also, in these post-executioner days, I only have one mongoose (Offhand), so my mongoose uptime is dramatically lower - I can't assume I'll have it up the majority of the time. I have about 33% unbuffed crit in zerkerm which might sound like a lot, but even with MotW, BoK, and buffstone I'm looking at around 35-36% or so I think (a while since I last checked). This makes crit a fair bit better than it would be if I did have 45%, and means my flurry uptime is lower than I'd like. Maybe the solution is put our feral in the dps group when we can, but then that means a rogue/warrior missing out on WF+SoE (and BS, in the case of the rogue).
As I gear up in BT and Hyjal (which we should be starting this week), I'm guessing that my crit will raise enough that I can spend most of my sockets on strength, but at this gear level crit seems like a very valuable stat.
As has been stated before, I don't think there is a "right" way to socket your gear. It is there to give gear versatility and that's exactly what you should be when socketing your gear: versatile. There's a lot of factors that have been mentioned like your group setup, current gear level, spec, etc. that should all go into consideration when picking you gems: it's a very case by case deal.
As has been stated before, I don't think there is a "right" way to socket your gear. It is there to give gear versatility and that's exactly what you should be when socketing your gear: versatile. There's a lot of factors that have been mentioned like your group setup, current gear level, spec, etc. that should all go into consideration when picking you gems: it's a very case by case deal.
Yeah, I think the whole "Socket Bold Crimson Spinels or bust" mindset is a bit silly. For example, right now I have 27.11% crit in battle stance. 2.26% (50 crit rating) is from sockets and socket bonuses. If I socketed all Bold Crimson Spinels I would be at 24.85% crit in battle. I don't even have some pieces of gear yet that I want that are lacking crit compared to what I have (Cataclysm's Edge, Onslaught chest, Dreadboots if I were to socket +10 str). I would probably be sitting a bit above 20 crit in battle if I socketed that way.
Not to mention the availability of Crimson Spinels, in my guild you'll be waiting several weeks before you got the ones you need for your item.
I usually socket like this:
1) Meta Gem bonus - 2 blue, 2 red, 2 yellow
2) Gem Availability - Basically, I'm probably never going to attempt to get a Bold Crimson Spinel. I'm happy enough with Pyrestones.
3) Socket bonus - That is, if a socket bonus is +3 stamina like in [Furious Shackles], yes I would consider putting a Bold Crimson Spinel in it. A lot of items have a +3 or +4 crit rating socket bonus with yellow socket(s). I will pretty much almost always put a Pyrestone in over a Bold Crimson Spinel to get the socket bonus. I honestly don't know if losing +8/+9 crit rating is worth it to gain 5 strength and frankly I think the people that say "1 crit rating is worth 1.35 strength" or any arbitrary number are talking out of their asses. The only socket bonus I intend on breaking is possibly Furious Shackles and the Onslaught chest because I already have 2 blue sockets so it isn't worth the sacrifice for the +4 crit rating socket bonus, the upside is I can always re-socket if a nice belt or shoulders come around in Sunwell without a blue socket.
4) Stat Balance, If I'm lacking crit or my AP is pathetic, I will probably lean towards that stat.
A page or two ago I proposed a crit 'obsessed' gearing using the [nerfed] Flurry as possible salvation for the Fury tree.
Perhaps the whole picture wasn't in view. Reading the current page's insights, I'm reminded of a Vashj downing in particular. I was considering self-gearing, and not fully placing oneself inside the raid makeup.
I was specced 0/41/20 if I recall, and was fortunate enough to be in the melee group with the enh sham. I remember sustaining 4.2k AP and peaking around 5k with procs. What really stood out on these attempts was WF totem procs. With such an investment of AP, these procs were hitting like semi's (Optimus Prime) into a Smart Tower (I hate those dinky cars). At a time when my dps set was all heroics with just 2 SSC items (Dragonstrike/Red Belt), I was still punching ~1800 reg BTs.
As was pointed out, if you can rely on getting LotP for raids, perhaps crit can be eased. But what I'm getting at is this: just how valuable IS Flurry.. when you're proccing WF left and right? The whole point of Flurry is to squeeze more attacks in- a Warrior's SnD if you will. WF does the same thing: x+1 attacks in a normal x attack timeframe. (WF = 6/5, Flurry = 4/3). The mechanics are slightly different, as WF incorporates full MH value + bonus AP for the proc, whereas Flurry hastens [nerfed] OH dmg for some of the swings.
Interesting blue post, in all the class forums. I wonder what will become of the feedback and if they will really take the time to accurately collect and analyze all of the feedback. They are sure to get 1000s of responses.
No link to your armory so we can't see your gear/gems/enchants. But for that much crit as 17-44, how much attack power do you have?
Sorry, this is a late response. For armory just type in Cruorr and only 2 people come up myself and a cow, if its not down, that is. I am currently 33/28, because its better for the guild and I can still to really high dps in that build, but yes I can hit 37-38% crit with 2100~ atp in zerker stance totally unbuffed as 17-44. Illidari shatter Helm, choker of endless nightmares, midnight chestguard, T6 shoulders/gloves, Endless rage legs, Shadowmoon destroyers drape, deadly cuffs, Tsunami tailisman etc etc. I have about every 1h weapon there is thats good for a human warrior, minus WG.
I really disagree with people who gem all str or go for high str items only. I still use mongoose on all my weapons, and the results have been excellent. I love crit. Even with 33/28 I am often hitting 50% crit on bosses and it makes for great dps. Flurry almost never drops, and several Insane str pot/deathwish crits in a row is a thing of beauty.
The whole point of Flurry is to squeeze more attacks in- a Warrior's SnD if you will. WF does the same thing: x+1 attacks in a normal x attack timeframe. (WF = 6/5, Flurry = 4/3). The mechanics are slightly different, as WF incorporates full MH value + bonus AP for the proc, whereas Flurry hastens [nerfed] OH dmg for some of the swings.
That may be the whole point of flurry, but flurry is not the whole point of crit. Remember that in terms of flurry uptime +crit has diminishing returns. This is one reason that high crit is not a requirement, and going for high str also works, the flurry difference between 30% and 35-40% isnt a whole lot, its more about the double damage.
Well strength also does nothing for executes, while crit and -armor do. This may be why crit exceeds str at higher gear levels. From 20-0% the only special we run is execute, but for some reason no one ever mentions how str does nothing for that part of our DPS cycles.
Speaking as a 33/28 warrior, I'm putting a lot more value in crit lately, after having some nights in Hyjal where I would watch streaks of noncrits go by and watch my dps plummet. Our dps group is usually rogue/rogue/warrior/warrior/shaman, with the feral druid in the tank group (either dpsing or tanking). Not having LotP is a big difference, and very noticeable in flurry/BF uptime and rage generation with a 2h, even with Windfury. Additionally, of the two warriors, I'm usually the Sapphire bitch, so that's another slot where I lose crit.
The guy who said "every situation is different, you need to look at the whole picture to see what stats you should value" had it right. For an Arms warrior who gets LotP, Tsunami Talisman, etc, Str/AP might be more important. For me, more crit!
Actually, fairly simple maths shows that at decent gear levels, Bloodthirst is more efficient than execute if you ever spike to more than 30rage (which you often will).
But yes that's one of the reasons I love Armour Pen, for scaling my executes a bit more.
Actually, fairly simple maths shows that at decent gear levels, Bloodthirst is more efficient than execute if you ever spike to more than 30rage (which you often will).
But yes that's one of the reasons I love Armour Pen, for scaling my executes a bit more.
This puts me in mind of a question I ran into last week. I'm 17/44 for raids, and using [Dragonstrike][Malchazeen] As my execute weapon combo. Frequently I found myself with the choice of execute at ~20-28 rage, or wait a second or two to bloodthirst. This was especially true during Morogrim. Not sure what the best choice is here for sustained DPS. I was running precision instead of imp execute, so I elected to wait out the rage and use BT whenever it was up, and I came out with fairly high DPS in the end(SWS put me at just a hair under 1300 at the end of moro with one grave. No WWS log that night unfortunately). Just not sure what's optimal here.
edit- Meant to say "precision instead of imp execute", not flurry.
I found a link on wowwiki to a item budget calculator. It says it's for TBC but it doesn't have support for gems. Anyway, I compared Rage's bracers against Lurker's and found a 10-ish level difference which is about right. While I agree that these bracers stink, I think it's more an issue that other bracers are really good. For example, Lurker's bracers are low stamina, have a socket, and split item budget between 3 damage stats.
It's a repeat issue on quite a few DPS items for quite a few DPS classes. Heavy stamina items are simply not good for DPS in a min/max situation.
I picked up a Swiftsteel Bludgeeon to test out fast weapons for execute. I'll be using SSB as MH and S2 OH. I put +7 weapon damage on the SSB and am considering doing the same the for the Merc OH (Potency atm).
My normal weapons are 2.7 and 2.6 so should have some numbers this coming week.
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No WF gimps your rage generation (being swordspecced helps a little) so it will be hard to keep up the rotation.
It would be nice to maybe tell us what kind of rotation you use and maybe post a WWS of one of your raids so we can possibly help you out where you're doing something wrong
Heya mate,
I finally got a WWS My gear is a bit better too, but, it's almost the better gear I can get without 25-man raid boss drops and more arenas.
This puts me in mind of a question I ran into last week. I'm 17/44 for raids, and using [Dragonstrike][Malchazeen] As my execute weapon combo. Frequently I found myself with the choice of execute at ~20-28 rage, or wait a second or two to bloodthirst. This was especially true during Morogrim. Not sure what the best choice is here for sustained DPS. I was running precision instead of imp execute, so I elected to wait out the rage and use BT whenever it was up, and I came out with fairly high DPS in the end(SWS put me at just a hair under 1300 at the end of moro with one grave. No WWS log that night unfortunately). Just not sure what's optimal here.
edit- Meant to say "precision instead of imp execute", not flurry.
If you must wait 1 or 2 seconds for Bloodthirst Rage, Execute is the better choice. At ~3000 Ap Bloodthirst do the samedmg like 30Rage Execute. Bloodthirst is only an option if you get the rage with a burst between your normal executes. If you have 28 rage and wait 1-2Seconds you could have make 2 executes for the one bloodthirst what is simple more dmg, for that i dont need WWS stats, thats simple a fact.
12/05/07, 10:45 PM
My gear is a bit better too, but, it's almost the better gear I can get without 25-man raid boss drops and more arenas.
