Mists of Pandaria: All Specs - Page 20

Berthold · 09/20/12, 10:48 AM

Edit: ok. forget the last couple of posts, had the wrong mastery to block conversion :-/
Edit2: found an error in the Vengeance AP.. we are getting closer :-)

Updated results:

block on CD + barrier for the extra rage
Simulationcraft Results

barrier on CD (without overwriting itself)
Simulationcraft Results

Now, barrier is only a little bit better than block. Feel free to point me to simulation errors.

Napkin math for Shield Block value agrees:

We are avoiding 20%, thus 80% are rolled against block:

w/o SBlock:
We have 30% block with a ~65% critical block chance. of those 30%*65% = 19.5% are critical blocks and reduced by 60% and 30%*(1-65%) 10.5% are normal blocks and reduced by 30%: This means the 80% are reduced by 19.5%*0.6 + 10.5%*0.3 = 0.1485%

with SBlock
We have 100% block with a ~65% critical block chance. of those 65% = 65% are critical blocks and reduced by 60% and (1-65%) =35% are normal blocks and reduced by 30%: This means the 80% are reduced by 65%*0.6 + 35%*0.3 = 0.495%.

Using SBlock therefore reduces our damage taken by 0.495 - 0.1485=, but only the 80% that are actually hit, so all in all, it is a reduction of 27,72%. As we are getting three hits over the 6 seconds, a button push of Shield Block reduces damage taken by 83.16% of a white hit(close but less than Shield Barrier's 100%).

TLDR, Shield Block looks a bit weaker than Shield Barrier.

kopcap · 09/20/12, 7:49 PM

Damage intake under SB is much smoother than SBar see-saw. Re: Theck's blog on this.

Second, your DPS under SB model will be noticeably higher due to higher Enrage and HR. Which is always a factor on progression fights.

This is especially significant on swap fights, where you will be able to take most advantage of SB uptime.

Veev · 09/21/12, 2:35 AM

Originally Posted by Serivola

Blacksmithing>Skinning>Engineering>Tailoring>Enchanting/Leatherworking/Inscription/Alchemy>Jewelcrafting>Herbalism>Mining

Do we have any more confirmation on this? I'm curious how Skinning (480 crit) is going to compare to 320 strength at level 90 stat weights. From what I've seen so far, it places them very close.

Also, Leatherworking apparently gives a 330 strength bonus (while the generic bonus is 320). Sort of annoying to see Blizzard not notice this. And if they designed JC-only gems with the same method they do normal gems, you should be able to get a 640 crit bonus from it instead of just 320.

Berthold · 09/21/12, 2:45 AM

I am also seeing a dps gain when use SBlock, however I am not seeing differences in spikes:

Health timeline for SBar on CD

Health Timeline for Sblock + Extra Rage into SBar

The major spike is the holy priest regenerating mana :-)

I wouldn't say that any is more spikier. Sblock does reduce damage, but SBar can also be cast upfront with 100%health, effectively giving us more health. After rereading Theck's post, I am assuming he is using 60rage SBar, whereas I am using 20-60 rage SBar. This could explain why he is seeing more spike damage than I am.

So you need to decide whether you want to deal ~10% more damage or need ~10% less healing.

Kaljurei · 09/21/12, 4:24 AM

This just in.

Warrior (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)

Mortal Strike now does 165% weapon damage (down from 185%).
Overpower now does 105% weapon damage (down from 120%)
Slam now does 190% weapon damage (down from 215%).
Raging Blow now does 190% weapon damage (down from 215%),
Bloodthirst now does 90% weapon damage (down from 100%).
Wild Strike now does 195% weapon damage (down from 220%).

Chadddada · 09/21/12, 1:44 PM

Just some thoughts on my protection warrior and the pre-raid gear I am going for. With the new active mitigation tanking model you have have the option to spend rage on taking less damage or doing more damage. My obviousness goal as a tank is to take as little damage as possible to keep my healer happy. And to take less damage I am going to be spending rage on Shield Barrier - Spell - World of Warcraft and Shield Block - Spell - World of Warcraft . With this pre-raid gear I am going to make a very conscious choice on how I am going to get my rage.

So how do you get more rage to spend? I see this decision as, do you want to get a hit/exp heavy set or a dodge/parry heavy set. You can look at hit/exp as a defensive stat, because it allows you to gain rage, but is it the best way to gear? If you go hit/exp heavy you are choosing to gain more rage through Shield Slam - Spell - World of Warcraft . The second set, dodge/parry, you would be gaining rage through Revenge - Spell - World of Warcraft .

So I think I am going to gear for dodge/parry and then gem for mastery or hit/exp. The secondary gems are worth double now so I can quickly adjust my gear around, through gems, to stack mastery or hit/exp. In addition I hope to proc revenge more often with this gear and have greater AOE threat. So not only should I have more threat I should be swimming in rage to spend on shield block/barrier.

My avoidance set to build:

Helm: Helm of Rising Flame - Item - World of Warcraft (Scarlet Monastery)
Neck: Armsmaster's Sealed Locket - Item - World of Warcraft (Scarlet Halls)
Shoulders: Spaulders of Immovable Stone - Item - World of Warcraft (Siege of Nivzao Temple)
Cloak: Soulrender Greatcloak - Item - World of Warcraft (Scarlet Monastery)
Chest: Canine Commander's Breastplate - Item - World of Warcraft (Scarlet Halls)
Wrists: Bubble-Breaker Bracers - Item - World of Warcraft (Stormstout Brewery)
Gloves: Gauntlets of Resolute Fury - Item - World of Warcraft (Shado-Pan Monastery)
Belt: Sparkbreath Girdle - Item - World of Warcraft (Shado-Pan Monastery)
Legs: Sap-Encrusted Legplates - Item - World of Warcraft (Siege of Nivzao Temple)
Boots: Wraithplate Treads - Item - World of Warcraft (Scholomance)
Ring 1: Lime-Rimmed Signet - Item - World of Warcraft (Stormstout Brewery)
Ring 2: Crystallized Droplet - Item - World of Warcraft (Temple of the Jade Serpent)
Trinket 1: Iron Protector Talisman - Item - World of Warcraft (Mogu’shan Palace)
Trinket 2: Heart of Fire - Item - World of Warcraft (Shado-Pan Monastery)
Weapon: Ook's Hozen Slicer - Item - World of Warcraft (Stormstout Brewery)
Shield: Shield of Blind Hate - Item - World of Warcraft (Shado-Pan Monastery)

tzuisc · 09/22/12, 5:18 AM

Warrior (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)

Mortal Strike now does 165% weapon damage (down from 185%).
Overpower now does 105% weapon damage (down from 120%)
Slam now does 190% weapon damage (down from 215%).
Raging Blow now does 190% weapon damage (down from 215%),
Bloodthirst now does 90% weapon damage (down from 100%).
Wild Strike now does 195% weapon damage (down from 220%).

i have 2x hand of morchok hc

how can i calc correct wild strike vs heroic strike dpr with 2p bonus (-5 rage hs)?

i think, after this nerf, hs (25 rage) have now better dpr than ws (30 rage) for smf

cuppicake · 09/22/12, 3:36 PM

Originally Posted by tzuisc

Warrior (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)

Mortal Strike now does 165% weapon damage (down from 185%).
Overpower now does 105% weapon damage (down from 120%)
Slam now does 190% weapon damage (down from 215%).
Raging Blow now does 190% weapon damage (down from 215%),
Bloodthirst now does 90% weapon damage (down from 100%).
Wild Strike now does 195% weapon damage (down from 220%).

i have 2x hand of morchok hc

how can i calc correct wild strike vs heroic strike dpr with 4p bonus?

i think, after this nerf, hs (25 rage) have now better dpr than ws (30 rage) for smf

I believe the Glyph of Raging Wind (10% WW dmg granted by uses of RB) will be superior. Even without the glyph, I think WW is more DPR than both WS and HS. Obviously HS is on a different CD, so its usage varies by your CS CD.

I apologize for not speaking to your 4pc question, I've really only looked at the data from a standpoint of MOP gearing/level 90.

Tilhaa · 09/23/12, 4:28 AM

Hi, about protection warrior,

Does anyone know how to scale dodge/parade and if you still need to grab a lot of mastery since it gives you much less bloc ? As it changed, we are know around 10-12% dodge for 25-27% parade, 27-28% bloc and we can forget about our 102.4 CTC cap...

I don't even know if you can benefit from getting more dodge to the detriment of parade.

Is there a new cap to obtain with those stats or something ?

Thank you guys if you took the time to check and share with us.

Xaerran · 09/23/12, 8:52 PM

I am reviewing simcrafts and I dont see Skull Banner in the rotation (nor do I see the buff) for the 14N and 14H. Were these omitted on purpose?

Glurak · 09/24/12, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by Tilhaa

Hi, about protection warrior,

Does anyone know how to scale dodge/parade and if you still need to grab a lot of mastery since it gives you much less bloc ? As it changed, we are know around 10-12% dodge for 25-27% parade, 27-28% bloc and we can forget about our 102.4 CTC cap...

I don't even know if you can benefit from getting more dodge to the detriment of parade.

Is there a new cap to obtain with those stats or something ?

Thank you guys if you took the time to check and share with us.

Parry Doge ratio shoul be 3:1 ans Mastery > all. Because Crit block will go extremly up with it. More Crit block = more rage, With Shild block together it will you give much much rage what you need to use shild block and shield barrier often

Dots · 09/24/12, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by Xaerran

I am reviewing simcrafts and I dont see Skull Banner in the rotation (nor do I see the buff) for the 14N and 14H. Were these omitted on purpose?

Yes. It's a raid cooldown like Bloodlust, so it should be handled as such. Either all classes use it or none.

Muspel · 09/24/12, 7:41 PM

Originally Posted by Berthold

I wouldn't say that any is more spikier. Sblock does reduce damage, but SBar can also be cast upfront with 100%health, effectively giving us more health.

Shield Block is also effective health, although only versus blockable melee attacks. EH is defined as anything that's not RNG-based, and a 100% block chance absolutely qualifies.

Charybdis · 09/26/12, 8:11 PM

Originally Posted by Berthold

I am also seeing a dps gain when use SBlock, however I am not seeing differences in spikes:

The major spike is the holy priest regenerating mana :-)

I wouldn't say that any is more spikier. Sblock does reduce damage, but SBar can also be cast upfront with 100%health, effectively giving us more health. After rereading Theck's post, I am assuming he is using 60rage SBar, whereas I am using 20-60 rage SBar. This could explain why he is seeing more spike damage than I am.

So you need to decide whether you want to deal ~10% more damage or need ~10% less healing.

Theck confirmed he was using 60 rage SBar. L90 Warrior Mitigation Followup | Sacred Duty at the bottom in the comments, and that he'd expect the use of 20-60 rage SBar to reduce spikiness by covering the previous downtimes but hadn't thought to implement the logic to cast at lower than 60.

Kowabunga · 09/28/12, 10:45 PM

Hey there guys I am looking at fury and I must be confused but how is dual wielding 2 handers a decrease in DPS compared to dual 1 handers?

Sorry noob question :/