Fury 4.3 BiS - Page 8

Elvinar · 12/28/11, 2:04 PM

I am testing Gur'talak OH last night, and it's proc from BT.

Proc from BT - YouTube

P.S. Russian server.

Tengarez · 12/29/11, 8:59 PM

Originally Posted by Elvinar

I am testing Gur'talak OH last night, and it's proc from BT.

Proc from BT - YouTube

P.S. Russian server.

That is interesting. The question remains though, is the proc rate lower for the offhand?

Have you seen it proc from slam yet? Or only bloodthirst?

Datachanger · 12/29/11, 11:55 PM

I've tested slam 650+ times, thats about 7.7% chance for it to NOT proc.
I think it is safe to say that slam will not proc Gurthalak when it is in the OH.

Zimeron · 12/30/11, 8:44 AM

Someone posted testing they had done of Gurthalak in the OH already to the SimC issue site. Issue 985 - simulationcraft - Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps - World of Warcraft DPS Simulator - Google Project Hosting

Another finding: My post considering Gurth in the offhand and will main-hand hits proc it. It is correct, but because I was using a weapon-based attack. Melee attacks that are -NOT- weapon-based, such as bloodthirst, -CAN- still proc a tentacle, regardless of what hand it is in, as long as Gurthalak is equipped.

So assuming random weapon in mainhand, gurth in offhand.

Bloodthirst? Yes.
Heroic Strike? Yes.
Cleave? Yes.
Slam? No.
Raging Blow? Offhand hit can proc it, main hand can't.
Whirlwind? Same as Raging Blow. 1 roll per offhand hit, can proc multiple times from the same ability if it hits multiple times.
Colossus Smash? No.
Thunder Clap? Yes.
Heroic Leap? Yes.

Datachanger · 12/30/11, 5:34 PM

Thank you very much for that.
It makes sense.

In that thread, nowhere does it definitively say that it is better to have a RF Gurthalak in the Main Hand with a 397 OH, vs the other way around. That is the whole point of contention.

epurator · 01/02/12, 2:49 AM

Originally Posted by landsoul

BiS TG 57279.77 DPS Ultraxion 5m40s profile +Mastery Boost 200% BS/JC

head: T13H
neck: Necklace of Black Dragon's Teeth
shoulder: Backbreaker Spaulders H (Mstry->Hit)
back: Valor
chest: T13H (Mstry->Crit)
wrist: Rockhide Bracers H (Mstry->Hit)
hands: T13H
waist: Runescriven Demon Collar H (Mstry->Hit)
legs: T13H (Mstry->Crit)
feet: Treads of Cursed Flesh H (Mstry->Hit)
r1: Breathstealer Band H (Mstry->Hit)
r2: Curled Twilight Claw (Mstry->Exp)
t1: Eye of Unmaking
t2: Creche of the Final Dragon
MH: Gurthalak H
OH: Cudgel of the Warmaster H (Haste->Hit)
th: Valor (Exp->Hit)

I was wondering, why the OH is Cudgel of the Warmaster H (Haste->Hit) and not the Gurthalak H
? I would like have some explanation please.

reichardt · 01/02/12, 4:13 AM

Originally Posted by epurator

I was wondering, why the OH is Cudgel of the Warmaster H (Haste->Hit) and not the Gurthalak H
? I would like have some explanation please.

Because Gurthalak's behavior when wielded in the off-hand has not been properly tested yet. Until known 100% how it works when wielded in the off-hand, it can't be compared to a weapon with static stats like Cudgel of the Warmaster

landsoul · 01/02/12, 4:04 PM

Originally Posted by reichardt

Because Gurthalak's behavior when wielded in the off-hand has not been properly tested yet. Until known 100% how it works when wielded in the off-hand, it can't be compared to a weapon with static stats like Cudgel of the Warmaster

Dual-wielding behavior must be tested extensively until a conclusion can be made.

The additional proc rate, strength, and weapon damage must outweigh the haste, hit , and crit that would come from the Cudgel.

Henqetnetjer · 01/04/12, 10:21 PM

Decided to do a bit of my own testing.
Working on the Raider's Training Dummy in Org.

No buffs. No cds other than Inner Rage (macro'd to HS for me) and CS on cd.
Only working with BT, HS, RB, and Slam.

Tried to stick to a pretty strict gcd locked rotation. Tried to make it the same across the three attempts though I am aware there will be some player error involved here.

Each of these "Tests" was run at as close to 5 minutes as I could manage via a stopwatch on the phone.

CompareBot! - RaidBots - Web Tools for WoW Nerds
That is the compare bot. Hopefully it is labeled well enough for anyone who would like to take a closer look at things but just in case.

TOO : Tentacle of the Old Ones

Test #1 (MH = (r) Gurth, OH = (lfr) Gurth)
Total dmg : 7,028,317
TOO dmg : 1,722,035

Test #2 (MH = (r) Gurth, OH = (r) Atraxis (haste forged to hit))
Total dmg : 6,022,816
TOO dmg : 861,085

Test #3 (MH = (lfr) Gurth, OH = (r) Gurth)
Total dmg : 6,552,180
TOO dmg : 1,331,715

Conclusion : According to the numbers I got back, (r) Gurth in the MH and (lfr) Gurth in the OH beats out the other possible combinations. By quite a bit as well. The second Gurth added about a million dmg over the combination with Atraxis involved even with the increased hit, haste and crit. Also the combination with adding the lfr Gurth to the MH, though it was just a random experiment, proved not to be better than the (r) version in the MH, but that could have probably be assumed.

I realize this is an incredibly small subset and that my ability to press buttons moar harder, or at the correct times, could skew these numbers. But perhaps this is a bit useful for anyone out there who is unsure how to come up with their own calculations and would like to just see the raw output from comparebot.

Thanks to LS and everyone else who has provided me with a great deal of useful information over the past few months, as I just recently started ms dps'ing raids (used to tank).

Zimeron · 01/04/12, 11:55 PM

I've updated SimC's modeling of Gurthalak to the following:
-Allow for up to 10 spawns at once (this is overkill, as over 10k iterations only 6 were up at once)
-Weapon based attacks require the sword to be in that slot. E.G. CS only procs from the MH, WW MH attack procs the MH and OH procs the OH, etc.
-Exceptions to the above are BT, HS, TC, and Cleave, which proc the weapon from either the MH or OH

This implementation is based off findings from various EJ threads as well as the open SimC issue, but specifically this comment here: Issue 985 - simulationcraft - Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps - World of Warcraft DPS Simulator - Google Project Hosting

Updating the implementation increased our T13H Fury profile by around 1500 dps, showing that Gurth is perfectly viable in the OH. It should appear in the auto sims in a few hours. Simulationcraft Results. In addition the fixes allow for a Souldrinker in the OH to proc from BT, HS, TC, and Cleave as well, so the SMF profile will see an increase as well.

Currently these changes are only in SVN, but we should have a new release "soon." (Probably Friday.)

[e] Apparently Execute and Heroic Leap also trigger the weapon from either slot, this will be updated soon.

ckarrloz · 01/05/12, 1:15 AM

Not sure how much this changes things but Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps had its proc time upped by 2 seconds to 12

Edit: it'll change once 4.3.2 is out

reichardt · 01/05/12, 1:45 PM

Originally Posted by ckarrloz

Not sure how much this changes things but Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps had its proc time upped by 2 seconds to 12

Edit: it'll change once 4.3.2 is out

It will either make it better, or stay the same.

Depends if the 2 extra seconds adds an additional tick from the tentacle.
Or they increase the time between ticks.

Sinnermighty · 01/05/12, 6:12 PM

Originally Posted by reichardt

It will either make it better, or stay the same.

Depends if the 2 extra seconds adds an additional tick from the tentacle.
Or they increase the time between ticks.

We changed the duration of Gurthalak’s proc some time ago. The 4.3.2 tooltip change simply acknowledges this fix. The weapon’s damage should not change in 4.3.2.

Source: Gurth: Far more broken in pvp/pve than DWTR - Forums - World of Warcraft

So no change to Gurthalak in 4.3.2.

Rallik · 01/06/12, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by Zimeron

I've updated SimC's modeling of Gurthalak to the following:
-Allow for up to 10 spawns at once (this is overkill, as over 10k iterations only 6 were up at once)
-Weapon based attacks require the sword to be in that slot. E.G. CS only procs from the MH, WW MH attack procs the MH and OH procs the OH, etc.
-Exceptions to the above are BT, HS, TC, and Cleave, which proc the weapon from either the MH or OH

This implementation is based off findings from various EJ threads as well as the open SimC issue, but specifically this comment here: Issue 985 - simulationcraft - Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps - World of Warcraft DPS Simulator - Google Project Hosting

Updating the implementation increased our T13H Fury profile by around 1500 dps, showing that Gurth is perfectly viable in the OH. It should appear in the auto sims in a few hours. Simulationcraft Results. In addition the fixes allow for a Souldrinker in the OH to proc from BT, HS, TC, and Cleave as well, so the SMF profile will see an increase as well.

Currently these changes are only in SVN, but we should have a new release "soon." (Probably Friday.)

[e] Apparently Execute and Heroic Leap also trigger the weapon from either slot, this will be updated soon.

That post you're referring to is speculation based on BT being able to proc an OH Gurthalak, which occurs for unknown reasons. BT is still a MH attack even if it doesn't use weapon damage in its damage calculation, as are HS, Cleave, and Execute. Its ability to proc a Gurthalak in either hand should not imply that every other AP based attack will behave in a similarly broken fashion. Behavior that I'm confident of is as follows:
BT and Heroic Leap can proc Gurthalak in either hand.
RB MH hits can proc the MH, and OH hits the OH.
MH auto attacks can proc the MH, and OH hits the OH.
WW MH hits can proc the MH, OH hits can not proc the OH.
Slam, CS, Execute, Cleave, and HS can only proc the MH.

Zimeron · 01/06/12, 8:46 AM

Originally Posted by Rallik

...
Its ability to proc a Gurthalak in either hand should not imply that every other AP based attack will behave in a similarly broken fashion.
...
WW MH hits can proc the MH, OH hits can not proc the OH.
Execute, Cleave, and HS can only proc the MH.

All the conclusions are results of that person's testing, nothing is based on assumptions. Either way, the attacks I quoted need more testing then, as it's now a he said, she said argument.

[e] There's also a post in Landsoul's spreadsheet thread with someone claiming BT doesn't proc the OH, which has been tested by a few people already.