Taliafears

I've put together a kind of gear spreadsheet for tanking warriors and thought I'd share it.

I use an armor equivalence points (AEP) system to score items. All values are fully adjustable to suit your needs, but I arrived at the numbers in the chart fairly rigorously.

It takes care of all your gemming for you at any quality level. It analyzes the value of the socket bonus and decides whether you should stack your best gem (usually full +stam) or try to get the socket bonus. There is a threshold you can adjust in case you like to meet socket bonuses when the decision is close. If the socket bonus is worth getting, it also calculates the best gems to place in each slot based on the stat weights.

It has a fitting room where you can try on gear and have it predict all kinds of stats (buffed or unbuffed) like your average damage taken per second, your average TPS, etc etc. Use the options tab to indicate your relevant talent choices.

I'd love for some folks here to take a whack at it and let me know what I should fix.

Currently the sheet is being upgraded for the pre-WotLK patch 3.0. When the expansion is released I'll begin adding new gear; for now just making the sheet accurate for Burning Crusade under 3.0.

http://www.mythgaming.net/wow/armorwarr20081027.xls

ALTERNATE LINK - Savefile.com
Last Updated: Oct 27, 2008

 

Tylerlee

dead link

 

Taliafears

Strange.. works when I click it.

I added a savefile.com link to the opening post, in case anyone else is having trouble with my mythgaming.net server.

 

Meyla

Working for me. Nice thing.

 

Edimus

Nice spreadsheet. Few things I've noticed you are missing:

Trinket: Commander's Badge

Commander's Badge - Items - World of Warcraft

Buff:

Leader of the Pack

Cape Ench:

+120 Armor

Hand Ench:

+8 Sta Kit

Consumables:

Flask of Fortification

Also, are we to assume that this does not account for talent specs? I've noticed that my health was way off, and I'm guessing that the missing HP is from the 10% Str and 5% Sta talent? Would be a nice addition to have this accounted for, at least an option for whether you have selected the talent or not.

Just checked out the options page. Nevermind on the talents thing.

The health seems to be off. I'm missing almost 600 HP on my sheet.

 

Tylerlee

Firefox can't find the server at MWC06 - News.

Thats what i get.

Tried in both my browsers :S

 

Taliafears

The reason the sheet predicts 600 less HP for you is because you are stacking solid stars in every slot. The sheet recommends a more balanced approach, stacking solid stars only in items with crappy socket bonuses. You can adjust that behavior by changing the threshold in the Options tab to a negative number, or by adjusting the value of dodge/def/parry/agility down below stamina.

I realize the stam/avoidance debate has valid points on both sides, I just went with the numbers I derived - which were aimed at max survivability between heals. This is because in the content I run, the only time I die is when healers are silenced, killed, or moving to avoid an AoE. Your mileage may vary, but that's why the weights are adjustable.

 

Xerophyte

Nice work! I don't precisely agree with the weightings but that's why I can easily edit them after all.

Anyhoo, small issues:
- [Destroyer Legguards] appear to have had their socket eaten
- [Darkmoon Card: Madness] and [Belt of the Guardian] are missing. I'm guessing a few of the good +spell damage tanking items from BT are out as well, didn't specifically check. I realise that most people don't wear these things and have decent belts with no caster stats, but some of us are more hated by the Loot Gods than others.
- The "Ign" column doesn't appear to update correctly when altering the weightings, at least in OO. Image:

The StaBonus, SockBonus & Final columns have updated as they should with my prefered weightings, but the socket ignore setting has not. This may well be working as intended or a bug in OO, I don't rightly know.

Edit: I should add that the last line on that screenie is the red socket for T5 legs that I added myself, it still doesn't behave as I imagine it should.
Edit 2: Gah, nevermind. I didn't realise Socket Bonus Threshold defaulted to a non-zero value. It feels a bit unintuitive, but that may just be me 'course.

 

Taliafears

Yeah, I have the threshold set to 20.. that's my baggage, seeing greyed out numbers just irks me unless absolutely necessary.

I didn't add madness because if you're gonna spend a ton of money in the AH, you may as well get vengeance for the threat. I suppose you could get both and have 102 stamina.

Paly gear I didn't add because I don't want to clutter up the list. The more "junk" data is there, the harder it is to skim over and look for loot you really want. It's true there is a big gear gap for warrior tanking belts, but when 2.3 hits we are all gonna have access to iron-tusk anyway. It's worth thinking about.. maybe I could make a sheet full of "alternate" gear, that you could still select in the fitting room?

I uploaded a new version with T5 legs fixed, and the enchants/buffs Edimus listed. Couple of other bug fixes I found too.

 

Taliafears

Come to think of it, as a Tauren warrior could you tell me about the health bonus?

I implemented it as a 1.05 HP multiplier after all health sources. Is that the way it works? When you get fortitude, is it 5% better because you're a Tauren? When you drink an elixir of fortitude does it work 5% better than the rest of us?

 

Xerophyte

Your implementation is entirely correct, that's how it works. I get 525 health from a Flask of Fortitude, you get 500. I can't think of any effect that's somehow applied after my multiplier.

 

Meyla

Few things are missing:

- ZG enchant for head
- [Pendant of Titans]
- [The Unbreakable Will]
- as stated above +8sta kit for gloves is still missing

Should be all I think, keep up good work!

 

Derrewyn

Very nice spreadsheet, I think it was quite a lot of work.

And now my notice:

The AEP values for Block is way too low. Running Karazhan block is not that significant, but later it is important to have a healthy amount of block chance as a warrior with shield.

The 19 AEP for dodge compared to the 2 AEP for block is far from reality in my opinion. The reason why you could have this result is the lack of block value, as you have more and more of it, block becomes better.

Just a few numbers

19 AEP for a dodge rating means that 1% of dodge is 19*18,9=359,1 AP
2 AEP for a block rating means that 1% of dodge is 2*7,9=15,8 AP

359,1/15,8=22,73

So 1% of dodge worths 22,73% of block?

6k hits from a boss, 100 hits
you dodge one, that's 6k less incoming damage.
you block 22,73 for an average amount of 600, that's 13,6k less incoming damage.

And there are also crushings removed by block, quite a lot of burst damage can be mitigated by some bosses via basic block even if you spam shield block.

 

Taliafears

I don't particularly want to argue about math in this thread, you can adjust the weights as you see fit. However, I was assuming Shield Block, so that's why Blk came out to a ridiculously low value. I ran my algorithm with boss speeds ranging from 1.25 attacks/sec to .5 attacks/sec and Blk regularly came out with a dismal AEP. I can't recall if Blk was cutting into crushes at that point; I may run the numbers again but I doubt I'd come up with anything larger than 5.

The big reason to increase Blk's weight is to achieve crush immunity without Shield Block. This spreadsheet is already your most useful tool for that goal (get your dodge/parry/miss/block to 100% in the fitting room). You will not want to sacrifice very many other stats, so the low weight is still helpful, in my opinion.

I uploaded a new version of the sheet with the necklace and weapon, and more enchants. I just skipped the +8 stamina kit in favor of +10 since it is coming in 2.3 and trainable by any Leatherworker.

 

Taliafears

Forgot to mention, since agility is a simple hybrid of dodge/armor/crit, I changed the weight for agility to derive from those other weights as a formula. You should never have to update the weight for agility yourself.

 

AniwenofLothar

of those 100 hits, 80 of them should have shield block up. (edit: which, for clarity, pushes block to 100%, making any block rating over 25%, or 0% depending on your school of thought, not utilized) - it should be 100/100, but between parries, latency and slightly more than 2 hits every 5 seconds, you're bound to let a few through)
So 22.73% of 20 hits, is about 4 hits. 600 SBV (which is pretty high) x4 = 2400 damage.

so yeah, I'd say SBR is a bit over-valued, you might want to lower it a bit more.

"Such ... is the state of life, that none are happy but by the anticipation of change; the change itself is nothing; when we have made it, the next wish is to change again."

 

AniwenofLothar

After looking at the values you've placed on things, I dunno but I just can't agree with most of them.

My point of view is this. What is going to keep me alive 1% longer?

1% dodge = 1% more life = 1% parry = 0.33%dodge/parry/miss
Block value, I assume a 5k hit with a 60% block chance so about 80 block value = 1% mitigation.
Also, about 285 armor = 1% mitigation.

so...
285 armor = 18.9 dodge rating = 20.08 defence rating = 31.5 parry rating = 25 agility = 80 block value = (raise or lower as you need) 17 stamina.

so... convert those in to reasonable numbers... (divide 100 by them)
dodge = 5.29
defence = 4.98
Parry = 3.17
Agility = 4.00
Blockvalue = 1.43
Stamina = 5.88
Armor = 0.35

You can add or subtract your own personal values on threat production (crit, attack power, shield slam damage)

I personally place no value on block rating, and any i pick up is purely coincidental of it being on items i otherwise like.

None the less, this is a great collection of information, and thanks tonnes for working on it AND making it possible for me to insert my own values

"Such ... is the state of life, that none are happy but by the anticipation of change; the change itself is nothing; when we have made it, the next wish is to change again."

 

Taliafears

My analysis was a little more sophisticated. I analyzed time-to-live with a full health bar on a range of different boss strengths/speeds, and a range of gear levels for the warrior. I accounted for shield block uptime, crushes, block value, etc. Even so, your numbers aren't that far off from mine. Multiply them all by 3 (and round off) and you get:

armor 1
defense 15
dodge 16
parry 10
agi 12
BV 4
sta 17

Those are not that far off, but you're probably undervaluing the role of avoidance in maintaining Shield Block uptime. A dodge or parry does not use up a Shield Block charge.

In general, I found that the relationship between armor and stamina is constantly 1:18, no matter the boss or the gear level. This is because they both scale the same way. From there, the value of avoidance stats scale up as your gear scales up. By the time you reach a full purple karazhan set, dodge is worth about 23.

I left avoidance stats capped at their current value because I think stacking armor & stamina is more important in the long run. The time-to-live analysis often breaks down when you're MT on a real boss, since you're getting overhealed like crazy, and you just need to survive the unlucky avoidance spikes.

 

gia

I'm not gonna challenge your math, because well, mine is worse. But the AEP on block value feels a bit low, is the threat portion of it taken into consideration? Some items that I would have chosen because of block value are rated lower than others I thought were inferior (ex: maiden gloves vs T4). Is it really so much worse than dodge/parry rating?

Still, great job on the spreadsheet, I found it very useful for tweaking my gear in preparation for ZA.

 

Taliafears

Block Value is very highly variable based on the boss. A fight like Prince that hits fast & relatively soft will get more mileage out of block value (8ish for mitigation), whereas the later growths of Gruul it's just plain insignificant. On average it's worth about 4 points for mitigation purposes. I like to keep it at 8 because of the threat, especially since I start fights with Shield Slam; it's got to hold up to all the mages and their intro fireballs.

Remember that block value is cheaper in blizzard's budget than a point of dodge/def/parry rating, so those 8 points will go a bit further.

 

• frmorrison

I think you are undervaluing expertise, you don't just get more attacks in, but you get burst protection (less parry hasted attacks). I would rate it at 14 (you have it at 12) AEP.


Minor correction, the ZA shield Bulwark of the Amani Empire comes from Jan'alai.

 

Taliafears

I tend to agree on Expertise.. I was wary of going overboard with its value as I haven't done the math on how much it will help to avoid getting parried. But it is twice as good as hit rating so 2 more points for the mitigation sounds reasonable. I'm still accumulating minor changes so I'll just have that in my next release.

 

Borodin

Great work, just started looking at it so will report any minor gripes I find...

I noticed a minor issues in the comment about Crush Immunity: to be precise you need 102.4% dodge/parry/miss/block to achieve passive Crush Immunity v. L73 Boss.

Playing with the Fitting Room I note that Enchant Cloak: 120 Armour is missing.

 

Taliafears

If you're looking at the fitting room, you need 100% for crush immunity. It already assumes you're fighting a boss and takes the level difference into account. A small fudge zone wouldn't hurt, though.

Uploading a new version, all minor changes.

 

Lemmingherder

Speaking of expertise, has anyone done any testing to figure out the cap where you can no longer be parried on boss mobs? Digging through a bunch of my WWS's, it appears that anywhere from 10-15% of my attacks against bosses are parried.