The Protection Guide - Page 45

Zene · 03/25/08, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Beo

"Dragonscale-Encrusted Longblade" from Kalecgos in Sunwell with
+36 Stamina
108 DPS
1,5 speed
25 haste rating
21 expertise rating

If you can manage without the defense, why not? The increased DPS of the weapon as well as your human expertise racial bonus will clearly make it a better TPS weapon than [The Brutalizer]. Another thing to note is that the [Dragonscale-Encrusted Longblade] is slightly faster, which will of course mean faster heroic strikes which will also help generate more threat, assuming you have the rage to spam them.

Meyla · 03/25/08, 2:17 PM

Till there is not much to talk about, what do you think about such set:

Helmet: [Crown of Dath'Remar]
Neck: [Collar of the Pit Lord]
Shoulder: [Pauldrons of Perseverance]
Cloak: [Crimson Paragon's Cover]
Breastplate: [Breastplate of Agony's Aversion]
Wrist: [Onslaught Wristguards]
Gloves: [Onslaught Handguards]
Belt: [Onslaught Waistguard]
Leggins: [Felstrength Legplates]
Boots: [Onslaught Boots]
Ranged Weapon: [Rifle of the Stoic Guardian]
Weapon: [Dragonscale-Encrusted Longblade]
Shield: [Bulwark of Azzinoth]

Superior stamina, expertise, set bonus from 4 pieces of T6, similar dodge/parry/block to typical tank set (Faceplate+4/5 T6, exaclly the same, the avoidance one, as posted by Quigon at 1st page). Well Im just curious what do you think about it, of course it's not a set for ALL fights, just a standard which you can minimax for specific fights.

Have fun

Small edit I need to do, there are no trinkets/rings add here but mostly it would be new badge one, [Ring of the Stalwart Protector] and [Band of the Eternal Defender] with [Shadowmoon Insignia] and [Commendation of Kael'thas].

Quigon · 03/25/08, 11:59 PM

Seems alright, but giving up expertise is probably not a wise choice given the consequences of sunwell mobs having parry feedback. Already heard more than a few stories about that tonight. I'll be editing the OP soon.

Zaroua · 03/26/08, 2:14 AM

The lack of hit rating on any of the new gear is very sad. Feedback was either ignored or having no hit rating is intended, especially with the taunt happy fights in Sunwell.

Reliknom · 03/26/08, 8:27 AM

I think the main thing to decide for each of us will be: which old T6 piece to keep, to get the 4 piece bonus. Without much number crunching I think it will be the chest for me, but a more detailed analysis might prove me wrong. Seems like I'll have to wait on Quigon to do the work for us.

Meyla · 03/26/08, 8:41 PM

Originally Posted by Zaroua

The lack of hit rating on any of the new gear is very sad. Feedback was either ignored or having no hit rating is intended, especially with the taunt happy fights in Sunwell.

They could at least change Haste (Chest/Main Hand) for Hit Rating. That would be pretty nice to see again Chest with Hit Rating like T5 was. Well, at least we got loads of expertise rating for that crappy parry miziu miziu one shots.

Anyway, just wanted to discuss a little about standard gear which can be changed in any way for specific fights, more threat, more hit etc. etc. About T6 chest, yes was thinking about it, but when you add everything, new one looks at least some better to it. For now my 4set bonus is still Wrist/Waist/Boots and Gloves for standard set, with maybe change Gloves for Chest and Teron Gloves goes in. Dunno, just thinking loud..

Quigon · 03/26/08, 11:21 PM

I think you're going to want the expertise of the gloves for many reasons. It should be advantageous over 4 piece if you're forced to make that choice.

5.33 expertise is roughly 2.66% more threat from reduction of parry's and dodge. Let's not forget 1.33% less parries is a big deal, especially when you're probably already down to 6-9% parries - that's a 20-30% improvement in burst reduction.

Further, 2.66% more TPS, even at 1000 TPS, is 26-30 TPS. And if you're killing Brut et al. you're doing way more than 1000 TPS.

The 4 piece bonus is a pseudo static markup of roughly 60 to 80 threat per 6.4 seconds. You're looking at maybe 10-12 TPS. Max of perhaps 15.

Expertise is the winner nearly every time over the 4 piece bonus - in fact it will still win out even if you do not include the dodge component.

I have to spend some quality time on all the gear to see if you can have your cake and eat it too - but my initial recommendation: don't drop expertise for any difficult boss.

There is the issue of the 1.4% dodge rating loss on the T6 gloves however. So you can tweak out a bit more mit that way.

Most of you will be dying to burst in the next few days/weeks/months or already have to brutallus - and its best to see why you died. Typically this is from burst. Armor and expertise are better choices than raw dodge in this case - gambling is fine, but the fight is long enough that the boss will get lucky. This was discussed in some length with 250% Hydross strategies, so should be old hat by now... and is really the primary tenant of Itzlegend's post. If parry's aren't an issue you can always add a bit more avoidance - but I wouldn't reinvent the wheel here... there is simply some luck involved with the current skill and gearset.

Mem · 03/27/08, 9:07 AM

Regarding the comparison between T6 gloves and enforcements: you should also consider that the blockvalue on the enforcement gloves partially offset the loss of the T6 bonus (depending on your gear).

The real competition comes from the [Borderland Fortress Grips] - especially if these ones were updated as well (didn't see them mentioned on mmo-champion.com). Regardless whether one sockets them for avoid or for stamina they will sport more stamina (unless you go for a spinell and a lionseye).

The question I'm still struggling with is whether as an orc I should go for a Kalecgos sword or retain my brutalizers.

Njial · 03/27/08, 9:59 AM

Another gear related issue on Brutallus and expertise; Is expertise so good for burst v. mitigation that we should change from an item like Pendant of the Titans to the Badge reward neck, the tier 6 legs to the badge one, etc...?

Dots · 03/27/08, 11:23 AM

Not really, parries hardly matter on a mob that swings twice per second anyway. Go with avoidance unless you need more threat.

Edgewalker · 03/27/08, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Njial

Another gear related issue on Brutallus and expertise; Is expertise so good for burst v. mitigation that we should change from an item like Pendant of the Titans to the Badge reward neck, the tier 6 legs to the badge one, etc...?

Your going to Mitigate more with Avoidance gear over Expertise gear for Brutallus. Parry gibs from warrior caused parries happen less than stomp RNG gibs.

Muggins · 03/27/08, 2:26 PM

For those who haven't seen it yet the Battleworn Tuskguard has had its 40 block rating converted into 40 defense rating, making it a much harder choice between itself and Destroyer. It seems to be a case of if you want more avoidance go for T5, if you want more soak through stamina and block value its the Tuskguard you want.

Blackbrute · 03/27/08, 5:09 PM

There is so many gear choice now!

I'm pretty much Full T5 but I still have [Panzar'Thar Breastplate] and [Destroyer Legguards]. Torn apart if I should get new badge leggings at all, or get the chest and ring.

Right now I have [Band of Eternity] (Revered version, soon Exalted with new REDICULOUS reputation) and [Ring of Sundered Souls].

Maybe belt also! I have [Iron-Tusk Girdle], of course.

Breakdown on stats :

Chest
------
+218 Armor
+3 Stamina
+25 Defense Rating
+34 Dodge Rating

Belt
------
+1 Stamina
+13 Defense Rating
+23 Hit Rating
+22 Expertise Rating

Legs
------
- 50 Armor
- 18 Strength
- 28 Agility
+30 Stamina
+4 Defense Rating
+35 Dodge Rating
+23 Expertise Rating

I would get 1st chest, then 2nd Belt. I loose a lot of different stats with badge leggings so I still don't know, although 30 stam, plus avoidance and expertise on the same item is really hot.

Ahhhhh, I'll check to see what I need based on where we are. 3/5 Hyjal, haven't started BT yet. We got BT attunment Monday night, right before the patch 2.4 was applied

.

mistersix · 03/27/08, 6:50 PM

Originally Posted by Mem

Regarding the comparison between T6 gloves and enforcements: you should also consider that the blockvalue on the enforcement gloves partially offset the loss of the T6 bonus (depending on your gear).

The new meta gem could also help mitigate some of that right?

Fellwraith · 03/28/08, 3:55 AM

Originally Posted by Edgewalker

Your going to Mitigate more with Avoidance gear over Expertise gear for Brutallus. Parry gibs from warrior caused parries happen less than stomp RNG gibs.

Brutallus is supposed to be flagged not to speed up his next swing after he parries, similar to Mother S (meaning there's no "parry flurry"). Expertise doesn't do anything but increase your threat generation on him if that's true.

Reliknom · 03/28/08, 6:31 AM

I'm still unsure how best to handle Brutallus.

Although threat did not seem a problem, I'm vacillating between avoidance and stacking hit. The former will help me survive stomp, the latter will help the other tank. I tried to balance these 2 and add expertise for more agro, but I would like to hear the opinion of those more on the bleeding edge of raiding - of course only after next reset, to comply with the forum rules.

Mem · 03/28/08, 9:28 AM

Originally Posted by mistersix

The new meta gem could also help mitigate some of that right?

Yes and no. Yes, it will mitigate that one. But seeing that using the Faceplate anyway for defensive setups the question is whether to break up the T6 bonus by using Enforcements or to retain it by keeping the T6 gloves. Which means: the new meta will improve the bonus as well which is why it won't matter in the question whether the T6 bonus is worth keeping.

Enkidu · 03/28/08, 2:32 PM

The new meta has a EH equivelancy whenever you aren't caught flat footed (assuming you block all or nearly all incoming attacks). Note it only increases gear block value, not block value from Strength or talents. It is a very good meta not only for threat and mitigation but overall survival also, at some gear/raid levels it is superior to the stamina meta. Not for Sunwell, though.

Don't worry too much about the T6 bonus, as stated above the TPS increase is minor. The biggest TPS increase by far in game is the amount of rage this new content is dishing out, spam the hell out of your HS key.

Moogul · 03/28/08, 3:44 PM

Originally Posted by Enkidu

It is a very good meta not only for threat and mitigation but overall survival also, at some gear/raid levels it is superior to the stamina meta. Not for Sunwell, though.

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you, but surely the 10% bv meta is better at higher levels of gear, and the stamina one is better at worse levels of gear (where it's absolute 18stam is a bigger percentage of your overall health).

Enkidu · 03/28/08, 3:55 PM

At higher gear levels there is less SBV and larger hits (less overall TTL = less blocks till death). For ZA T5 and some T6 gear/raid level however this meta is absolutely amazing.

The best mitigation gear you can get in Sunwell has very little SBV.

Hypatia · 03/28/08, 4:01 PM

Anybody have any thoughts about how the Sunwell Radiance effect will impact gear choices for the Sunwell?

acx · 03/28/08, 4:28 PM

Originally Posted by Hypatia

Anybody have any thoughts about how the Sunwell Radiance effect will impact gear choices for the Sunwell?

Stack armor and hp? Essentially you're back to T4 level of avoidance while facing T7 level of damage.

Suesse · 03/28/08, 4:37 PM

Originally Posted by Hypatia

Anybody have any thoughts about how the Sunwell Radiance effect will impact gear choices for the Sunwell?

As this original post states, as your avoidance gets higher, you get more and more out of every 1% avoidance (for example, if you add 1% avoidance when you're already at 98% avoidance, you take 50% of the damage you took before, but going from 50% to 51% avoidance only reduces your damage taken by 2%). I think this will push armor/stamina a little higher than it currently is compared to avoidance, but I doubt it will drastically change your itemization choices.

galzohar · 03/28/08, 4:53 PM

EDIT: Didn't realize who this debuff was supposed to affect

Suesse · 03/28/08, 4:55 PM

Sunwell Radiance - Spells - World of Warcraft (mouse over it)