Awesome thread here. Ive been a tank since game has been around. I have a few general questions. Mainly thru guild tanks , we have different ideas on how to gain best TPS ect best gems , best item per slot.

Right now we are working on Vashj / Kael. Have Mallet of tides , an everything socketed for sta right now. I have Tier 4 / Badge / Kara / ZA gear. Using best items I can get right now. One my warriors claims Tier 2 piece for tier 5 is best thing since 5 cent hotdogs. I really have never been one to stack shield block value. Ive worked more on maxing my armor / hp with balance of dodge / parry about 20 perc each with 28 perc block. 17k hps unbuffed, with almost 325 + block value. Overall I think I do ok. But what im looking for is , what overall stat is going to help my TPS , im around 850 - 1k depending on fights. Im using a general 5 sunder - SS / Revenge / Dev / Dev rotation.

Will it be most benificalt o start giving up some sta to socket the new dodge / socket gems until we get into Tier 6 pieces?

Will I increase my TPS by much , in switching to ZA axe over Mallet , I only have 20 expertise - 57 rating. Id loss the 5 perc to dodge / parry , if I went with the axe id gain hit / parry and overall more dps on weapon. But is there going to be a 50 or more TPS increase from the change to make it losing the expertise?

Last but not least , how much shield block value do u really want going into Tier 6 content. Is tier 4 - 2 piece set bonus as good as my guild mates really make it sound? I mean overall it looks on paper to me like u take 100 less dmg or so.

Thanhks for help an advice this is a great thread an forums for help

Most of your questions can be answered in the OP or subsequent posts in this thread. I'll leave it up to you to use the search tool to your benefit.

As for the 2pc tier5 I can tell you from experience that it is well worth getting and will be hard to drop well into t6 content. I would stick with the mallet over the ZA axe as you are not an Orc.

You listed your rotation as "5 sunders - ss/rev/dev/dev". I would suggest dropping sunder armor unless you are using it in a macro on sheeped targets. The OP goes into great detail regarding an ideal threat rotation, go back and study the post as it will answer almost all of your questions.

The post says nothing of how shield block value is > or < then any other stat. I know how it works , I want to know FEEDBACK from people who have gone down same path as I have. Think of where the balance is. Details on abilities an rotations are only based on peoples pcs / lag / ect. It doesnt give any insight as to what 1000's of tanks fill the value of one stat is. I mean some here would tank stacked stam , some tank with max mitigation in mind. So I thank you for the reply of "use search function" I was hoping I wouldnt get from a forum as well done as this. But I guess u cant expect everyone to be helpful, no offense. But how does ur reply of look for urself , which really truely means u didnt even truely read my post :|

Oh well thanks for feedback on the TPS on the axe.

Also to make it more clear for people who cant grasp what i meant. I stack 5 sunder , THEN use SS / revenge / dev dev , hence the - . Thought anyone with a clue to what content I was MTing would understand that tho.

Anxiously seeking better thought out replies to how block value is or isnt needed to worry about going into MH / BT

Looking at my blocked attacks from last night and the tooltip, I don't think this is an accurate statement.

The meta is multiplicative with all other stats. Meaning the math is:
([block value for armor/shield] + [block value from strength]) * [1.3 for talents] * [1.1 for the meta]

It's the only way I can come up to 711 block value in my 4pc T6 set.

Didn't the "devastate applies sunder" patch completely eliminate sunder (except on sheeped targets)?...

I haven't tried it yet as a prot spec, but another warrior in my guild did. He had 602 SBV on character screen with talents (10 from strength), equipped a helmet with the new meta and no additional SBV, gained 45 SBV. (602/1.3-10)*.1=45

That's not really clear at all. I assume you mean you hit dev 5 times to stack the sunders, but the way you write it sounds like you are hitting your sunder armour button. Also, you should try typing "you" and "though" before a ban hammer lands on you.

And what set are you asking about?
"One my warriors claims Tier 2 piece for tier 5 is best thing since 5 cent hotdogs"
"Is tier 4 - 2 piece set bonus as good as my guild mates really make it sound?"

Assuming you mean T5, it's very nice indeed. As well as blocking for more it's another 100 damage on shield slam (130 with shield mastery).

"The post says nothing of how shield block value is > or < then any other stat."
You should probably read it again, since it states:
1 block value is equal to 0.16 TPS in a 4-cycle rotation with 100 ms of latency.
...
1 hit rating is equal to ~0.7 TPS for a 4-cycle rotation with 100ms of latency with “good” tanking gear.
1% chance to hit equals roughly 11 TPS. The math for this can be seen in the threat per second excel template linked above

Its from my alt warrior we got to the 10% of gear based block value only. I would love it to be 10% total but the numbers I get don't fit that at all.

My block value affecting items are

[Destroyer Handguards]
[Destroyer Legguards]
[Jungle Stompers]
[Seventh Ring of the Tirisfalen]
[Signet of the Last Defender]
[Item not found!]
[Styleen's Impeding Scarab]
[Bulwark of the Amani Empire]

This gives 451 Block Value from gear, I get 12 block value from strength and have 3/3 shield mastery giving a total block value of 602.

My [Tankatronic Goggles] contain the new meta, equiping them gives a boost of 45 block to a new total of 647. This fits perfectly with it only adding the 10% to the base block value and not with it giving 10% to the total.

If I remove the Signet and Auto Blocker I lose 101 base block value. If the meta affects total value we expect a real loss of 101*1.3*1.1 = 144.4, if it only affects base value we expect 101*1.3 + 101*0.1 = 141.4

Removing these two rings takes me from 647 to 506, a change of 141, once again fitting with the base 10% rather than total.

I have tested these numbers with mob hits to make sure its not just a character screen addition error and I am blocking for the numbers as listed.



I see you have a 15 block value enchant on your helm. For this to entirely fit I have to assume this enchant is also not affected by shield mastery.

488 from gear set meta as 49, so we have 49+15 = 64 value to add at the end.
488 + ~10.3 block value for strength = 498.3*1.3 = 648 + 64 = 712

Would you agree this seems to fit? (total multiplier would have given 513*1.3*1.1 = 734)

Yep, you're right. I completely forgot about the helm enchant, my mistake. Coincidentally, the math worked out as an "all-in" total without it.

Is anyone else noticing TC is resisting a lot less these days? WWS seems accurate in measuring it and it's showing very low resist rates.

Last run had a 18.9% resist. It was really painful on Kalecgos.

What are everyone's thoughts on gemming a lot of hit with sunwell gear. From what I've seen the gear has lots of stam , avoidance, and expertise, but you lose all the hit from the BT gear. Don't get me wrong, I'm a stam whore too, but it seems kinda (keyword: kinda) pointless to stack more stam after u hit like 18k unbuffed. Ya, more stam = more hits taken, but if your healers are doing their job you shouldn't get low enough that the extra stam will save your life (especially when bosses hit for 10k). Plus hit affects taunts now too, and seeing as kalecgos and brut are tauntable, you wouldn't want to wipe due to an unlucky string of resisted taunts.

I haven't ran the numbers to see exactly how much stam you would need to gem to hit 18k unbuffed in full sunwell gear, but i would be willing to bet its somewhere around half to 3/4 of the gem slots with stam, leaving a good bit left to socket for hit.

Another thing i was thinking about is what piece of original T6 would be the best piece to keep for the 4 piece bonus, idk whether to take the strongest piece of T6 or replace the weakest piece of sunwell gear. I haven't compared the pieces side by side yet, this was just a little brainstorming i did after looking at the new pieces, so if i missed something thats blatantly obvious, feel free to flame me for not doing my homework on the matter.

As had been said many times already, there is a much higher chance your raid will wipe on a new fight due to a dead tank than it will be wiping to not dealing enough DPS, not to mention to a tank not doing enough threat. Of course assuming the DPS issues aren't dead people, but generating more threat doesn't exactly help people stay alive (although having more stamina and being easier to heal does somewhat help with that).

Might still be worth checking out. If it hits more, I would assume the quietly let melee +hit affect thunderclap, in which case the Sunwell mob anti-hit buff nukes it back out to 18.9%.

my point is that 1.5k - 2k extra hp wont usually save u on a boss that hits for 10k or more, unless you're at 28.5k buffed hp in which case the extra 1.5k extra would allow you to take one more hit before dieing.

You always get some healing in between hits though - lifebloom ticks and so forth. So to say that extra health is only useful if it allows you to survive one more full hit isn't terribly accurate. Plus, Brutallus duel-wields so I imagine his "one-round" damage could come in just about any size depending on parries, which hands landed hits, and so forth.

Sathrovarr's stun would lend value to stamina over avoidance, while the fact that the first two bosses are tauntable (and must be taunted as part of the encounter) puts some value on hit. Based on the rumours swirling around Brutallus' damage output I wouldn't imagine you could possibly have "enough" stamina and not want more for that encounter.

Your statement is short-sighted, and assumes that you will always be at full health and then recieve no heals unless that heal puts you back to full health. That is far from the truth, since:

20 000 hp

Take 10 000 dmg (have 10 000 hp)
healed for 5000 (have 15 000 hp)
Get hit twice for 10 000 dmg (dead)

25 001 hp

Take 10 000 dmg (have 15 001 hp)
healed for 5000 (have 20 0001 hp)
Get hit twice for 10 000 dmg (1 hp)

See?

true, but the fact still remains that if your healers are doing their job, i cant imagine that you would need more than like 24k buffed hp. If you do get an unlucky parry or something, you have this handy dandy little ability called Last Stand.

I didn't have 22k raid buffed HP today on Brutallus, even with 30 stamina food and flask. We still got him down and today's wipes were never caused buy unhealable tanks. So what did you say about stamina again? The OP is quite clear on these issues, please read it.
BTW, 1 day 'till we can talk about these fights, but what bugs me really is if we have any combat log parse confirmation about the +5% hit, -20% dodge buff on live bosses. I would have CombatMonitor2 if Satrina had time to finish it, but bad experiences hold me back from Recount or SWStats, so no parse for me. Could someone advise me on a suitable lightweight mod for this purpose?

And what if their ISP isn't doing their job? Or that new guy did a misstake? Or the servers lag? Or some healer gets a surprise blowjob? Or something else. More health is always better, while there is exist an "enough" when it comes to threat.

We all understand the value of hit in taunt fights but not all seem to fully see that value of yet even more health.

I have a question regarding improved demoralising shout:

Is it true that demo shout is capped at 2/5 and further talent points would only make sense when curse of recklessness comes into play?

Yes, without CoR 2/5 imp demo is enough. But as nowadays everyone uses (and well should) CoR, 5/5 imp demo is a must have.