Teez

Probably a Draenei Paladin/Hunter/Warrior in your group, and a Moonkin putting up Imp. FF? That makes up for 4%, then add some RNG in the mix and it sounds close enough. Keep in mind, your sample size is pretty small. It's definitely not talent related though or anything, so I don't quite see why this would go in this thread :/

Warrior - Shaman - Priest

 

Fredaykin

Your ratio SS:Rev:Dev is ok, and HS is higher but it should be expected in a fight like Bruta. It seems to me the total amount is a bit lower though.
As far as I could see in the armory, your Brutalizer is not enchanted, if that's the case go for executionner. Gemming the ingeneer gun with +10 hit and changing the meta gemme in your helmet for +12 def +10% BV should also help you generate more raw threat from SS.
If you have the Teron gloves use them there as well (like Xaviera said before). I hope it can help.

 

Armina

Regarding an infinity rage situation, such as Brutallus, is Revenge needed at all? I know people swear by using Revenge because of its 2 rage cost, but in an infinity rage situation is it worthwhile using over Devastate?

Looking at the first page, Revenge non-crit is 201 threat, while Devastate is 600, I did 106 + 14*5 (sunder count) which equals to 600, but its probably calculated wrong (as well as weapon speed/dps making a difference) hence I need to ask. I also have Dragon Encrusted Longblade and The Brutalizer.

 

Magna

Devastate is 176 bonus threat with five sunders up, you ignored the order of operations in your math; add in the threat from yellow damage and revenge will still win out.

 

◊ Zoroaster

The following assumes a mob with 0 AC and you having 0% crit, since both variables will effect Revenge/Devastate the same.

Revenge on average is 661 threat
Devastate is 176 + (how hard you hit)

So you'd need to hit for 485 dmg with your Devastates to make it worthwhile. Our MT was hitting for 268 per Devastate last night on Brutallus, so it's doubtful that Devastate will pass up Revenge in TPS without wearing lots of DPS gear.

Most tanks swear by the SS/Rev/Dev/Dev cycle since there are very few reasons to ever change it up.

 

mistersix

I tried searching for something like this in this thread and elsewhere and came up empty so I thought I might ask. Apologies if this is covered elsewhere and I just didn't find it. Do we have a table anywhere that illustrates how much tps can come from each stat?

How much tps is 1 point of block value worth? 1 point of hit? expertise? etc? I'm trying to dig into some of the excel sheets I have from similar efforts but I'm not sure how successful I'm going to be at pulling out the data from the formulas if they're even in there.

I was thinking something like this might be a nice addition to this thread or even the op (perhaps as a prelude to the tps numbers for the agro trinkets section or as an addendum to the basic stats section). Just a thought.

Thanks in advance for any help or links.

edit: near as I can tell it comes out to something like this:
1 ap = 9.42 tps
1 crit = 2.85 tps
1 exp rating = .719 tps (up to 91 expertise rating. effective tps halves after that up to 253 expertise rating)
1 hit rating = .666 tps (up to 142 hit rating cap. effective tps afterwards is nil)
1 block value = .152 tps (never runs out)

modeled on numbers for:
[Shapeshifter's Signet] for exp
[Band of the Abyssal Lord] for hit
[Band of the Eternal Defender] for bv
[Battlemaster's Cruelty] for crit
[Stormrage Signet Ring] for ap

haste, iap, ignored for the time being.

but I really, really don't trust my math. Never been my strong point. Does this seem right or close to anyone?

 

Ihmes

AP is horribly inflated at least. At that value, 600 AP (easily in tank gear) should account for 5400 TPS...

According to the original post, 2 expertise skill (0,5%+0,5%, 2x3,923= 7,8846 rating) is equal to 1% hit (15,77 rating)

So rating per rating, expertise is about double the TPS of hit up to dodge cap. After that it's equal, tps wise.

Crit is less good per % than hit, because crits only double the amount of dmg, not innate threat of skills. And because you need more rating per %, crit falls well behind hit. Numbers from a random brutallus death:

Total amount of dmg threat: 198570 <- crit only affects this.
Total amount of skill threat: 75305

But: you can't really compare any "how much tps does this item make", because it depends on your original stats. 1% more expertise at 600 AP and 400 BV makes more tps than same % at 300 ap and 200 BV, and so do ratings too.
This is excel-thingie.

So, basically, those tps numbers don't mean anything, and you can't decide your gear selection based on those. To get real numbers, you need to:
1) input stats
2) make combat table
3) calculate each skills innate+dmg threat (scaling)
4) decide skill rotation
5) insert that data into a spreadsheet that pops out how much threat does this setup do in a certain time -> TPS
6) compare "next stat" for each stat and compare that changed TPS number to the original.

 

Whiteknight

The stats are all co-dependent, so there's no way to say how much threat per second a single point of block value (for instance) is worth.

Consider two extremes: how much TPS is 800 block worth in the two cases where your tank has 0% crit, vs 100% crit?

Alternatively, how much is that same block value worth on a fully sundered caster-armor boss (e.g. solarian) vs a non-sundered warrior-style armor boss (e.g. brutallus).

 

Moshi

Just a quick question not sure if it's been already discussed in the 70 somewhat pages but i couldn't find anything in the original post.

Does spell damage affect warriors in anyway? ie: I have seen a warrior in a sunwell guild using 12+ spell damage ring enchants? I can't see it being effective moreso over 4+ stats...Was wondering if theres some sort of reason behind this?

 

Suesse

Only thing I can think of is [Stratholme Holy Water] but I think it was nerfed in 2.4 to not scale with spell damage.

 

• Goatbert

Maybe he was leveling enchanting?

 

Moshi

Well he has 375 enchanting and he's the MT of the guild so even if he was leveling it, hes finished it and probably (at least im hoping) would have enchanted correctly by now at least...

 

Mode

The last time I tested it, spell reflect added my spelldamage to spells I reflected. That's about it.

 

pope master

Blessing of Sanctuary.

 

Aeverius

Since when does Blessing of Sanctuary have a spelldamage coefficient? Not that I'd put BoSanc on a tanking warrior unless we had five paladins in the raid anyway, but that's besides the point.

Improved Lay on Hands is really fucking good:

 

JamesVZ

Eh? I'd love to see some testing on this if true...how I remember it is that the spell damage for reflected spells was calculated at the caster's end (when it leaves their hands).

Official Slackie Fanclub. The dude gets ALL the ladies.

In regards to Icecrown Radiance:

 

Høtpocket

Alright, I have a question for you fellow warriors out there. I was checking out some gear off of Archimonde because my guild is very close to killing him. Being the main tank and all i was comparing my helm [Battleworn Tuskguard] to the [Onslaught Greathelm] and it doesn't seem like a huge upgrade. I was just curious of everyones thoughts on this. Thanks for the help in advance.

 

Smooglab

The t6 helm is probably the weakest piece of the set when it comes to possible off-set items, the only reason you should pick it up is probably to gain the 4 piece set bonus, otherwise leave it for your guildies imo.

Terrified. Mortified. Petrified. Stupefied... by you!

 

◊ Penguin

You gain a meta, threat/mitigation stats from the Agi and Str that the Battleworn doesn't have, and the set bonuses. I don't even see why it's a question.

There's not some hidden "but he tries really hard" variable built into the game. -Slake

I always love the "it doesn't fit my style of play" line. There are only two styles of play; Correct, and Incorrect. The only people that ever use this line are people with the incorrect style of play. -Sebudai

 

Reliknom

The T6 helm is not really worth it, and there are other classes who can use it better than a tanking warrior. The 4 pcs set bonus is quite lackluster and if you are only closing on Archimonde, you should be still weeks away from Shahraz, Council and Illidan, making three pieces of the set unavailable. I'd say go with either the ZA or T5 helm and the gloves from Teron (with 2% threat enchant) and ignore T6 until shoulders-legs-chest become available. And even then, you only need the gloves for maybe Gurtogg, and you can miss out on the helm and take the one dropping from Illidan.

"Morituri Nolumus Mori!"

 

Høtpocket

That is true, but i am also losing about 50ish stam, dodge rating and shield block value.

 

spawnstah

I used my T4 helmet when we progressed through SSC/TK/MH/BT and went straight for the one dropping from Illidan. I still dont think the T6 helmet was worth it and felt my guildies could have more use of it.

 

Masimo

You are only losing about ~.25% dodge, since you will get agi on the T6 helm. You will gain SBV because of the new meta socket you will have. You will indeed lose the stam, but you will also gain 128 armor.

For threat generation, the T6 helm is superior as you gain Str, Agi, and the SBV meta. I also believe the T6 helm was shown to be superior for TPS over the Faceplate in previous pages of this thread.

Personally I would take the T6 helm for access to the meta and just accept the stam loss as stamina is easier to come by using other pieces (gloves off of Kael over T6 gloves).

 

Fellwraith

Actually if you use the right meta gem you're gaining block value (or you should be). You also gain 8 defense when you factor in the meta.

The dodge is a push because the onslaught battlehelm + an agi/stam gem is enough agility to increase your dodge by a comparable amount. You also gain crit and armor from having agi instead of dodge rating.

50 stamina is an overestimate. It's 44 at most (asuming you actually put 15 stam gems in the ZA helm). While that hurts a bit in some fights, you're also gaining ~205 armor (with kings) with the onslaught battlehelm to help offset it. The relevant set bonus here is the 2pc. The best combo to wear in order to achieve it before you kill Illidan is the helm and the shoulders.

This really isn't too hard to figure out. You're gaining defense, armor, block rating, block value, avoidance, and threat at the cost of stamina - stamina is not the end-all, be-all of tanking stats. How far are you in BT? Is it realistic to expect the Illidan helm in the next 1-2 months? If the answer to that is NO, then you should think about taking the T6 helm, because it is an upgrade that will help you kill him. If nothing else, you'll want it for your threat set. You get 3 helms a week once you start killing Archimonde, there really shouldn't be a scarcity issue with set pieces, you should take an upgrade if it's available to you as the MT.

 

Suesse

I believe it's actually 190 armor gain. People often forget about agility giving armor, and the T6 helm has a quite a bit.