Salted

So I made a post last night in the Class mechanics forum about fury sword spec, and it looks to have been deleted...

Anyway, my spec is 26/35/0, and has been for a while... I know some people are looking for other interesting ways to spec instead of 17/44, and honestly I don't see why this isn't listed as a viable spec.

Here is my WWS for last night... note that Sipheroth wasn't in the raid for Teron, so can't compare to that particular warrior on that fight.

Wow Web Stats

Pro: Deathwish, sword spec, improved thunderclap/rend
Cons: +10% threat, -10% AP, 1 point in precision, no rampage, fast OH for whirlwind.

Personally, I think rampage is a real chore, and not much benefit for the 20 rage.

Sword spec might not be the 17/44 killer in every case, but its my favorite spec to play.

Not only that, it openes the theorycraft doors again since none of the spreadsheets really calculate for it. Haste becomes better, +hit becomes more important, AP isn't the primary stat.

Just goes to show, you don't need twin blades to be sword spec, though.

 

Hozz

I agree that Rampage is tedious, it really needs to be less maintenance. And Sword Spec is great fun. But coming from 17/44, I can not fathom how I could operate w/o Improved Berserker stance. Even if the DPS was the same at 26/35...the threat difference would affect me on every Sunwell fight except maybe Kalecgos.

 

Whistles

With enough hit from your gear you can lose Precision and Rampage to pick up Deathwish. Deathwish scales unlike Rampage so eventually it'll should be better. From there you can either go Sword Spec or Imp Zerker depending on whether you're threat capped or not. Or even mix it up until you find the right balance.

The killer is the loss of Precision and wasting a few points in Arms on unnecessary talents. It isn't looking as viable as it was a few months ago due to the lack of hit on some of the best gear available from Sunwell to make up for not getting it via talents.

Disclaimer: I haven't even done any napkin math on this, just throwing out some ideas.

EDIT: Bonus points if you raid with a Boomkin.

 

Salted

I typically run with over 200 +hit without +hit food, and I don't specificially gem or gear for it. You just get it as a 'bonus' stat on a lot of gear. But I still can't quite determine the value of +hit because yellow dmg is still 60-70% of my dmg...

 

Rabbitskull

It is currently located in the Dung Heap forum.

 

Waltron

I remember reading some were on these forums that rage generated from a crittical strike will be the double of whats normal for that ammount of damge, is there any confirmation on this ?

My interest in this is to determine if the hit rating really is worth more than Crit rating even below the soft cap of 9% hit.

I apologise for any spelling mistakes that may be in here, but writing on a foriegne language as a dyslexic can be quite trouble some.

 

• Mjollnir

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t18771-p...warrior_guide/
VIII b. Rage Generation

Here's a simple way of thinking about 'crit > hit below 9%': let's say you crit, and you get double rage, but then your MS or BT misses due to lack of hit... what good is that rage? You generate rage to use it on specials; it's the whole point of it. Dodges occur enough on specials to be a nuissance, don't bring in misses when it is so easy to cap.
Hit > all until 9%. Expertise is similarly prioritized.

 

Sovelor

I have a question over here... Should a fury warrior have priority on Ap/Crit/ArP after the 9% cap? I mean 40% of my damage and rage comes from normal attacks... In that manner the 20% Hit that I have at the moment isn't more worth than the other 3 stats? Or should i reduce that to 9% and get all others up?

 

Anaximander

I assume you saw this from the guide post:


It's true that this isn't really explained in the guide. The reasoning is this: Gemming for +Hit will increase the number of white attacks that hit and cause damage, and give you some extra rage. However, after achieving 9% hit, +Hit does not affect instant attacks in any way. By gemming for Strength and Critical Strike, those stats increase not only your overall white damage, but also that of your instant attacks. So even though you miss more with white attacks, you deal a net increase in damage with those that do hit and with your special attacks.

I checked your armory and you will likely see a very nice dps increase by converting your gems to +Str and +Str/Crit.

 

Hiace

I got a question about [Solarian's Sapphire] vs [Madness of the Betrayer] how much the other 4 ppl
gain dps (ench shaman,3 rogues) if i wear Solarian and how much i gain if i wear motb as fury specked.

 

Anaximander

Solarian's Sapphire will yield a much higher raid dps than Motb (and probably any other trinket currently in game). Assuming 5/5 improved BS, that's 70AP*1.25*5=437.5AP from a single trinket slot. That's 350 AP for the raid over and above the benefit to your own dps.

 

Graul

Generic math puts it at 80 raid DPS. You would need to subtract any personal DPS from another trinket to find out how much it's actually adding.

 

LeythG_KI_bladesedge

Hey guys whats up, this is my first time post but i've been a long time lurker. I've learned alot from these forums and helped my guildies out with the info as well. I commend you all on your knowledge of the class mechanics and appreciate the help you have given me however I've come across a problem with my char.

I have learned the basics for raiding as a fury warrior and am succeeding in the raids around the top 10 of the dps charts. Most the time up in the top 5 with whirlwinds. However I feel like the dps I am doing should be better for the gear I have, I think my AP/hit/Crit might be off. My gemming is probably incorrect and my weapon gearing could be wrong. I'm hoping you guys could identify this for me by checking out my wowarmory link.

The World of Warcraft Armory

I changed a few gems around since i last played if it doesnt update. But nothing else is changed.

Do you think I have too much hit?

Too low crit?

Am i gemming the wrong things?

Two slow weapons, should i alter the way I play? I keep BT/WW on CD burning the rest of my rage on heroic strike.. rampage and BS stays up, i try to pop that trinket as i remember. I know its green dont worry i'm like 3 badges shy of bloodlust brooch.


Thanks ahead guys

 

Gruntle

Based on your gear I'd say that you should do ok in starting SSC/TK raids but for a few things.
- Green trinket is alright, but Romulo's poison vial is utter crap once your past 9% hit, you would be better of using the green trinket+bloodlust brooch
- Warbringer shoulders are really bad, Ragesteel shoulders are better even if you lose the 2 piece set bonus.
- Your weapons are really good, a lot better than the rest of your gear. If they indicate the places where you raid normally (MH), I'd say that the rest of your gear is really too bad. You need S3 or SSC/TK level gear to compete in BT/MH.

Using slow weapons is fine, with your 200+ hit (you could probably afford to lose some of that, losing Romulos will bring it down though) you should not have any problems with miss streaks and rage starvation. If you're gemming for hit (I can't see that in my browser unfortunately) you should regem to crit/str immediately.

I think your crit is a bit low (if you're in zerk stance in armory which I think you are), it would be ok for starting Kara, but for 25-mans it should be a little bit higher. Trade about 50 hit for crit and you should be fine.

To say anything more (about how you use your abilities and so on), I'd need a wws log to look at. What kind of dps are you getting? In that gear with full buffs I think you should be around 700-800 or so.

 

LeythG_KI_bladesedge

My guild is way more progressed than me, they fit me into the SSC and TK runs though. The only times i've been gemming hit is with the epic gems that drop in 5man heroics. 10AP + 4 hit i think it is.

The fist was from a hyjal trash farming visit so we're not raiding BT or hyjal yet, i think we're attempting naj'entus tommorrow though.

I'll give up some hit for crit and AP i suppose, i've been doing towards 800DPS on solo mobs without aoe'ing in 25 mans. Its quite sluggish in 5 mans though, more like 550-600dps.

What kind of self buffs should i be doing? hit food? strength food? agil food? What flasks/elixirs? I use weightstones i think thats my only choice for fists. Other then that I got nothing else

 

rejdakon

Generally, you should really read the first post in this thread again.

Also, use one of the two excellent Warrior Spread-Sheets available on these forums. Experimenting with those will really give you some insight regarding upgrade paths and equipment choices.

Apart from this:

- Don't use Hit Food, alsways use Strength food.
- Gem for Strength at your level of gear, maybe Crit/Str in your yellow sockets.
- Also, you are going for socket bonuses far too often when gemming. Don't use more than the two Blue Gems necessary for activating your Meta. Start with replacing the green gems in your bracers and belt. As long as your're using rare gems, you can keep the green gems in your headpiece and pants.
- You should really consider doing some PvP. Honor-Neck and ring are pretty nice to start with. S3 Breastplate would be a huge upgrade, helmet and pants would be very nice upgrades, too.
- Get the Badge-Ring ([Angelista's Revenge].

 

ScatheUK

You need to be more careful how you word this. Its not as simple as saying if your rage spikes past 30 while on global cd use Bloodthirst depending what your AP is from table. At 30 rage yes, but what about at 40 rage, 60 rage, 100 rage? You could burn all that 100 rage into execute damage and then have 30 rage still for next gcd. Its a judgement call based on how much rage you have, how much AP you have from current buffs/procs and whether you're in a high rage generating phase (i.e. Bloodthirst/execute/haste pots/ lucky crit string etc...)

 

Salted

On the topic of itemization priority...

Basically don't gem for +hit. And don't use romulo's.

Remember however that better gear is better gear, and don't put stat priorities above all. Take the prince ring which has over 1% to hit - is it worth trading 1% hit for, say, 15 AP? 20 AP? 30 AP? Is 1 flat percent not to miss white attacks worth the same a 1% of your attack power? I'd definately say the 1% hit is better.

Without +hit gems, and without itemizaing FOR hit, I have 233 hit rating, which along with crit, AP, APen and haste in the right items, has scaled with our content just as well.

Yes, in a perfect world you'd get to 140 hit rating and then all your gear would come with insane amounts of AP/Apen/Crit, but since thats not the case, don't downgrade or keep crappy gear just because the itemization isn't 'exactly' what you want. Case in point, leggings of unending fury (badge legs), they are STACKED with hit and haste, but I found a noticable different between those and T5; Unending fury are better.

 

Shha

Did anyone lately try 2h fury builds? Since i started experimenting with 2h this week, i have tried some fights as 21/40 with somewhat mixed feelings.

Pros - The damage potential is amazing on paper. my 3.5 attack CE + some haste goes down to 2.6 speed(2.48 with drums which are almost always up). Makes timing slams a non-issue. I get rid of DsT, and just spam a castsequence macro of BT/Sl/WW/SL/BT/SL/hamstring/SL (with using a drum or bs sometimes in place of hamstring. Basically if you have constant drum coverage with my gear the swing timers stop to matter - you are limited by GCDs, and on other hand you get rid of haste procs - so you never really get below those timers. Heroism? Yea you get one - during execute phase. Thats when you use haste pots too and just go with execute spam almost on gcd (my swing timer is below 1.6 with CE, enough rage from every swing to execute - even when i get glances, aka basically perfect execute rhytm). With average hits of 1500 slams for close to 2k and BT for 2100/WW for 1800 you can see the dps potential - 3500 white/slam every 3 sec + 2100BT every 6 + 1800 WW every 12 . Quick calculation shows around 1700 dps BEFORE crits and WF attacks. Given 50% crit with as stacked melee group as i get and counting just 100% dmg increase on crits (its more since they dont glance on whites and proc impale), the damage starts at 2500+ and gets better with executes/dw/cooldown use.

- Its a bit less threat intensive then dw too due to no heroics.

Cons. It has HORRIBLE rage problems. Thats why the build was deemed useless before by me - now im reevaluating it due to gear scaling. However - if you think 33/28 can get rage starved .... 21/40 is same but way worse. Flurry seems to indeed lower rage generation per swing by around 5%, sword spec lacking is easily 15% LESS rage on top of that. In short - you need to do a bit more moves with 20% less rage. That was always the main problem before. Who cares if your rotation has potential if you cant keep it for more then 30 seconds - and thats starting with 100% rage bar as well. Well it slowly seems to change. With sunwell gear adding up a lot of AP over ArP (which is good as i get over cap often - with imp expose used as well), and completely stacked groups for sunwell bosses, it gets a lot more viable. Ill try to provide WWS next week but overall i expect it to do very well on felmyst (rage from damage taken), and Brutallus (very stacked groups). Too bad im tanking on kalecgos/twins and M'uru doesnt exactly follow a normal pattern for dps.

 

Graul

I'm going to stay away from Slam if I can help it simply because I'm not consistently in a group that has continual drums active and I don't have a MotB to replace the DST with. I have however been considering some 30/31 or 28/33 variants.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

This is basically 33/28 without BF and 10% more from Flurry. It also uses BT over MS, which should outperform MS even without Imp Berserker and Rampage. The last two points in Fury can alternatively just go into Imp Disciplines depending on your gear needs. I could just as easily try 17/44 with a 2h, but I am somwhat partial to having Sword Spec and Death Wish in a 2h build. These aren't the kinds of builds I would ever consider unless another 33/28 Warrior was already in the raid, but they are alternatives to 17/44 DW for those who may not have the best DW setup, or simply want to try out something different on farm content.

 

• Mjollnir

Haste effects do not negatively impact rage generation. Buried somewhere in either this thread or the Future of DPS Warrior thread, someone provided a video that showed clear as day a rage gain under haste being identical to un-hastened.

 

Shha

Haste effects dont indeed. Flurry is not a haste effect though.
Well MotB seems like a very poor choice for 2h fury really ;/ Its 20 hit (completely useless as i cant get hit low enough - even worse with a boomkin - i need 47 hit rating to cap?) and a ArP proc which on most fights is wasted whenever you have executioner up. If anything ill use zerker call. Tsunami talisman/naaru sliver seem like best options though.

 

Rezarel

http://elitistjerks.com/697493-post160.html

That was with both flurry and DST up. Rage gen matched what you'd get from the standard formula with base weapon speed plugged in.

 

• Mjollnir

Voxx, I think this information is quite pertinent and should be included somewhere in the OP. Rezarel's research is very informative.

 

zournyque

@LeythG_KI_bladesedge

my advice to you:

a) get "Executioner" enchant for your mainhand weapon
b) try to farm [Shard of Contempt] it would be a huge upgrade for you.
c) try to get as much badge gear as possible - especially [Angelista's Revenge]
d) getting some PVP-items could really push your PVE performance. S3 Ring, -Boots, -Legs, -Breast , -Hands, -Helm and -Shoulders are all big upgrades for you.

PS: I think Zul'Aman should be a good place for you, as there are many interesting "dps-warrior" drops(breast, ranged weapon and trinket last but not least)