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Old 03/09/08, 11:58 AM   #31
Voxx
Piston Honda
 
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Gnome Warlock
 
Whisperwind
35% base crit in Battle Stance and 2000 AP base in Battle Stance seems a bit off even for someone in 4/5 T6. I have less than 1800 unbuffed AP in Battle Stance and my gear isn't THAT bad. If I were to aim for 2000 in Battle Stance my crit would be nowhere near 35%.

Regardless, those stats are all very nice, but it doesn't prove Haste > Crit, or even that Haste > Hit.

In addition, why use Potency?

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Old 03/09/08, 12:00 PM   #32
Voxx
Piston Honda
 
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Gnome Warlock
 
Whisperwind
Originally Posted by K-Dog View Post
Elixir of Demonslaying: 265 Attack Power vs Demons. (5 minutes)

test it on archimonde and has no effect.
talk to a GM which agreed

Fel Strength Elixir: 70 Attack Power, -10 Stamina. (1 hour)
increase by 90AP not 70...

sorry 4 bad english
How do you mean it had no effect? If you're referring to the fact that your Attack Power in the character sheet didn't improve, that's correct. But as far as I know the Attack Power bonus will still apply when you're attacking demons.

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Old 03/09/08, 12:01 PM   #33
K-Dog
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Warrior
 
Gorgonnash (EU)
The AP bonus will not apply vs. boss like Archimonde.
but will apply to trashmobs or other world demons

Last edited by K-Dog : 03/09/08 at 12:25 PM.

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Old 03/09/08, 12:56 PM   #34
Landais
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Hunter
 
Illidan (EU)
Every 17/44 warrior play with 9% hit rating ?

With 209 hit rating (and 3/3 precision) i have so much miss hits, i doesn't imagine with just 9%

Nice job Voxx its a good compendium

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Old 03/09/08, 2:56 PM   #35
Witchking
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warrior
 
Kul Tiras
Originally Posted by K-Dog View Post
The AP bonus will not apply vs. boss like Archimonde.
but will apply to trashmobs or other world demons
This seems like something that should be brought up in the bug forums as there is nothing on [Elixir of Demonslaying] that states it is not effective on mobs above a certain level. Has anyone else verified this?

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Old 03/09/08, 2:59 PM   #36
Eledorian
Piston Honda
 
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Night Elf Warrior
 
Hellfire (EU)
Originally Posted by K-Dog View Post
The AP bonus will not apply vs. boss like Archimonde.
but will apply to trashmobs or other world demons
That would make no sense, seeing as the Glaives have +AP vs Demons as part of their setbonus.

I'm sure it does work, however it's not added on the normal AP.

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Old 03/09/08, 3:33 PM   #37
Hidden
King Hippo
 
Blood Elf Priest
 
Nazjatar (EU)
Originally Posted by Voxx View Post
35% base crit in Battle Stance and 2000 AP base in Battle Stance seems a bit off even for someone in 4/5 T6. I have less than 1800 unbuffed AP in Battle Stance and my gear isn't THAT bad. If I were to aim for 2000 in Battle Stance my crit would be nowhere near 35%.

Regardless, those stats are all very nice, but it doesn't prove Haste > Crit, or even that Haste > Hit.

In addition, why use Potency?
35% crit in Berserker Stance of course, you can see that I didn't add the 3% crit from Berserker Stance manually. Edited it for clarity.

The values are proven by current Warrior spreadsheets.

Potency is around 0.2 dps worse than Mongoose on static fights, as I've been switching weapons quite frequently I didn't want to spend 500g to have 0.2 dps more sometimes. For calculation of Haste it doesn't make a big difference anyway, it makes Haste even better as Mongoose may proc more often with more Haste(don't know recent results about PPM with Haste).

Last edited by Hidden : 03/09/08 at 4:25 PM.

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Old 03/09/08, 4:36 PM   #38
Enkidu
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Silvermoon (EU)
I just watched a video from a fury warrior pov where he forgot to take elixir of demonslaying straight on the pull. You can clearly see Bloodthirst damage changing by 123 after he drinks it on a 7700 AC mob with somewhat decent ARP gear (only MoTB was up on both occurances), the elixir is working fine.

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Old 03/09/08, 4:51 PM   #39
Voxx
Piston Honda
 
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Gnome Warlock
 
Whisperwind
I honestly have a hard time seeing Haste > Crit. Haste and Hit are much closer in comparison. Hit means that one more of your attack in 100 will land. Seeing as glancing blows are already accounted for, that hit is guaranteed to do 100% damage. Haste means you'll get 101 attacks in the same time span you would normally get 100 attacks. Since it's just an additional attack and not actually a value on the Attack Table it would be subject to missing, being dodged or being a glancing blow. Also being subject to critting of course.

This would mean it has a 25% chance to do 70% damage, a 3.6% + miss, chance to do 0 damage and however much your crit chance is chance to do double damage, the leftover being a normal hit. Glancing can be equated as a 17.5% chance to deal 100% damage, and the other 7.5% making up the 25% that is glancing chance is translated as a miss.

Assuming 13% hit and 40% crit, your extra hasted attack has a 26.1% chance to be worth 0 damage. a 40% chance to be worth 2x normal damage and a 21.1% chance to be worth normal damage (100% damage). Therefore a hasted attack is worth about 101.1% of an extra hit. Can you see how closely similar these two stats are now? If 15.77 Hit Rating is worth 700 damage then 15.77 Haste Rating is worth 707.7 damage.

There are of course a few other minor factors in this, Haste for instance will ever so slightly negatively influence your Flurry uptime because you'll be making more attacks in a shorter period of time, therefore getting fewer instant attacks per Flurry cycle. Hit won't. In any case, Hit and Haste are very very similar in worth.

As for the comment of PPM and Haste, as far as I know the PPM of Mongoose is calculated based on your current weapon speed. So Haste will have no effect on Mongoose uptime (this as opposed to PPM being calculated based on base weapon speed).

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Old 03/09/08, 6:37 PM   #40
Morrigan
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Gorgonnash (EU)
The formula for damage reduction via armor for a mob over level 60 is:

DR% = Armor / (Armor - 22167.5 + 467.5 * MobLevel)
That's true for you being hit by a mob, but since we're talking about outgoing damage here, 'MobLevel' should always be 70 (= the attacker's level), not 73.

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Old 03/09/08, 7:23 PM   #41
Voxx
Piston Honda
 
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Gnome Warlock
 
Whisperwind
Originally Posted by Morrigan View Post
That's true for you being hit by a mob, but since we're talking about outgoing damage here, 'MobLevel' should always be 70 (= the attacker's level), not 73.
Noted and fixed.

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Old 03/09/08, 8:21 PM   #42
issei
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Kalecgos
Thanks for compiling this resource, Voxx. Not only is it a great go-to thread for my own information, but any time someone levels a warrior alt in my guild, I can just point them here.

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Old 03/09/08, 8:26 PM   #43
shed
Don Flamenco
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Scilla
The one thing to remember about haste is that it does affect heroic spam, and I'm not sure if any spreadsheet is taking that into account. Heroic strike is pretty much the only mele ability that takes advantage of haste.

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Old 03/09/08, 8:40 PM   #44
Voxx
Piston Honda
 
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Gnome Warlock
 
Whisperwind
Originally Posted by shed View Post
The one thing to remember about haste is that it does affect heroic spam, and I'm not sure if any spreadsheet is taking that into account. Heroic strike is pretty much the only melee ability that takes advantage of haste.
This is true, but at any level of gear where you can't afford to Heroic Strike on every single Main-hand swing, Haste theoretically won't affect your Heroic Strike spam because you're not limited by weapon speed yet.

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Old 03/09/08, 8:58 PM   #45
Kolmar
Von Kaiser
 
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Tauren Warrior
 
Zul'Jin
[Dragonspine Trophy] and 3/5 Flurry proc will bring a 3.5 speed weapon to about 2.5; Heroism/Bloodlust will reduce it further to around 2.0, so the Slam cycle will not be optimal for that period of time.

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