• landsoul

Read the directions

 

• landsoul

The following test was conducted to figure out if mobs use the Coefficient for 50% armor reduction per level: Z = 467.5 * [TarLvL] - 22167.5
70: 10557.5
71: 11025
72: 11492.5
73: 11960

... that players do since people have questioned that they may not.

I went into the plateau with ogres just outside of shatt and collected some data hitting bloodthirst against some 71 / 72 ogres of the same type (the ones with the maces).

With 2853 static AP (rampage5 and Bshout) and 980 ArP, I hit each 71 and 72 ogres with a bloodthirst and recorded the data. I then went back and hit each 71 and 72 ogre with a bloodthirst after sundering them 5 times.

Here's the data:

71 nosunder = 854
71 sunder5 = 1012

72 nosunder = 839
72 sunder5 = 991

Now since we are working with 2 unknowns per level of mob (Coefficient and armor value) I had to come up with some math to solve for both, so we 100% know how level effects the coefficient.

[%DamageApplied] = Z / (armor + Z)
[%DamageApplied] = BT / .45[AP]
Z / (armor + Z) = BT / .45[AP]
.45[AP]Z = BTarmor + BTZ
Z(.45[AP] - BT) / BT = armor

First we need to solve for the armor value of the 71 and 72 respectively. Since we don't know Z, we had to come up with 2 sets of data, hence the 5 sunders, and then eliminate Z and solve for A.


71:
Z(.45[AP] - BT) / BT = armor-ArP-Sunder
Z = BT(armor-ArP-Sunder) / (.45[AP] - BT)

Z = 854(armor-980) / (.45[2853] - 854)
Z = 1012(armor-3580) / (.45[2853] - 1012)
854(armor-980) / (.45[2853] - 854) = 1012(armor-3580) / (.45[2853] - 1012)
armor = 6556

72 same method:
839(armor-980) / (.45[2853] - 839) = 991(armor-3580) / (.45[2853] - 991)
armor = 6854


Now we can re-plug these back in to find Z for both levels. And we can check it for all 4 levels of data.
Z = BT(armor-ArP-Sunder) / (.45[AP] - BT)
71:
Z = 854(6556-980) / (.45[2853] - 854) = 11078
Z = 1012(6556-3580) / (.45[2853] - 1012) = 11078
72:
Z = 839(6854-980) / (.45[2853] - 839) = 11078
Z = 991(6854-3580) / (.45[2853] - 991) = 11078


Hmm something definately strange going on here. I did re-double check everything and it worked out. There's no change in armor coefficient per level for this ogre but there's definately something weird about what it is initially. I will try out different types of mobs.

 

• landsoul

I did the same test only versus level 70 and 71 boars on Blades Edge Mountain. Same conditions apply and I made sure I didnt hit the shield.

70 nosunder = 828
70 sunder5 = 985

71 nosunder = 814
71 sunder5 = 963

70:
828(armor-980) / (.45[2853] - 828) = 985(armor-3580) / (.45[2853] - 985)
armor = 6772

71 same method:
814(armor-980) / (.45[2853] - 814) = 963(armor-3580) / (.45[2853] - 963)
armor = 7130

Now we can re-plug these back in to find Z for both levels. And we can check it for all 4 levels of data.
Z = BT(armor-ArP-Sunder) / (.45[AP] - BT)
70:
Z = 828(6772-980) / (.45[2853] - 828) = 10520
Z = 985(6772-3580) / (.45[2853] - 985) = 10520
71:
Z = 814(7130-980) / (.45[2853] - 814) = 10655
Z = 963(7130-3580) / (.45[2853] - 963) = 10655

Well It seems here that the numbers here are closer to the 70 level for both 70 and 71, quite a co-incidence. Could it be that Either A) blizzard didnt update the armor co-efficient with same type mob level variance, of B) this was intended.

It is conclusive though that the Coefficient did change with mob level and mob type in sync with the suggested forumla: Z = 467.5 * [TarLvL] - 22167.5

 

Whistles

Gladiator's 2.6 in MH doesn't have the 15 crit rating. In OH it does.

 

lynelle

Master Assassin Wristwraps are missing their socket and the socket bonus.

 

• landsoul

fixed and fixed and updated.

 

suicuique

There is no residual minimal miss/dodge/parry chance for melee attacks.
These can be eliminated completely.
This has been tested to death already and can be easily confirmed.

 

suicuique

Test:
Equip all passive haste gear you got (should be in 15%-20% range easily). Go to blasted lands and afk autoattack one of the invincible servants for some hrs. Note combat time and number of procs.

Now deequip all haste gear. Redo test. Note combat time and number of procs.

Compare.

When 2.3 hit live servers i did this and the result was that enchant/trinket procs did consider the hasted swing timer on autoattack hits. Read: haste *not improving* PPM.

On instants the base speed was still the deciding factor for proc chance. Read: haste *not deteriorating* PPM on instants.

 

Gruntle

Well, I don't believe in any residual dodge/parry chance either but I don't believe it has been proven quite yet. Miss chance can be completely eliminated, that has been "tested to death" I agree.

It's fairly certain that dodge chance vs lvl 73 bosses is somewhere around 6% (if it's 5.6 or 6.5 remains to be seen, but 5.6 is unlikely based on wws submitted in the DPS compendium thread), and that there is no residual miss chance when you have >6.5% reduced dodge (>3000 swings without any dodges). But I'd say that we need more data to be sure.

For parry I don't think anyone can say, as far as I know no one has been able to stack enough expertise to negate boss parries completely.

 

suicuique

Without backing up with WWS data, I can anecdotally tell that tanking the first 3 bosses in Hyjal/BT in OT gear (46 expertise: -11.5% tot dodge/parry) completely eliminates any dodges. Never seen one dodge in that gear. Though this is completely overkill and I have no desire to test where the dodge elimination cap really is. (though I suspect too above 6%)

You are right on that point ... and I was merely deducting from miss/dodge elimination to parry.
And from lower mobs (where parry is a non issue too) to bosses.

 

• landsoul

Now if we had some 74 mobs floating around, we could nail this problem right on the head with data from that. Unfortunately we don't. Does anyone have any data on this from pre-BC like in BWL or Naxx, etc? Maybe we can match it with that.

Like hit, it might make a non-linear step at +3 levels.
Say for instance, it might jump up from .2 per level to .4 per level making it 6.2% or .5 per level to 6.5%. I am absolutely positive its a per level related calc and not just a set number, it has to be either one or the other.

We need someone with -6.0% to dodge, with -6.25% to dodge, and -6.5% to dodge to send reports.

 

Infiniteone

I wanna know more about the Syphon of Nathrezim, I don't think its quite as bad as alot of people, including yer spreadsheet have pegged it. Has their just not been much research into it or what? Personally, I think the 2.8 speed + windfury is sex. I've seen a few people say it eats improved sbolt debuffs and other say it does not, anyone know anymore, maybe i missed the post that slammed it and everyone subsequently agreeing.

 

Kaan

(about MotB)
Not even in an ideal situation. This is what I wanted to prove. The maximum will be about 120-130 Armor Penetration, not more. There has been enough testing to prove this, and I think you rather have to prove, it is more than 1-2 PPM, which I have never seen in any WWS against bosses like Brutallus.
Allright, I have a WWS here with -6,0% dodge on Illidari Council which I think is good for such tests due to the length of the fight and the steady attacks on the boss (human racial on both weapons, 1,25% + shard, 2,75% + weapon mastery 2% = 6,0%): Wow Web Stats

5 auto-swings have been dodged.

(It's the current gear I'm wearing in the arsenal)

 

• landsoul

Well what my sheet currently does, when an item that is equipped that can proc off main hand and offhand, it conputes the following formula:

(total attacks using the main hand per second * main hand weapon speed + total attacks using the off hand per second * off hand weapon speed) * 1.0 PPM = procs per minute

procs per minute * duration time / 60 = % uptime

I know there are tests saying that hasted or flurried speeds decrease the proc chance on the on swing attacks but I am not really convinced by them (yet).

With top end gear, mongoose, haste, and flurry, the uptime gets quite high just by the nature of the formula. Also note that the formula DOES NOT take into account procs overlapping themself. The ideal nature of it makes the % uptime unrealistically high, but keep in mind this is a spreadsheet in progress, modeled in an ideal environment. Its left at it is due to there currently being no other means or proofs regarding it.

 

Tzel

I have never used OpenOffice and am operating on a Mac. How do I open this spreadsheet without it coming up as gibberish in Writer? Call me an idiot, but I tried for 30 minutes yesterday and couldn't figure it out :-(

 

Whistles

Since OpenOffice is open-source it's been compiled on all kinds of platforms. I'd just download the Mac version and give it a whirl. I doubt you'll be able to get everything working completely in another software.

download: OpenOffice.org Download

 

Tzel

I did that first off. What I tried to say was that I downloaded both OpenOffice and the FuryDps folder from the front page, but I don't know which file to open and how - everything I try comes up as coded gibberish in Writer.

 

Apate

Did you try starting open office first, then using the "Open" command (File - > Open for us windows people) to read the sheet? That would cut Writer out of the loop.

See you, auntie.

 

scoTTy

What do I enter in the "AGI"column next to expose weakness? I tried putting in the agility of our hunter when raid buffed, and it brought me from 1900ish dps to 2500ish dps, which doesn't make much sense. I also tried putting in 25% of our hunter's agility which gets used for expose weakness, and that still brought me up to 2200-2300ish, which still seems abnormally high.

I'm also a bit weary about how crit and str are being compared. Lately I've hit what I consider to be really low crit levels (29% unbuffed in zerker stance) and the spreadsheet still claims I should go pure 10str in every socket. It just doesn't feel right, I don't know... thoughts?

 

Tzel

First off - sorry for being an idiot and asking the same question three times.

I think I should spell out my problem more. I have downloaded (and installed) OpenOffice. I have also downloaded the file from the FileFront link on the first page of this thread. The FileFront download gives me a folder called "FuryDps" in which are several other folders and files like "meta.xml", "settings.xml", etc. Which of the files in this folder do I open? or am I going about the whole thing incorrectly? If so, any help would be appreciated.

 

dr_AllCOM3

To recap some things, mainly for my own uses:

- Haste does not grant more procs for autoattacks, but doesn't affect PPM for instant attacks.
- Haste doesn't affect rage per hit at all.

 

duvar

Would it be possible to post an Excel version? I know OpenOffice is the "cross platform standard", but a lot of people already have spreadsheet software installed on their computers in the form of MS Excel, and it would be nice to not have to install a second spreadsheet software just for this one spreadsheet. I don't know anything about OpenOffice, but I think I remember hearing that it will automatically save in XLS for you as one of its options. If so, maybe it would be easy for you to post both versions.

Thanks

 

Whistles

What you download from Filefront should only be one file and it should be FuryDPS*.ods. I'm not sure how you're getting a folder from the download. Perhaps try it again?

 

Grymm

Maybe I missed something entirely, but I haven't seen where "haste doesn't affect rage at all." Rage is the average of a damage/constantA value with a speed*constantb value. Assuming the ConstantA value doesn't change and haste doesn't decrease how hard you hit, merely the time between attacks, then haste would result in an increase in rage generation equal to rough half the percent haste. If you attack twice as fast (100% haste) you would get 50% more rage. I am aware that the second term in the equation is haste dependent.

Has the leading term of the rage formula (damage/constantA) been proven to be effected by haste and I missed it? If so, can I get a simple link or page number/thread title to go read up on it?

 

Tzel

So now I managed to get the FuryDps1.205.ods.zip downloaded. However, opening the zip file still gives me a folder called "FuryDps1.205.ods" and not a file. How do I get it to give me the actual file?