The current model for Dragonstrikes proc in the spreadsheet seems to assume a single 212 haste buff that get refresh all the time. From the post of screen capture from testserver it look like Two independent buff that could stack.
The proc model will have lots impact on actual dps.
I read earlier in this thread that haste doesn’t impact or could lower proc ppm and also another contradictory post that said some shammy are able to get 4 ppm with the ds. http://elitistjerks.com/731685-post436.html
Has there been any serious testing done on DS with a hasted and non hasted build to calculate if the DS proc ppm varies or stay constant?
I suspect that even the buff stacks and if we can model this really well that it will show similar results unless haste help scale DS ppm proc. If not the lack of stats on the DS and low base DPS compare to 2.4 badges weapons make it second choice or even obsolete. Blizzard should create another tier update for weaponsmith with sunmotes.
One thing to note is that hit rating SEP benefits a lot from a heavily hasted build so that explain why vanir’s left of brutality is working so well with a DS main hand. With 2xDS my hit rating SEP is 1.068 with one it’s with 1DS and VLB its 0.638.
Edit:
Also I just noted that the %up time for the DS is 28.58% for MH alone (or 60.59 static haste),18.02% for OH (or 38.2 static haste) and 46.88% (or 99.38 static haste). Where is the difference coming from? Hit rating? The build I am looking at has 114.
One thing to note is that hit rating SEP benefits a lot from a heavily hasted build so that explain why vanir’s left of brutality is working so well with a DS main hand. With 2xDS my hit rating SEP is 1.068 with one it’s with 1DS and VLB its 0.638.
I think the only way youre seeing that big of a discrpency in the value of hit rating is if your not hitting Control+Shift+Y to recalculate enough times after changing stuff.
The current model for Dragonstrikes proc in the spreadsheet seems to assume a single 212 haste buff that get refresh all the time. From the post of screen capture from testserver it look like Two independent buff that could stack.
The proc model will have lots impact on actual dps.
I read earlier in this thread that haste doesn’t impact or could lower proc ppm and also another contradictory post that said some shammy are able to get 4 ppm with the ds. http://elitistjerks.com/731685-post436.html
Has there been any serious testing done on DS with a hasted and non hasted build to calculate if the DS proc ppm varies or stay constant?
I suspect that even the buff stacks and if we can model this really well that it will show similar results unless haste help scale DS ppm proc. If not the lack of stats on the DS and low base DPS compare to 2.4 badges weapons make it second choice or even obsolete. Blizzard should create another tier update for weaponsmith with sunmotes.
One thing to note is that hit rating SEP benefits a lot from a heavily hasted build so that explain why vanir’s left of brutality is working so well with a DS main hand. With 2xDS my hit rating SEP is 1.068 with one it’s with 1DS and VLB its 0.638.
Edit:
Also I just noted that the %up time for the DS is 28.58% for MH alone (or 60.59 static haste),18.02% for OH (or 38.2 static haste) and 46.88% (or 99.38 static haste). Where is the difference coming from? Hit rating? The build I am looking at has 114.
Does anyone read these posts anymore before they post?
Statistically, spreadsheets cannot calculate permutations, IE the benefits of having two of something up at the same time, versus having them up one after the other. Only averages and average relationships.
This tool has very specific directions, and I suggest you exhaust all of your options before posting.
A simple way to check if your calculations are final is to check the SEP of AP, as it should be constantly .909 with kings.
Hello, long time lurker here.
First off I just want to say AWESOME job to landsoul. Your spreadsheet is incredible and has answered countless 'I wonder if.' questions since ive discovered it.
Anyways, I've looked around the forums and, not sure if this even belongs on this thread, but I was curious if there was any way to get more specific about calculating trinket DPS. In particular Berserker's Call versus trinkets such as Madness of the Betrayer and Tsunami Talisman. My question is could there be a way to set up scenario's calculating the damage of popping BC at peak times. When I raid we have two people popping drums every cooldown, and a minimum of 1 bloodlust somewhere around 20%. I can't be certain but my non-mathematical mind tends to lead toward boosting BC value knowing that I pop it, along with a haste potion and sometimes my orc racial, at the beginning of a drums and also at 20% drums/bloodlust/recklessness. Thoughts?
Just fyi, i read and re-read all these post on this forums. i am aware that you need to let the spreadsheet settle down to get accurate number. (i have like 5-6 different version saved) So i think i know what is going on when i report something.
The high sep for hit rating with 2xDS is gone in last version.
My question about haste and ds proc ppm wasnt related to your spreadsheet. i understand the problem with permutation. I was curious to see if it has been tested or not.
Hello, long time lurker here.
First off I just want to say AWESOME job to landsoul. Your spreadsheet is incredible and has answered countless 'I wonder if.' questions since ive discovered it.
Anyways, I've looked around the forums and, not sure if this even belongs on this thread, but I was curious if there was any way to get more specific about calculating trinket DPS. In particular Berserker's Call versus trinkets such as Madness of the Betrayer and Tsunami Talisman. My question is could there be a way to set up scenario's calculating the damage of popping BC at peak times. When I raid we have two people popping drums every cooldown, and a minimum of 1 bloodlust somewhere around 20%. I can't be certain but my non-mathematical mind tends to lead toward boosting BC value knowing that I pop it, along with a haste potion and sometimes my orc racial, at the beginning of a drums and also at 20% drums/bloodlust/recklessness. Thoughts?
Its best to put any cooldown trinkets on cooldown all the time. Usually haste potions, drums, etc co-incide with the cooldown of the trinket. If you ware waiting to pop your trinket then you are wasting its potential. Yes, there are increasing returns (especially when pairing haste or IAS with AP) when stacking different procs at the same time, but you can't play scientist to try and win at guessing when proc abilities are going to pup up so you can tap your trinket at a good time to stack with it.
At the end when I know heroism will be popped at 20% and I have my recklessness up, I definitely would save a trinket and haste potion for that time to use them all together. You will pass people on the meter if you aren't #1 already when you do that.
Since there are so many different combinations of stacking abilities, trying to represent that would take too much computational work for anyone to bother to do. The spreadsheet assumes an average amount of and displays it throughout the entire DPS.
Is the Elixir of Demonslaying equation working in the spreadsheet? I've tried to use the function and it gave no DPS increase. Sorry if this has been mentioned before.
Is the Elixir of Demonslaying equation working in the spreadsheet? I've tried to use the function and it gave no DPS increase. Sorry if this has been mentioned before.
Are you sure you've set the "Demon?" value to 1 in the Talents and Raid tab?
I find myself in a position where my Bandwidth is limited so I have to use the tools (in this case MS Excel) I have.
I took the liberty to use an online converter to put the .ODS in the .XLS format, it'll be available for download for 120 days after I've posted this message at Media Convert
(just wait for the 10second timer to go, and then you can choose to either directly download the .XLS or download the zipped version of the .XLS).
I've spent three weeks trying to come to a decision, but I'm having trouble in regards to Vanir's Right Fist vs. Dragonstrike. I plugged it into the latest spreadsheet last night and double checked everything; in the end Vanir came out to be about 9 dps higher. It's obvious the stats and raw dps are superior, it just comes down to the DS' haste proc and the fact that I'm a human, so I get the racial bonus.
I've read all the warrior threads for a consensus, but I'm not finding one. Anyone have any opinions? I don't want to spend the badges and enchanting mats if it turns out to not actually be better. /SIGH at fist weapons. Thank you very much.
I've spent three weeks trying to come to a decision, but I'm having trouble in regards to Vanir's Right Fist vs. Dragonstrike. I plugged it into the latest spreadsheet last night and double checked everything; in the end Vanir came out to be about 9 dps higher. It's obvious the stats and raw dps are superior, it just comes down to the DS' haste proc and the fact that I'm a human, so I get the racial bonus.
I've read all the warrior threads for a consensus, but I'm not finding one. Anyone have any opinions? I don't want to spend the badges and enchanting mats if it turns out to not actually be better. /SIGH at fist weapons. Thank you very much.
Im in the same boat, i have all the mats sitting there to make a 2nd DS, and the badges to buy the fist, im just unsure what way to go, I know what will look cooler thou
I've spent three weeks trying to come to a decision, but I'm having trouble in regards to Vanir's Right Fist vs. Dragonstrike. I plugged it into the latest spreadsheet last night and double checked everything; in the end Vanir came out to be about 9 dps higher. It's obvious the stats and raw dps are superior, it just comes down to the DS' haste proc and the fact that I'm a human, so I get the racial bonus.
I've read all the warrior threads for a consensus, but I'm not finding one. Anyone have any opinions? I don't want to spend the badges and enchanting mats if it turns out to not actually be better. /SIGH at fist weapons. Thank you very much.
My spreadsheet is defaulting Tauren as having a higher dps than a Nelf in the same gear. How does this work? As far as I know neither have racials to increase damage output.
Pretty sure the poster was asking about the RIGHT fist, which is the one that goes in the MH, not dual-wielding Dragonstrikes. In which case, if the Vanir's comes out better in the MH by 9 DPS, then go with the Vanir's.
For me, Vanir's MH is 7 dps better than Dragonstrike.
If you have tons of spare badges, go for it. But it is fairly expensive. Dragonstrike is a reasonable substitute if you dont have tons of badges, or some other good option.
Right now [Netherbane] is showing up to me as having lower DPS than [Breeching Comet], when socketed with 4crit/str. I just don't see how this is possible with any gear configuration. And yes, I have done control-shift-y after I change items.
My spreadsheet is defaulting Tauren as having a higher dps than a Nelf in the same gear. How does this work? As far as I know neither have racials to increase damage output.
Base strength is higher for a tauren I think? Or is the difference very large?
Right now [Netherbane] is showing up to me as having lower DPS than [Breeching Comet], when socketed with 4crit/str. I just don't see how this is possible with any gear configuration. And yes, I have done control-shift-y after I change items.
7 Agi, 4.4 DPS vs 4 str, 4 crit, and 4AP
That seems wrong I must say, both are axes so they should both give you the racial expertise. 4.4 dps should be worth more than the 4 str+4 AP (that's worth roughly 1 dps since 14 AP = 1 dps=> 12 AP will give about 1 dps if you account for extra rage generation), 4 crit is more or less equal to 7 agi. Maybe one of the weapons have some wrong stats entered (or perhaps Netherbane is not listed as an axe?).
I haven't changed my Open Office install in any way (I use it for work all the time), all I did was download the new sheet. Stupidly I deleted the old one so can't check if that still works to eliminate my Open Office as the problem.
Does the cell content reappear when you scroll up and down? I'm having the exact same problem with Linux and OpenOffice 2.2 and with all spreadsheet versions. Since I have no problems under Windows XP, I blamed the Linux window manager.
Yeah not much help from me, but I don't think it is a spreadsheet problem.
05/02/08, 3:20 PM
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