Dots

Enrage procs from PvP gear on live because it is an 'on crit' effect and Resilience gives you a chance equal to your -crit% value to proc those. It has been changed to work on any kind of damage taken now, so PvP gear doesn't affect it anymore. I did actually test this without resilience gear and it works on environmental damage.

 

Solifer

about damage with SS:

issue: rage starved
answer: we need something like "you gain double rage for damage when you are using arms or fury stance while whilding a shield."

 

Skragg

So a question for anyone in the beta. I know in the OP they mentioned that the way Titans Grip was in June, it looked cool but wasn't much for DPS.

I was curious if the new TG (15% miss chance for damage-dealing abilities that require a weapon as opposed to slower Attack Speed) was any better? I REALLY want this talent to be good.

 

Soloman

Well the way I understand it the 20% slow was really bad because it directly nerfed rage generation. However it didnt touch the yellow damage.

They reversed it and made it nerf the yellow and leave the white alone.

One of the reasons I can think they did it is because its possible that TG does not function well at the old hit cap (9% and change). It may be that the weapons simply require alot more hit to make the spec function correctly.

If for example for TG to work correctly you needed say 20% hit, they know fury warriors are not going to change their gear unless a spreadsheet somewhere proves that 20% hit is needed to achieve optimal DPS.

This leaves them with two options, change TG to also add 11% (or so) chance to white hit in addition to the ability to equip 2h in one hand. Or, they can make it so you need more hit to reach the yellow hit cap. They chose the latter.


Again this is mostly unfounded, but it does seem plausible to me. If I'm way off base please let me know.

 

DarkS

Can someone with access to Titan's Grip in PTR or Beta tell me if you can use Polearms? I know that the description says Swords, Maces, Axes, but as Axes/Polearms are closely related in some talents I thought that maybe are "TG'able"...

 

hellord

No you can't equip polearms or staves, only those weapons specified in the tooltip.

ArP Whore

 

MeanVanilla

I'm a few pages late I realize, but regarding the changes that was done to recklessness my feeling is that it is the opposite of what blue have been talking about, making the class fun. I for one liked the way old recklessness worked, sure the cool down was very long, but it added to the thrill of actually timing it for the right try.
It has gone from one of the most entertaining and fun skills, to sometimes mostly annoying (you have to find a GCD for it, and when you do it doesn't pack any real oomph anyways). I for one would not object to reverting it to a bit longer cool down but pack some more punch.

And regarding the Armed to the Teeth talent, it feels like it's a flirt with fury warriors to avoid the leather gear mostly. The effect of this talent is still so low that the itemization will more or less force us into leather to get our hit up in the beginning anyways. But wouldn't putting this talent higher up in the tree and increasing it's value (or maybe even change it around a bit) be a way to improve it?

Also, on Beta I still got a miss on BT this weekend on 14+% hit, wasn't the hit penalty taken off BT this build or is it bugged?

Cheers,
McRoth

 

Machinator

[quote=MeanVanilla;913951I for one liked the way old recklessness worked, sure the cool down was very long, but it added to the thrill of actually timing it for the right try.[/QUOTE]

There isnt any thrill in not having recklessness up because you killed a boss 20 minutes ago.

"Information is ammunition."

 

Barmbul

I agree however there is nothing new about getting three whole crits in a row! lol I do that all the time and without using a GCD. They need to buff this somehow.

Armory profile

 

Bogeyman

They've specifically changed BT so you need a melee weapon to use it so you will get the TG penalty applied to it.

Is anyone still playing with the arms DW sudden death spec? I've tried everything so far and its still the only build I've actually found fun and engaging to play other than prot, probably due to bladestorm being a lot of fun. I dinged 75 on the weekend and I'm actually quite liking enraged regeneration, despite it being a ripoff of the feral druid talent.

Arms and fury still seem to need a lot of work but prot is just a load of fun. Seeing bigger shield slam crits than the BT crits I was getting is still very strange though. Can't wait til they change Tclap to no target limit as it should make pulling a whole bunch of mobs and bashing them down a lot easier. My warrior feels a lot better as a 5 man tank than he did in TBC definitely a lot closer to a pally in terms of aoe threat (I swore after levelling in instances as a prot pally I'd never go back to my warrior as a tank), plus you can take on a lot of the group quests solo if the mob has a lot of melee damage.

 

Calcabrina

The warrior in the screenshot is my own pg on EU ptr server.
I was wearing PvE gear and 0 resilience (but it's the same: as u said at the end of ur post, atm enrage procs from any damaging source, critical or not).
Enrage seems to proc from any enviromental damage too (in this screenshot i was simply standing on a brazier).
So, if they dont change it, it's a pve "must have" talent.

 

dr_AllCOM3

At the moment it gives you +100% crit until you've done three specials.

 

Barmbul

I realize how the talent works but the talent gives us a 100% chance to do something that at endgame gear levels we will be able to do on a regular basis without the talent. As our gear improves the damage difference of using the talent will decrease.

Armory profile

 

Shha

As for recklessness I posted few pages ago some ideas, let me add stuff up though

1) Its currently pretty weak for fury, and VERY weak for arms builds.

a) Fury can hope for 100% crit for ~10 seconds, so thats actually decent. Granted you cant use specials, but using recklessness early on after a BT-WW , means you will probably have it up until next BT cames up. Since white damage makes most of TG damage, its somewhat decent - but nothing too amazing. You waste the tons of rage you generate, by not being able to use Heroic Strike.

b) For arms it is pretty bad. The whole "deal" is simple. Lose a Slam because of gcd use for reck. Crit lets say MS + 2 slams (thats best you can hope, WW is less damage). Crit 2 white swings. With a very rough estimate, we lose 1 special attack we change 1.5 attack to 1.5 crit for specials (given 50% crit which isnt hard with arms). Given impale thats around 0.66 "special attack" gained. We also crit 2 whites at 75% instead of 50% - so 0.5 of a white attack. All in all we loook into getting maybe ~3k damage at 70. Every 5 mins. Aka 10dps. Thats a bit meh for our only arms cooldown.

I think recklessness should : Get off GCD. Thats a very strong belief of mine. Right now its just too weak with GCD burden.

Another way to buff it is go back to 15 sec duration, but instead of 100% crit, make it give you +20% crit for 15 seconds/+20% damage taken. For PvE purposes it will become a really strong CD, but nothing insane, and it wont totally overpower it for arenas (which is reason its in its current shape).

 

Cronax

Would that include Bloodrage? (excuse me if I messed up the name I mess up all the -rage skills, I mean the one where you get 10 rage and then get some more rage at the cost of health)
If so that would feel like an exploit to me, but I'm no warrior expert...

 

Voxx

No it won't, Bloodrage "damage" is not counted in the same way as environmental or any other source of damage.

 

Lemurian

Just had a question reguarding Imp Spell Reflect. Is the 6% less chance to be hit act like resistance? Or is there more to it than that. Im just trying to get a guage on how powerful this talent is, Im not too worried about the reflection part so much as the spell avoidance part.

The build I'm toying around with is: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

But depending on the importance of Imp Spell Reflect I might go with Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I wish they wouldnt have hammered Armored to the Teeth as bad as they did but I suppose it was too good to be true.

 

Darian_TruBlade

The 20% slow didn't have a significant effect on rage generation beyond making it unstable. Haste in generally only has a minimal effect on rage generation. The reason the slow was so bad was because it reduced AP scaling for white damage by 20%. As a result, TG was a white DPS loss for a barely equivalent yellow DPS increase.

TG functioned perfectly fine with the normal hit cap, the hit reduction is because it functioned too well.

I hadn't realized Recklessness worked in this way. While it's counter-intuitive, I find it very interesting.

Recklessness actually shouldn't depreciate in value significantly until after you've hit the full white hit/expertise caps. Until then, so long as you get 1% hit or expertise per 1% crit Recklessness' white DPS increase doesn't change thanks to the 1 roll table normal melee swings follow.

Recklessness lasts for 12 seconds, so one could theoretically squeeze 2 WWs inside that (one at 1.5 seconds and one at 11.5 seconds). Throw a BT in 2 or so seconds before WW and you have what is likely the optimal Recklessness "rotation".

I think I'm actually quite fond of Recklessness in this form. You can't use HS and have to be careful with your specials, but it's not too obtrusive. The only issue I see is that your average player isn't going to be keyed into its functionality. Blizzard generally likes to avoid such a situation.

 

Fellwraith

It's an additional 4% chance for a mob spell to miss. Normally they have a ~5% chance to miss. I don't think it does anything for a mob like Hydross' melee swings, but it works on fireballs, arcanebolts, burn, etc. If the attack can be "resisted" today, it can miss - this talent almost doubles that chance. For a full mitigation/MT build, you'd want it.

It's definitely better than imp bloodrage, and you've taken that in the build you linked. 2 talent points for 10 rage a minute is not worth it. I really don't know why people keep linking builds with that talent taken. Between heroic throw, misdirect and dirty tricks, you'll be fine waiting for an auto attack before you shieldslam.

 

Lemurian

Thanks for clearing that up, and you have a pretty valid point about the imp bloodrage. For the most part I was just worried about rage starvation (since a lot of people seem to have mentioned this.) but I guess I'll have to see being bored at work gives me plenty of time to read over these posts.

 

Voxx

The problem I see with Recklessness in it's current form is that it:
a) substitutes a GCD for a buff instead of a special attack which is a dps increase* albeit a small one
b) is very, very, very weak for the buff it gives in comparison to say, Deathwish
c) forces warriors to limit the use of their special attacks because they want the "right" ones to crit, which subsequently lowers their dps in a way

*looking at Recklessness from this point of view: it's not necessarily a dps gain at all because it is (or at least it is supposed to be from the way I read it) granting 3 special attacks and no more. It's been mentioned that it currently grants 100% crit for all attacks until 3 special attacks are made, I'm pretty sure that's not what it's intended to do at all. The chances of those three special attacks critting anyway with say 40% crit (not too unreasonable from a raid buffed standpoint) is 6.4% chance. Recklessness in it's current form (as I've interpreted it at least) merely guarantees us burst, not dps. It guarantees that in a certain span of time those attacks WILL crit; that we can depend on it. It does not mean that we are guaranteed crits that would not otherwise have happened. With an average of even 33% crit, most uses of Recklessness would really only "grant" us 2 crits because the chances are that one of the three attacks would be a crit anyway. Recklessness is really like a Combustion ability for Warriors which, in my opinion, is a pretty harsh reduction in utility from it's old version.

Edit: I have no idea why there's a funny square in my post, I can't even seem to get rid of it.

 

Chirality

Funny square in your post? Not sure what you're referring to--I don't see one. [Edit: Nevermind I see it now. /facepalm.]

Recklessness also requires Berserker Stance, no? Which makes it even more useless to Arms, assuming that they tweak the talents a bit more such that Battle Stance is what arms warriors end up in.

 

JTLJudoMan

After a bit of thinking I believe I agree with the assessment that Recklessness needs to be taken off of the GCD.

On a side note, has anyone figured out how to do cast sequence macros on the Beta?

I attempted one to do recklessness and BT for insta-slam procs... But failed miserably. It seemed to do the first spell but not the second.

I always like to build as many things into one button as I can... I have my trinkets bound to ww and bt currently and thought it would be good to tie one trink to ww, reck to bt and another trink to HS but couldn't get the macro mentioned above to work. =-\

My dps warrior sucks (gear wise) by the way. He's only lvl 71 and he's in mostly s1/s2 gear. Even with the hit penalty (from TG) I still find myself to be higher dps than an arms build. I've tried the rend overpower build and found it to be somewhat cumbersome.

 

Darian_TruBlade

Recklessness in its current, probably bugged form is a DPS increase. But yes, if we assume the tooltip is the intended functionality then Recklessness is not a particularly useful DPS talent.

If we assume that Blizzard will fix Recklessness, then its uses are extremely situational, and mostly non-DPS. A Prot Warrior can use Recklessness to open a boss fight with some impressive burst threat if they can afford to take the extra damage (Prince or Gruul or any farm content). Its DPS uses are far more limited. If you really need to burst something down you can, but only once every 3ish minutes. It's best used, perhaps, whenever you're forced to step away from the boss. Hitting it on your way back in guarantees getting Flurry back up.

As a DPS ability the tooltip version is really lackluster. I really like the "probably bugged" version because it has tradeoffs for PvP. You can crit 100% of your white attacks for the duration and take extra damage, or go for pure instant burst.

 

Voxx

The other option with the current implementation of Recklessness (bugged or not) is that you can still use two of your three charges and maintain the 100% crit for the remainder of the ability's duration. So if you use Recklessness just after a BT immediately followed by Whirlwind, you could get 4.5 seconds of 100% crits at no limitation to your rotation (bar Slam/Heroic Strike) and then maintain the last charge until the very end of the buff.

In any case, it need some tuning I think.