Dots

Glyph of Blocking is implemented and working on beta.
Devastating a mob with both Glyph of Devastate on Glyph of Sunder Armor results in 2 SA debuffs on your target and 1 SA debuff on the second mob. About the threat on the second mob, Satrina did some tests over on Tankspot, might want to look there.

 

renegar

It is in-game, you can buy it from the glyph vendors in Dalaran if they haven't crashed yet.

Glyphs of Sunder Armor and Devastate result in 2 Devastates on the primary target and 1 on the secondary target. As for the threat done, Satrina did some testing and posted her results on tankspot:

WoW 3.0 Threat Values - TankSpot

 

Zegai

Oh, that's good then.

It's a rare recipe then? Haven't seen it on trainers last time I tried going there to see.

 

Dots

It was on the Glyph vendors, but those are now gone. I don't think it has ever been on the trainer.

 

Sohlee

well considering that you need at 70 16 hit rating to increase your Titans grip damage by 1% but 22 crit to increase it equally hit will become the most valuable stat for warriors am i right?

I know i didn't calculate in flurry / deep wounds but i also didn't do it with the fact that you also lose crit because of the 2 roll system for specials.

 

mistersix

You won't need to worry about rage while leveling so you're safe to dump puncture and improved disciplines. Concussion blow is nice burst threat and dps. It might sound odd but I also advocate picking up vigilance early to get used to working with it.

Threat won't be so much of an issue at the onset either so you can ease into attt or cruelty. Like fellwraith mentioned earlier in this thread mobs don't hit so hard so the avoidance talents may be a better choice than toughness. I personally love combining warbringer with improved charge.

Something like this has some of the same spirit of what you were thinking but with some of the feedback proposed above.

 

Darkrenown

Untill reading these last few pages I hadn't noticed the range on taunt was increased for everyone, I thought it was a DK only change, which I thought was fine as they're a bit less mobile than beas or warriors (yes they have Death Grip but that's also their mocking blow). I don't really think the range is needed for us, but it should be handy anyway.

So EU got premades this week, and I managed to get a 80 warrior before the system went into meltdown. I heard the US premades had their armour full of resi, but ours were all socketed with crit. I specced pro:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...00000000000000 and beat on the Boss level dummys for a while and I was very pleased with the results. 1300DPS (that's what, 2691TPS?) just doing SS, Dev*3/hitting SS whenever S&B procced. I wasn't hitting HS that much, but rage was a non-issue with 0 incoming damage.

I then ran around killing 76-78 mobs for a while, basicly there was no downtime ever. What little damage I took was healed up by enraged regen every 3 mins.

Next I tried some PvP in Strand of the ancients, it was a lot of fun being Frost Novaed, then reflecting their first cast and silencing them with Heroic Throw during their 2nd, then charging them when it broke. It sometimes took a while to kill people, but we can have decent burst when S&B procs during SB. My one complaint about PvPing as Prot is that you can't hamstring in defstance, otherwise I'd never leave it.

Fun fact about Heroic Throw, there's no minimum range, I'm not sure if that's intended or not, but you can really lock down casters with that, Shield Bash, Conc Blow and Shockwave.

 

Khab

I'm trying to test out the new Armour Pen rating.

The result :


Mob Modified Armour = ( Mob Armour - Sunder - CoR/FF ) * ( 1 - Armour Pen Rating%) - 840 from Executioner proc

This mean if Blizz don't change Executioner Proc from 850 Solid Armour to Armour Pen rating, Executioner is still worth to keep on MH Weapons.

The new Armour Pen Rating nerf Armour Pen Gears, but it doesn't make Armour Pen gear totally Useless in PvE.

IE : Boss have 7700 Armour
5Sunder is - 2600
CoR/FF is -610

==> Bosses have 4490 Armour after Debuff

On live my Amour Pen gear is 994
On PTR with the same gear i have 19.18% Armour Pen. 19.18% of 4490 = 861

Which mean i lose around 130 Armour Pen. The higher Armour Pen you have on live, the higher Diminishing Return you get in 3.02. Since Armour Pen its self having Increasing Return for dmg gain, we can consider that Armour Pen is Relative stats now, no Diminishing and no Increasing Return anymore.
There's some Squishy Bosses that have 6200 Armour, the new Armour Pen will be sux.

What's best of this new change is Rogue will have more Armour Pen over the Plate Wearer in PvP, and Armour Pen Gear don't own clothie anymore. And when you going solo grinding mobs, the new Armour Pen is great since there's no Sunder or FF/CoR .

Don't walk in-front of me, i might not follow
Don't walk behind me, i might not lead
Just walk beside me, be my friend.

(ps: walking beside a Tank ? WW and Cleave inc)

 

DarthGreg

7700 boss armor is a best-case scenario for armor penetration rating, and in Sunwell only applies to Brutallus and Entropius. At 6200 armor (Kalecgos, Sathrovarr, Felmyst, Sacrolash, Alythess, Kil'jaeden), your armor penetration gear goes from 994 armor reduction to 573, a reduction of over 420. On live my guild is progressing through Kil'jaeden, and I'm wearing upwards of 1500 armor ignore; in 3.0 it will suddenly be worth 662 reduction, a loss of 838.

That loss is nothing but staggering.

Right now I'm looking not only at re-gearing for +hit for Titan's Grip, but to switch all my armor penetration gear over to haste since it's such a bad stat for PvE in 3.0.

Hopefully all the changes and nerfs to raiding will be enough that I don't have to have decent gear to kill KJ. We'll just have to see.

 

Khab

Yeah at 6200 Senario Armour Pen Rating is bad.

But you don't really have to worry about KJ in 3.02, since he'll nerfed with 30% less hp and people with 51point talent will suppose to do more dmg or more healing. The only trouble about raiding in 3.02 is all of your mod broken and people might or might not show up or they showing up but not knowing how to play their roll properly.

What i'm thinking now is about the data of WotLK Raids where bosses Armour is alot higher, can anyone doing the Test in Naxx with Armour Pen and post the result ?

The bosses Armour will fall into 2 cases: 34.15% or 39.15 . If this one and DR% Fomular stay the same for lv80. We'll have

34.15% case = boss have 7900 Armour
39.15% case = boss have 9800 Armour

Can anyone confirm/deny the changes or no changes in DR% Fomular and lv83 bosses in Naxx and post Naxx.

Don't walk in-front of me, i might not follow
Don't walk behind me, i might not lead
Just walk beside me, be my friend.

(ps: walking beside a Tank ? WW and Cleave inc)

 

Stink

With SWP plate gear being heavy in armor pen and low in hit, I'm anxiously awaiting a 3.0 spreadsheet to figure out what the best-in-slot plate items are in the 3.0 TG environment. I've seen several people here reference using their own personal spreadsheets, would anyone care to share their current estimates?

 

Khab

For my stats :

Armour Pen 19.18%
Crit raid buffed 41%
Haste 8.4%
Have imp WF totem
12%Hit (after talent)
dodge immune
TG Spec and DW Blade of Harbringer (150 badges Axe)

My sheet give me these Result :

1 Hit = 1.486 DPS
1 Crit = 1.342 DPS
1 Haste = 0.729 DPS
1 Str = 0.765 DPS (with Kings and 10% AP buff)
1 AP = 0.347 DPS ( with 10% AP buff )
1 Armour Pen rating on gear = 0.876 DPS

The new Armour Pen Rating follow this rule :
Armour Pen Rating % = Armour Pen rating * 0.135

IE : your Plate gear have 30.7 Armour Pen Rating ==> you have 4.14% Armour Pen .

With bosses that already have sunder and FF/CoR , 4.14% Armour Pen will give me around 1% more dmg with my current 19.18% Armour Pen.


Hope these number help when you wonder which plate gear to pick. It's just my sheet for my own Toon. But generally you can see Hit is the Crown King follow by Crit and then Str. Armour Pen Rating having Strange Item budget so it's hard to compare the value.

As we have talk about TG along time ago, -15% hit Penalty mean Hit gem = no brain choice and that's true . My guess is when you getting near hit cap, socket Crit will give you better DPS but it's not like the cap is easy to get.

Edit: fix some typo and Blade of Harbringer is Axe (not Polearm, my bad)

Don't walk in-front of me, i might not follow
Don't walk behind me, i might not lead
Just walk beside me, be my friend.

(ps: walking beside a Tank ? WW and Cleave inc)

 

Liar

It's good. Period. Noone forces you or anyone else to use it from range now that you can do it. If you don't like it, go into melee range, taunt and pull it back as usualy - nothing is preventing you from doing that.

That said, I think the new taunt is awesome. I have done a drive-by taunt on lots of mobs while tanking my usual mob(s) and a few times my white hits would connect on the to-be-taunted mob while taunt didn't trigger. I think it's lag and I am sure you can relate to this (you run into melee range, you hit it then taunt and move back just to see your taunt not being on CD) so having a bigger error treshhold to do this now is a welcome change. I would have been extremely happy with a 2-3 yard increase so anything else beyond that is just a nifty bonus. It also opens up some really creative kiting moves so that's always nice.

Unexpected TankPoints error Clearly someone doesn't understand how EH works. That, or upgrading from T8 to T9 is optional in beating Arthas. Clearly.

 

mistersix

BoH is an axe. Which is nice since polearms can't be dw with tg anyway.

 

ExecutiePR

I've seen 3 different people post "prot leveling builds"; I'm a prot tank atm but I also have decent SwP and T6 DPS gear. Is leveling as prot really that viable? I mean currently if I go out to do dailies as prot I still put on two swords and go zerker to devestate since stuff just dies faster and when I am actually a fury build things melt in a second or two, while with prot it's painfully slow.

Why wouldn't you just DPS spec your way to 80 then switch back to prot? Or are the tanks planning to instance their way to 80 and that's what these builds are about?

 

AmPriS

What is the Rationale for Polearms not being usable with Titan's Grip?

 

Liar

It's simple really: Do whatever is most fun for you. With the Prot changes 1h/Shield grinding seems to be viable so if you like that, do it. If you prefer DW Devastate, then you can do that, too. If you want to give Arms or TG a whirl, then go ahead. Offspec tanking seems to be good fun as well in Wrath (I haven't tried it) so just being Prot for all leveling instances doesn't have to be the only reason. I for one want to see them while leveling up and it's probably going to be random luck in which spec I tank/DPS there.
So just to stress the fact: Do whatever you think is most fun. Save the theorycrafting for when we are at level 80 and just enjoy the cruise til there. ^_^


A possible setup to make Polearms trademark Hunter or Ret Paladin weapons maybe? I don't know, but that's my safest best at the moment. And if you think about it, if they just don't design any good Polearms to use as TG or Arms Warriors we wouldn't even care about the TG restriction.

Unexpected TankPoints error Clearly someone doesn't understand how EH works. That, or upgrading from T8 to T9 is optional in beating Arthas. Clearly.

 

AmPriS

That makes sense but as it currently stands Axes/Polearms are the best weapons for Arms specced warriors.

Wraithspear for example off 10 man maenexxia is the best weapon you can get for Arm until you can nab Cryptfiends bite. The best still being the axe (Betrayer of Humanity) off 25 man KT.

 

Foundry

DPS output as Protection is significantly higher in the Beta, even at 70. I've tested Protection questing in Northrend in my T6/Sunwell tank gear, and in a mix of Arena/DPS gear. It's viable. In fact we can charge into a group of melee damage mobs, take them all down and end with about reasonable health still. That's not using any health buffs like pots or last stand. High mitigation, decent dps, reduced rate of downtime. Northrend quest mobs don't hit that hard really.

When you get Enraged Regen at 75 it gets quite effective.

Essentially leveling comes down to efficient gain of xp per hour with minimal downtime. Not speed leveling, just effective leveling which is often questing.

As Protection you can quest and kill in the best non-raid gear you have, which is often your threat-centric tank gear mixed with some DPS. Add in bandages and the odd health regen item like a Spyglass or even the awful Ashtongue trinket considering we get a lot more Shield Slams (it procs a lot from my tests thanks to S&B) and you have an effective way to reduce a lot of downtime. The food you can get in Dalaran is 15k/30 secs, so you can top off fast as well.

Options are good, you can level as whichever spec you want essentially.

 

• Morsexy

What I don't get is why anyone wouldn't level as Prot. I'm the arms warrior in the raid and I have some pretty nice gear all around, and it seems pretty no-brainer that one spec > all things is best especially if Prot is anywhere close to arms\fury dps and obviously it is currently especially when factoring in down time.

Some of the best XP\hour I got in tBC was speed grinding Blood Furnace to I think 65 or so, which I only did as fury because I wasn't tanking anything as prot for long anyways. Now that it is different seems pretty obvious to go Protection. I mean I can't believe anyone actually still enjoys leveling. You might enjoy the new content\new things to see\new spells aspect but not the actual mechanics of go here, get X, bring back, kill B, bring head etc combo.

 

Solifer

/sign.

The points you mention are descent, but someone said "makes tanking easier" thinking of random (maybe off-spec) tanks. Those might be quite disappointed, if they taunt but the mob runs away again, before it reaches the tank at all. Think of all the tanks out there starting a fight with taunt. Guess most tanks here know what they are doing and love that ranged taunt, but it doesn t make the usage "easier".

 

Khab

Today i re-copy my Character to PTR with alot of gems and mats for enchant

Change the Chant on Gloves from 15Str to 15hit
Re-socket every gem possible to Hit or Crit
And here is the new stats and new result :


Armour Pen 19.18%
Crit raid buffed 42% (1% extra Crit)
Haste 8.4%
Have imp WF totem
15%Hit (after talent) (3% more hit from last test and last sheet)

Result:

1 Hit = 1.481 DPS
1 Crit = 1.349 DPS
1 Haste = 0.702 DPS
1 Str = 0.858 DPS (with Kings and 10% AP buff)
1 AP = 0.391 DPS ( with 10% AP buff )
1 Armour Pen rating on gear = 0.876 DPS

I'll re-do those sheet again when we all hit 80 and try to draw some Graphic line for those stats. But as we can see here, as i get 3% extra hit and 1% extra Crit

Hit get a little bit worse
Crit gain increased (since it got less diminishing return from 2 roll table)
Haste get worse, since Haste only benifit the White dmg, when we get more Hit on gears over AP and STR, the yellow dmg increased and that make Haste scaling get worse
The gain Str and AP increased by noticeable amount


I can't reach the hit cap because i was limited by my gear( Fury is my Offspec) and gems is not easy to get on PTR. But my guess stay the same.

For TG spec we socket everything for hit until we get near the hit cap
Then Str and Crit should be back to its throne
Haste will scale worse and worse as hit increaed
Armour Pen rating stay the same, it's still somewhere 4.1%(31 Armour Pen Rating) Armour Pen will give you 1% more dmg

Anyone else doing any test and come up with different idea/result ?

Don't walk in-front of me, i might not follow
Don't walk behind me, i might not lead
Just walk beside me, be my friend.

(ps: walking beside a Tank ? WW and Cleave inc)

 

Foundry

I said nothing about Prot being best, or fastest. I said effective and viable. If your goals include solid questing ability, low downtime, preferred playstyle and ability to use the best gear you have which may be your tank gear then it's fine.

You're talking about being the Arms warrior and having the best gear for that, you're talking about instance rep grinding for speed. None of which is the point, or even the point of my post.

Arms works for you and your goals, Prot works for me and mine. That's the point; choice is good.

Optimal is a whole other debate and realistically spec is irrelevant for that, the solution is simple for optimal:
Find a pocket healer to HoT you all the way from 70-80 and you can get as many mobs as possible.

Edit: Misread your post, you're kind of saying the same thing I am... oops. Read it as why would anyone level as Prot. Leaving original reply, might be useful to others.

 

Alyx

Using a polearm or a staff in one hand makes no sense from an RP point of view, while two handed axes/maces/swords are just heavier versions of the same one handed weapons, so if you are strong/large enough to wield them effectively in one hand, it makes sense to do so.

 

• Morsexy

Don't worry, I'm not really sure what happened with my post, had a few more sentences describing my experiences with xp\hour in tBC grinding vs questing (in other words 'tanking' as fury in lower instance vs fury questing) and my two cents that grinding as prot is far easier it seems.

I'll be interested to figure out what is the best set of buffs to run around with for leveling, compared to tBC I'm swimming with gold and definitely want to make the most of it, be it elixir of Vitality + other or Relentless Flask ( assuming you don't die when this obviously wins ) food and what not.

Been thinking of putting together a low defense high BV set if I can even manage it for a spec like this. Of course all subject to change if TG spec becomes far better than prot DPS so we'll see, but I am not holding out hope.