WotLK talent Preview/Discussion - Page 130

rejdakon · 10/14/08, 4:50 AM

Originally Posted by Duranthor

As to whether blade storm is worth it, Well it's 12 aoe yellow attacks for every Death Wish.

If they do not change DW's position in the fury tree, you will not be able to take it together with Bladestorm at lvl 80 (51-pointer and 21-pointer), let alone at lvl 70.

Edit: Typo.

Brunkor · 10/14/08, 5:46 AM

Originally Posted by Gellor

Inscription will definitely be in with the patch:

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> No INSCRIPTION until Nov Release Pls?

As for which glyphs I;d use for Tanking for the 2 majors I;d use Revenge (Free HS after every revenge) and Sunder Armor (Applies Sunder armor to a 2nd nearby mob - threat is split equally between two afaik).

For the minors I'dd be using Thunderclap (IncreasedAoE by 2 yards), Charge (Increases max range by 5 yards), and Bloodrage (Reduces health cost by 50%).

What about Glyph of Blocking?

Use: Increases your block value by 10% for 10 sec after using your Shield Slam ability.

Seems like a no brainer for me, pretty much a constant 10% added BV.

On that note, how many people who are currently using Powerful Earthstorms will be regemming to Eternal Earthstorms?
Between the general increase in BV from Str, new talents, and the above mentioned glyph, it will be quite a powerful meta come tomorrow.

Myko · 10/14/08, 5:53 AM

Originally Posted by Graul

I don't know if this is the right thread for this question or what, but will it even be worth it for a Warrior to take two from AttT (or 2% crit) in exchange for two points into Imp Demo when an untalented CoW is still better and lasts four times as long? Now that we will no longer be using CoR isn't Imp Demo pretty redundant? This is mostly from a lvl 70 Arms perspective. I don't think Fury really has to make such a choice simply because they have a lot more room to play with on the way to TG.

I must have missed something, why are we not using CoR anymore? Because of Armor Penetration Rating change?

• Valoran · 10/14/08, 5:59 AM

Originally Posted by Myko

I must have missed something, why are we not using CoR anymore? Because of Armor Penetration Rating change?

CoR no longer stacks with other minor armor debuffs. CoR/FF/Sting (hunter pet ability from a wasp) all reduce armor by the same amount. CoR however, still adds to the bosses AP, thus FF is superior and not the debuff of choice.

Chardonnay · 10/14/08, 6:02 AM

Originally Posted by Brunkor

What about Glyph of Blocking?

Seems like a no brainer for me, pretty much a constant 10% added BV.

Requires lvl400 inscription to craft. That is not possible until LK.
I'll stick with glyph of heroic strike and revenge until LK, adding the blocking glyph at 80.

Brunkor · 10/14/08, 6:12 AM

Originally Posted by Chardonnay

Requires lvl400 inscription to craft. That is not possible until LK.
I'll stick with glyph of heroic strike and revenge until LK, adding the blocking glyph at 80.

Ouch, only checked the level requirement and figured a lvl 40 glyph wouldn't require such a high profession skill.
Makes me a sad panda, the only glyph that I was really looking forward to.

Ah well, seems like it'll be Rev and HS indeed then.
And Charge and...something or other for the minors.

Gellor · 10/14/08, 6:28 AM

How good will the Battlemaster's Celerity (60 Static haste) be for TG now, in comparison to other trinkets?

ZeTodu · 10/14/08, 6:38 AM

Shha - can you post Arms and Furry builds that you have tested - and please in diferent talent calc. then mmo-champion - i cant open it!

levk · 10/14/08, 9:53 AM

What are you guys thinking about leveling TG builds, particularly I'm interested on what you think about enrage and which points would you sacrifice for it.

ZeTodu · 10/14/08, 10:12 AM

If i have 158 pasive haste, with TGr build and wf totem my MH and OH swing will be around 2.2 and 2.1 - with heroism - 1.67 and 1.63 (MH-3.6 speed, OH-3.5 speed)
Am i right?

Stink · 10/14/08, 10:13 AM

Enrage is 3/6/9/12/15% in today's patch notes, rather than the 2/4/6/8/10% from build 9038. The patch notes make no mention of Bllodthirst cooldown being lowered, though

Gellor · 10/14/08, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by ZeTodu

If i have 158 pasive haste, with TGr build and wf totem my MH and OH swing will be around 2.2 and 2.1 - with heroism - 1.67 and 1.63 (MH-3.6 speed, OH-3.5 speed)
Am i right?

2.18 and 2.12, heroism numbers look right. Don't forget 3% static haste from a ret pally which stacks. So you MH/OH will be ~ 2.12/2.06

Gellor · 10/14/08, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Stink

Enrage is 3/6/9/12/15% in today's patch notes, rather than the 2/4/6/8/10% from build 9038. The patch notes make no mention of Bllodthirst cooldown being lowered, though

I really wouldn't trust the patch notes, they're pretty outdated.

Joshua0889 · 10/14/08, 11:03 AM

First off, i'd like to say that i've played a mage for most of the duration of my game time. Which is about three and a half years. I've got a lvl 64 warrior in the works, and i've tanked a few times with him. I have a few questions. First off, how important is crit chance for a prot warrior? How important is Attack Power? Also Another question i have is; are protection warriors now responsible for dps as well as damage taken? I'm asking these questions because of the new talents. Incite and then Improved Revenge. I have a talent selection that i've prepared for my warrior as i level him up to 70 and then to 80 in the expansion to come. Hopefully you'll look at it and tell me if i'm crazy or not.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...00000000000000

Thanks for reading my post on the talent discussion and, keep in mind; i'm a squishy at heart.

Liar · 10/14/08, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Joshua0889

First off, i'd like to say that i've played a mage for most of the duration of my game time. Which is about three and a half years. I've got a lvl 64 warrior in the works, and i've tanked a few times with him. I have a few questions. First off, how important is crit chance for a prot warrior? How important is Attack Power? Also Another question i have is; are protection warriors now responsible for dps as well as damage taken? I'm asking these questions because of the new talents. Incite and then Improved Revenge. I have a talent selection that i've prepared for my warrior as i level him up to 70 and then to 80 in the expansion to come. Hopefully you'll look at it and tell me if i'm crazy or not.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...00000000000000

Thanks for reading my post on the talent discussion and, keep in mind; i'm a squishy at heart.

This is, to put it mildly, an odd spec. I realize you probably want to spec that way for threat and DPS, however the points in AM, TM (3/3 even; 1/3 I can understand, but 3/3?) and Imp HS are better spent on Fury or Prot if you want to increase threat/DPS. You also took Safeguard for some reason when the points are better spent in Incite and/or Cruelty/AttT. Puncture and Imp BR are talents I would not spec. Rage efficiency on Devastate is not a big deal anymore and Imp BR is just useless.

Crit and AP are indeed useful for threat and someone in this threat did the math on these stats (can't find the post tho). IIRC, the order of importance was Expertise, Hit, Str then stuff like Crit and BV.

Grymm · 10/14/08, 11:35 AM

To reinforce what Liar said (ironic?), it used to be that warriors tanked with the innate threat of their moves while doing junk damage. Actually, originally, you tanked almost exclusively which sunder/hs. So, you had a tank that did maybe 20% the dps of a DPSer. Then, ferals/paladins became good tanks (warriors became much better as well but only a little in the dps department) and you could run a 5 man where the DPS of the tank helps the run a lot. Blizzard saw that in small settings, having a tank that was incapable of doing a legit amount of damage was both a disadvantage and not fun. So, in WotLK, warriors will be tanking with a lot more dps output and a lot less dependence on built in threat on moves. So, crit/ap become important as it will help your TPS a lot. Then again, I've also heard that tank TPS is very high and aggro control is not much of an issue.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
will be the spec I'm using to run heroics with. I'm not usually prot, but I have roughly T6 level tanking gear. I've tanked Kalecgos before in a pinch. That spec gets me a fair amount of tanking dps and gives up a little bit of mitigation (which is fine for me as I outgear heroics easily).

AM while tanking is almost a negligible amount of rage.
TM while tanking (especially with warbringer) is basically useless.
Imp Bloodrage is a mediocre talent. I rarely bloodrage other than before a pull or if I'm tanking a boss who just doesn't hit hard enough.
Incite I like a lot. With base crit, incite, and cruelty, you should crit your Heroic Strikes at least 25% of the time. Crit TCs will help with aoe tanking.
AttT adds a lot of AP when you look at how low prot ap is at level 70. It might be less influential at 80, but still a good talent.
I put 2 pts in puncture mostly because I need to get further in the tree and I didn't value shield spec much.
Safeguard I consider a PVP ability.

Ambika · 10/14/08, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Liar

You specced Safeguard over 2% Dodge? Let alone the fact that Vigiliance's threat transfer alone is going to be more threat than 5% crit to begin with. Personally, I am going for http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...00000000000000 .
I really doubt threat enhancing talents such as Cruelty will be needed but god knows how the 3.0 threat of other classes is going to be since the talents weren't designed around level 70. Heck, I might even spec out of AttT if threat is good enough and max out Imp Disciplines with 2 points to spare.

yes...sorry...safeguard is bad...my mistake. Here's my shield and sword. I'll take My Sign now.

Our agility has been reduced to almost nothing. All Tier6 gear had it removed. Our crit is going to be low, very low, painfully low. That's why I left the 5 points in Cruelty as my crits will be almost nonexistent with all the +AGI gone from our gear.

I'll try your build tonite. It's a cleaner build and I'm glad you spotted my errors. I'm very concerned I won't be putting out anything near the amount of threat I need to now that Salvation has vanished.

Alexplayswow · 10/14/08, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Grymm

To reinforce what Liar said (ironic?), it used to be that warriors tanked with the innate threat of their moves while doing junk damage. Actually, originally, you tanked almost exclusively which sunder/hs. So, you had a tank that did maybe 20% the dps of a DPSer. Then, ferals/paladins became good tanks (warriors became much better as well but only a little in the dps department) and you could run a 5 man where the DPS of the tank helps the run a lot. Blizzard saw that in small settings, having a tank that was incapable of doing a legit amount of damage was both a disadvantage and not fun. So, in WotLK, warriors will be tanking with a lot more dps output and a lot less dependence on built in threat on moves. So, crit/ap become important as it will help your TPS a lot. Then again, I've also heard that tank TPS is very high and aggro control is not much of an issue.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
will be the spec I'm using to run heroics with. I'm not usually prot, but I have roughly T6 level tanking gear. I've tanked Kalecgos before in a pinch. That spec gets me a fair amount of tanking dps and gives up a little bit of mitigation (which is fine for me as I outgear heroics easily).

AM while tanking is almost a negligible amount of rage.
TM while tanking (especially with warbringer) is basically useless.
Imp Bloodrage is a mediocre talent. I rarely bloodrage other than before a pull or if I'm tanking a boss who just doesn't hit hard enough.
Incite I like a lot. With base crit, incite, and cruelty, you should crit your Heroic Strikes at least 25% of the time. Crit TCs will help with aoe tanking.
AttT adds a lot of AP when you look at how low prot ap is at level 70. It might be less influential at 80, but still a good talent.
I put 2 pts in puncture mostly because I need to get further in the tree and I didn't value shield spec much.
Safeguard I consider a PVP ability.

Take 3 points out of incite and put them in deflection and you're set.

Incite is VERY debatable as you won't need the extra crit to tank well. You get insane amounts of rage and it's almost impossible to lose aggro. Don't worry about crit and extra damage, worry about HP and avoidance and you'll be the best tank ever.

mistersix · 10/14/08, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Ambika

yes...sorry...safeguard is bad...my mistake. Here's my shield and sword. I'll take My Sign now.

Our agility has been reduced to almost nothing. All Tier6 gear had it removed. Our crit is going to be low, very low, painfully low. That's why I left the 5 points in Cruelty as my crits will be almost nonexistent with all the +AGI gone from our gear.

I'll try your build tonite. It's a cleaner build and I'm glad you spotted my errors. I'm very concerned I won't be putting out anything near the amount of threat I need to now that Salvation has vanished.

I've played on beta without cruelty thus far and it hasn't really been a problem.

Alexplayswow · 10/14/08, 12:13 PM

For 3.0 tanking I'd go http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...00000000000000

For WOTLK tanking I'd go: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...00000000000000

Grymm · 10/14/08, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Alexplayswow

Take 3 points out of incite and put them in deflection and you're set.

Incite is VERY debatable as you won't need the extra crit to tank well. You get insane amounts of rage and it's almost impossible to lose aggro. Don't worry about crit and extra damage, worry about HP and avoidance and you'll be the best tank ever.

The spec I listed is only for heroics/old raid content between now and Nov 13th which I outgear. The extra avoidance is of no use. At times, I may be tanking in pieces of pvp/dps gear just to make the runs go faster. It is not a raid progression spec and I am not usually a prot warrior.

Gristle · 10/14/08, 12:23 PM

Spam-refreshing this topic, in the hopes that one of our American cousins will post here confirming which version of Titan's Grip made it into this patch release. a.k.a. "how many Lionseye can you sell me?"

Stink · 10/14/08, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Gristle

Spam-refreshing this topic, in the hopes that one of our American cousins will post here confirming which version of Titan's Grip made it into this patch release. a.k.a. "how many Lionseye can you sell me?"

If the servers come up on time, we'll be able to tell you for sure in 5 and a half hours.

I personally regemmed my gear with 10 Lionseyes, but I am missing some obvious pieces of hit gear (badge xbow, Supremus neck). With Surefooted and the 15 hit glove enchant, I'll be right at 284. Hopefully we actually get the 12% version.

gringo · 10/14/08, 12:30 PM

Since I have not found this topic in here, I'm just gonna propose the Warrior-Ignite spec ^^

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

The idea is to keep Deep Wounds (which seems to be working correctly finally!) up all the time with heavy hitting 1h axes. Rampage + Poleaxe spec give 10% crit alone and Trauma makes the Dot hit harder.

I just wondered how high you would get Deep Wounds to tick with enough crits in quick succession and how much of yout total dmg this would be. (Does WW count as 2 crits?)

Just a thought, feel free to rip me apart

Joshua0889 · 10/14/08, 12:33 PM

okay, alex i looked at your specs, and i like them. they make sense to my mage mind if you will..the only thing is that , i thought tactical mastery and even anger management were good to have for tanking. can you explain why they aren't needed?