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I was spec'd TG, unlearned my talent points and the 2 two-handers remained on my back.

 

Mister Joshua

Yeah, I saw a warrior dual wielding two-handers using Blade Storm on practice dummies last night.

So, I have decent fury gear and a not-so-good 2-hander (ZA sword), and I don't feel like re-gemming my stuff with hit to try to make the cap, since I'll be leveling prot in a few weeks anyway. I saw a few posts back some people were duel-wielding 1-handers with the deep arms spec, but I hate missing precision and Dual Wield. I am an orc and have Rising Tide and the S2 axe, so axe spec looks great to me. I haven't tried this spec yet, but I'd like to get some feedback from anyone who has tried something similar: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Basically the only thing I can imagine missing is the new Rampage, and the threat reduction from Improved Berserker Stance.

 

Twid

If you hearth or zone, the offhand will be unequipped if it is the same as Beta.

 

nfw

Not gone, but only happens with 4 level worth of weapon skill over your defense skill.

 

Mongerthod

I asked the same question with no response. Anyone have any ideas on this? My question referred to fury TG spec, which is obviously different then 2h arms but the question remains the same. With the ArP change, which items are best in slot?

 

dr_AllCOM3

How about using a spreadsheet or simulator instead of just asking again?

 

DarthGreg

How are people gemming for TG now (assuming below cap)? 10hit yellow, 5agi/5hit red, 5str/7sta blue?

 

Russta

I couldn't agree with this more.

Out planned SWP raid wasn't able to happen due to the instability of EU servers and addons so a few of us that were alright went ahead and did Karazhan because we were so desperate to raid. I remember on maiden, I basically tanked the whole fight then died and it was pointed out to me that my DPS was 2.3k. The thing is though, I just felt like I was randomly mashing buttons instead of doing some strict rotation. That's what felt so good about it.

Bladestorm is just amazing, even on one target, but my God is it a lot of threat.

 

Nerub

After a little testing today I decided to give leveling with Protection a try. The spec would look something like this: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft.
Running instaces should become a cakewalk. Downtime should be pretty low, I'll put some +10STR gems in my t6 gear, replacing some of the +15STAM ones. Anyone with a beta account here who knows if Northrend group quests are soloable as a tanking warrior?

Of course this depends on the def. item supply as you progress towards 80 too.

 

Cranbery

Agreed. I also ran a karazhan last night, and bladestorm was amazing for the moroes room and such. It was extremely enjoyable. I ran a test as 53/8/0 using [Soul Cleaver] on the test dummies and was averaging around 1900-1950 dps with an enhancement shaman following the "rotation" of keeping MS on cooldown, keeping up rend, and MS > execute > OP priority with slam as a cushion in between CD's. I ran the same test with a [Rising Tide] MH and the heroic 2.5 OH and was actually doing about 100-150 dps more with the exact same spec. I stayed in zerker stance, kept MS and WW on CD and popped execute as it came up. Execute was proccing like there was no tomorrow, the crits were out the roof with the axe in my mainhand and mongoose proc, I'm considering trying it with mongoose/mongoose to see how it goes. Both times Deep wounds was doing 20-25% of my damage. I'm going to try both ways tomorrow in BT, I think this dual wield arms scenario has some future.

 

mistersix

Interesting. Good point too. I'll check parrot and see if it's working under similar mistakes.

 

Gellor

Just an FYI but [Solarian's Sapphire] got buffed to 110apm however the AP buff only applis to the wearer now. woohoo, that trinket can finally die!!!!!!

 

Foundry

I think that has been posted before but it's also bugged (reported it on Beta) too, on Beta and now live. You can buff yourself, then remove the trinket and you keep the Solarian's Grace buff.

Furthermore it does not interact with Glyph of Battle, you get a 3 min shout and 2 min solarian buff. I never tested Booming Voice. Anyway smacks clearly of Blizzard doing a quick and dirty change to just the Shout buff spell to avoid any scaling or longevity issues. Which is a good thing, albeit buggy and poorly implemented change it seems.

 

Kehly

My apologies, my bad for posting in the incorrect thread.

 

Mongerthod

Maybe because the updated spreadsheet was released just TODAY?

 

Writhe

What you brought up is news to me - didn't even think about UA; however, still doesnt change the priority (go through the list every time you want to use an ability, if you can use it do so. so yea revenge still comes first in a UA build. But what you bring up should be noted for sure.

Rage dependencies always change things if you have literally more rage than you can burn through hs's and normal rotation use SS over revenge.

Why the debuffs are in your rotation first or second [at all] if someone else has been designated the slots I don't know.

Yup exactly rage matters.


Every GCD you should go over this priority list if you can use it, do so, if you can't pick the next one.

Prot Spec with SnB:
1: Thunderclap if timer <= 12seconds
2: Demo. shout if timer <= 3 gcd
3: Shield Slam
4: Revenge
5: Devastate

Non SnB:
1: Thunderclap if timer <= 12seconds
2: Demo. shout if timer <= 3 GCD
3: Revenge
4: Shield Slam
5: MS/BT (Spec dependant) -> replace with Sunder/Devastate if < 5 stacks or rage starved.

Still unsure on section 5 here. Would all depend on your threat of dev/sunder and the threat(aka damage) of MS and BT. Sundering to 5 and refreshes should occur but which gives better tpr? ms, bt or sunder?

Notes:
-Each Global Cooldown should start from line 1
-Each line is use where CD is free
-Block, Bash, Spell reflect and others should be considered reactional and used when necessary
-Heroic Strikes and other spells not covered by the gcd including those above, should be used where rage allows or the need is there.
-Could be a good move to throw in SW around revenge if the mob is stunable and you have the rage free to the point it won't stunt your rotation during or after the stun.
-Bloodrage could be used on CD with higher priority than SS/Revenge if rage staring is occurring.
-Start of encounters should use a snap aggro combo for initial threat like always (HS queued and requed, SS -> Dev)
-Rage matters, use modified version if you are rage starved or a higher threat per gcd list if in unlimited rage situations.
-If someone else is providing TC/Demo equivalents ignore using TC/Demo




Question:
Can anyone give a kind of proof as to why SS should come before Revenge in a SnB build?

I understand why, just can't figure out the math behind it.

Having SS on CD constantly keeps you from wasting any SnB procs.
Using SS before revenge will allow for making the most SS's possible.

Who pulled the surger with the core hound?

 

Khab

I went with my guild for SWP and BT clear in 1night today.

As far as everything goes i saw :

I was tanking with about 1200prot DPS and TPS 3000~4000. I predicted the same result awhile ago with my maths, and with that i think if i maximized everything i can get somewhere near 1500 but buggy UI and wrong timming BL or drum preventing that.
The Arm Warrior (might be he doing something wrong) staying at 2800(not 3000 as i predicted) DPS on Brut while Ret pally doing 3000
We swap TG Warrior in awhile after that and that TG Warrior doing somewhere 2800, not around 3200 as i predicted


The WWS is not working so i can't really digging the WWS to see what went wrong and what goes right, what need to fix. But definitely Ret Pally DPS is somewhat too high now, and Warrior DPS is not good(might be sux UI preventing our Warrior from doing the right number).

And on side note, moonkin is cable doing over 3k along with Hunter and Rogues now. But i didn't see TG/Arm warrior doing over 3k yet. And i have to wait another week since we have nothing left to raid this week, those T4/T5 bosses just die too fast and the number will be not accurate since ppl will have like 50% duration of the fight with BL and Drums buff.


But let's get ready for worst case senarior that we need to ask for some mechanic/talent change to make our DPS pair with Rogues /sigh.

Don't walk in-front of me, i might not follow
Don't walk behind me, i might not lead
Just walk beside me, be my friend.

(ps: walking beside a Tank ? WW and Cleave inc)

 

ZeTodu

blue - 5crit/7 sta or 5hit/6sta (heroic drop)

 

Keila

I had a different experience clearing Sunwell tonight with my guild, Khab. Since WWS isn't quite working, I have little to offer except screenshots of the meters just to give a comparison of what the top dps is like on the encounters, which is mostly melee heavy.

I was specced 0/53/8 despite all the hype over the Arms deep wounds spec since I honestly wanted to see how TG did in an actual raid setting. For the majority of the fights, I was directly competing with our rogues and other dps.

Brutallus
Twins
Kil'Jaeden

Azumie is our only rogue with a complete warglaive set, so it's little surprise that he was far ahead at about 4k dps on Brutallus. Overall, TG seemed to be pretty competitive in a raid setting. Caster dps seemed to be hit the worst, especially warlocks, while melee skyrocketed. I was honestly surprised at how well TG did since the general concensus was that it wasn't worth it because it was going to be drastically lower than arms. Obviously, I do think my gear had a lot to do with it since I was able to regem and switch to a completely TG beneficial gear set, which the majority of beta testers didn't have access to. It'll definitely be even better once the 12% TG and 5 second Bloodthirst make it into the next patch so that I am able to switch out some hit for other stats. I'd be interested to hear some feedback on how the Arms specced warriors did this week in Sunwell.

Edit: someone said they might have a complete parse of Brutallus, so if we can get it working, I'll gladly update my post with it.

 

Shha

TG is seriously overpowered at this stage. I hit 3082 dps on brutallus without optimized gear yet, and i could go for 3200-3300 with few tweaks.

It might seem "on par" with hunters/rogues/moonkins. But look at talent trees , and you will see they wont get NEARLY as much dps going to 80 as TG. If they stayed lvl 70 (to have the same "relative gear power") , but were given 10 extra talent points, their dps would go up by maybe 10%. I would lose incite (~5% dmg), but gain Deep wounds (30% increase), 2h spec (6-7% increase) and impale (5% increase), aka easily i would be over 4-4.5k .

Ill repeat what I said in the thread here . TG scales the best of all classes/specs Ive seen. Its crap now cause it lacks talents addidng to crit scalability, and loses 25-35% damage cause of it. At 80 it doesnt perform so far because it has huge starting disadvantage (or counterbalance if you prefer :P), and the early WotlLK gear doesnt offset it yet. Wait few raids into WotLK and unless TG gets nerfed, it will be unquestionable king of dps - to the point where I call it overpowered.

 

SSLanfear

We did sunwell and i hit around 3689dps with 16/45 build nonTG, coming in 2nd to full rogue. Deepwound was about 24% of my dps ticking upwards of 4k, i'm using KJ fist and OH glaive. Bloodthirst was a pitiful 10% of dmg, and heroic strike was at 26% with the new rank11. Fully raid buffed up close to 53% crit not counting mongoose but counting rampage.

The full glaives rogue did about 3950ish dps, i don't remember exactly, from my recap.
Because of some mixup we didn't have FF up and i miss timed deathwish and we killed him so fast couldn't get a 2nd deathwish in. I did have a demonslaying up, but did not use any haste potions.
Testing on the test dummies this spec FAR outdmged TG 0/53/8 at lvl 70.

For some odd reason though for KJ i only ended up with about 2900ish dps though i was much further ahead then the rogue on that fight. Weird that dps's reached that much higher on Brutallus then on KJ. Then again maybe because of the first add phase. I usually start recording after KJ comes up. Except tonight i didn't.

 

Shha

Yea like I said TG lacks 30% of its damage at 70, but Im saying in WotlK just wait and watch it skyrocket !

Honestly Im not even sure how to 'fix' it. TG hit penalty is not the way to go as it hits lesser geared warriors 1st - at my gear lvl i switch few gems here and there and got 15 hit enchant to gloves to get capped. From my normal setup to TG hit cap its what? 120ish hit rating. 2xBOH provitdes me with over 160 "rating points" of itemization over 2x1h. Meaning I actually gain crit/haste etc compared to 2x1h - and gain weapon damage.

Either way like i said - TG just scales amazingly once feeded with lvl 80 talents. One idea coming to mind to "fix it" is to move deep wounds deeper into arms tree - out of reach of fury builds, and in return give some SERIOUS buffage to fury - be it 1 or 2h. Make enrage a proc chance when ANYONE in your raid gets hit, buff unending fury to reset cd on WW after critical skill hits - something really good like that - to shut down deep wounds, but limit scaling (deep wounds make haste/crit scale way way better then it should - for arms its balanced with crit cap, and haste limitation due to slam - for TG haste/crit are out of the scale once you reach some gear level).

 

Khab

If you read like 10 page back. My post about sheet and calcualtion on TG with my offspec gear should give me 3200~3500 DPS on stand and nuke fight (like Brut or KJ). And with that same offspec gear(different gemming ofcouse) i calcuated my Arm DPS should be around 3000 DPS. ( my offspec gears mostly 8/8T6 with some BT non-set and a couple of random gear)

WotLK talent Preview/Discussion

I was amazed at the Arm/TG Warrior poor performent in our raid, but then again we raiding without mod and there was lag spike, random crash and random DC from some ppl(including me)
Now with your 3400 DPS on Brut, it proven that my calculation on TG DPS was true. Out TG Warrior have pretty much same setup as you with googles, twin shoulder, Alolygon and SS4 Sword .............

But what about Arm DPS. Any Arm Warrior with 8/8T6 and have 3k or over 3k DPS out there ?

Don't walk in-front of me, i might not follow
Don't walk behind me, i might not lead
Just walk beside me, be my friend.

(ps: walking beside a Tank ? WW and Cleave inc)

 

Charsi

I have 3/3 TM for the added threat and 2/2 UA, I found that prioritizing SS (and possibly MS, still unsold on it) in when they are up produces more threat (assuming you trust Omen) than simply spamming Revenge and HS, which I think is what you're saying. I use Glyph of Revenge, so pretty much every HS is free. Combined with Unrelenting Assault it's lethal - you are constantly spamming Revenge for free HS's. Blizzard's floating combat text lights up like a christmas tree with all the gaining and fading messages.

Threat depends a lot on whether you have somebody there to put up sunder/expose. I found that I don't really have the time or inclination to sunder it up, it actually seems like I do more threat in the short term simply using SS/MS on cooldown and hitting Revenge + HS every other gcd. Glyph of Revenge is amazing for Arms tanking. Keep in mind thought my post-patch experience at this point is limited to Heroics, where things usually die so fast that applying 5 sunders is a waste of time and results in aggro pulls.

 

SSLanfear

No what I was pointing out was right now Deepwounds is our highest dmg and best scaling it's deepwounds thats keeping either of the dps specs from being bad. TG on it's own is not very impressive when it is outdone by a low lvl talent, even if you had capped hit gear. The crit and AP you lose from trying to get TG to cap would lower your deepwounds.

Now i'm not trying to say this is right but getting 4k ticks without mangle or trauma at 70, and had over 12k crits in naxx25 on thaddius/loetheb fights. Without Deepwounds both our dps trees would be so pathetic right now, it's deepwounds that scales the best. I'm not a very big fan of TG, the numbers people were getting when TG didn't have the counterbalance and when deepwounds wasn't fixed yet were abismal.

To me right now it's Deepwounds lacking the bonus of TG not the other way around...

Either way i haven't tried sudden death builds at 70, but i would think that it'd be even better then fury right now, either 2hd or dw.