What about the DPS with the other specs? Was 2x1H your best DPS?

Anyone have opinions about DW swords in arms specc after the SD proc change from 30% crit to 9% on hit?

Will the extra attacks be useful for proccing SD, or will the 6 sec CD of swordspecc cause problems?

Im wondering whether the sum of 3 expertise, swordspecc and the new SD will make swords > Axes for humans, at least?

My good 1handers are Dragonstrike, Talon of Azshara, The Decapitator, and whatever sword/axe I can buy for my puny amount of honor points. Wonder what the best combo of these: Talon+ S2 quickblade will be better than Decapitator + S2 hacker (or maybe even double S2 axes).

I knew I should have grabbed those Rising Tides back when I had the chance.

With my gear TGr do about 300dps less then arms 2H and arms 2H about 500dps less then 2x1H arms!
I didnt tested 15/46! ! So from my point of view - arms 2x1H is THE BUILD!

I'd stay with axes and drop some crit items (legs and gloves) for hit/ haste one... More hits more procs! Or i am wrong?

My armory is bugged, but my stats currently are 145 hit, 43.7% crit, 2084 AP and a bit of ArP with A blade of Harbingers.

I think you will have a 100% uptime on Wrecking Crew and Trauma with crit down at 30%, but I am loathe to start regemming +hit since I wont be going TG before I can get deep fury with some Arms goodies. I can do about 1800 dps on the expert training dummy with 2hd arms, battleshout only, so if DW arms can do 2k+ Im all for it, I just need some help figuring out if Axe > Sword for PvE with the SD change and Swordspecc CD.

2300+ dps on training dummy only with BS....and 2xMongoose

I have crappy gear but I found that SD build and Prot were the best for questing and so forth in the expansion. The survivability of prot is amazing and the dps isn't bad. SD seemed to be streaky at best which led to me taking quite a bit of dmg on occasion. It was great for aoeing packs down though for a quick 8k xp every 45 seconds. TG seemed to blow in the sustained killing department since they nerfed the hell out of bloodthirst healing.

I'm really surprised to see Shha proclaiming TG to be "overpowered", when I've had a fairly lukewarm experience with it. When 3.0 went live I immediately re-gemmed for hit, got Hard Khorium Battlefists made with the spell hit enchant, and rolled into Sunwell with 318 hit, counting hit food. Got the Heroic Strike/Execute glyphs, made no other gear swaps, and found myself doing barely more DPS on Brutallus with a regular flask than I did pre-3.0 with a Demonslaying Elixir. Throughout the entire night, and up through my guild's first KJ kill, I was butting heads with our Arms Warrior for the top of the chart. It felt like a lot of the lower-performing DPS classes were putting out a lot more, but that while I was still at or near the top of the heap, I didn't gain much. On KJ, I was doing up to 2.8k DPS on my best attempts, whereas the Arms Warrior was chinning over 3k.

Since then I've been fooling around with Arms and not only having a lot more fun, but feeling like I'm doing more damage in BT and Hyjal pugs. I'm going to test 1h Fury next time my guild goes into Sunwell, I expect to see myself doing at least as well as I did with TG this past week.

It's not like it was a weapons problem, I was using S3 MH Axe/Mounting Vengeance as 1h, 2xTBoH as TG.

[edit] I played Arms Axes, trying both dual-wield with S3x2 and 2h with TBoH. My experience was that inability to Slam consistently, multi-target fighting, or fights too short to take advantage of T4B all work a lot better as dual-wield Berserker, but that generally on boss-type fights 2h Battle has higher output. I thought it was pretty cool that both play-styles worked pretty well with the same spec.

He was speaking about deep wounds. Right now you can't have deep wounds with TG, but at 80 you can and your DPS will go up that much. Arms already has wounds so they can't get wounds again. Is imp execute a comparable powerup for arms to wounds for TG?

Actually with current state of arms , i guess arms build at 80 will go for incite rather then imp execute. even with SD not proccing of crits but hits, DW arms seem still as 'the way to go' for arms sadly.

Right now it seems that unless you have warglaives a slow/fast setup for arms outdmgs 1h fury. With Axes its a definitely advantage now, with other weapons its pretty slim. Not sure after the change to 9% on hits. Axes will lose a bit more then swords, but still axe spec will pull ahead for sure. Now since you dont use a lot of heroics with DW arms, your crit is more or less capped at ~60% for whites (due to misses/glancings), and thats easily reachable. So execute procs will go from ~18% to 9% lowering execute damage contribution but close to that factor. I *think* it might be still best warrior dps spec though.

At 80 however TG will definitly pull ahead at good gear level. Not in Naxx but a bit later on. The damage increase from DW 2h spec and impale is huge. DW is ~20% of your damage using "normal" slow/slow setup , 2h spec is 6%, impale is ~3%. Imagine your TG build AND 30% on top of it.

I think a pressing issue for Blizzard to fix is to disable Deep wounds proccing from OH crits, or better - make them use OH weapon range. Right now all the "cool" ways to play warriors - 2h Slam or TG are losing out because of Slow/Fast Dual wield. People blame it on deep wounds being generally "overpowered", but in reality its just this small factor - oh crits proccing MH deep wounds. I find it simply wrong that dual wielding axes works THAT much better (sd is also a factor here), but TG is just ridiculous. You MH a huge 2h, but you equip smallest and fastest dagger possible in your OH - just to proc DW. Yes 2x2h is WORSE then 2h+dagger at 80.

They could also limit the maximum stacks to some number. This could be easily tuned.

There are no stacks. Every crit procs a Deep Wound. It's just the dot display that's wierd, so you don't get a massive dot spam.

What I mean is probably best explained with the treats that make you run faster off the horseman, so if you're playing currently that's what I mean.

Basically now it stacks to infinity. Before it stacked to one. Something in between would be - say they set the limit at 3 for argument's sake. You start attacking. You crit deep wounds shows up - time 0.0. One second later you crit 2 more times the stack count goes to 3, no damage is lost - time 1.0. One second later you crit again stack count stays at 3, the very first crit's dot is wiped, the latest crit's one added. First in first out queue. Very easily tuned with maximum number of stacks. I hope that's comprehensive enough.

Wont that get worse with more crit, as before you lose damage.

The "stacking limit" is a very bad idea and with frequency with which warriors crit it will ALWAYS cap out. Again, its also not needed - deep wound stacking is solved fine. Its the fact that your 312-625 dmg 1.0 speed OH crit will proc a deep wound from your 2000-4000 dmg 4.0 speed MH (a bit inflated stats but you get the idea) - aka 1500 dmg of deep wounds from a crit for ~900 dmg, thats broken. If they fix it so the OH procs OH deep wounds - it will mean in this case ~220 dmg of deep wounds from 900 crit - aka "ok" number.

I think he is talking about deep wounds TG because the dagger crits will proc main hand damage deep wounds. The main damage you lose from the dagger is the lower stats, lower AP normalization and base damage on whirlwinds but that isn't significant enough compared to the extra deep wounds.

Yeah, I went 53/8/0 yesterday, with Rising Tide and Brutalizer equipped. UB Crit was at 43.something, and it got as high as 57% when mongooses were proccing. The DPS is quite insane as has been mentioned here - Sudden Death is definitely proccing "too often". Got a Deep Wounds tick of nearly 5000 in there too - how that happens I don't know.

I was 2h sword MS the other night and I'd say the 2x1h axe build is ~ 20% better with the exact same equipment with ~2500 ap, 150-ish hit rating and about -20% armor.

Here's the breakdown if anyone's interested:

Wow Web Stats

some questions about the 2x1h axe arms build

1) I was wondering if some1 could link me a spec for 2x1h axe arms build. I've searched alot and I got quite an idea, but still would be nice to see some1 elses.

2) Also how do you think the priorities on the abilities are.

3) constant Battle stance for Overpower/rend usage, constant zerker stance for 3%crit+WW and skipping rend/overpower or sitting in zeker and switching to battle for overpower/rend? Because to get to the right talents u gotta pick impr. OP/Rend & ToB so I'm not sure but I guess stancedancing would be the best here. If you have low rage at some point that is.

Sorry for the many questions, but I see alot of ppl talk about this spec and I just can't figure out what would be the best way to play this spec:>

Thanks in Advance

Zerker stance!
Priorities are - Execute>WW>MS>HS

Talent build:
Warrior Talent Calculator
You can also use Bladestorm when you dont have enough rage (sometimes hapens) or on every CD....

This would really depend on the stack limit though. If the stack limit is 100 you'll never reach it. And it would work to fix this exact issue with the offhand dagger - a certain crit % would correspond to certain minimum offhand speed (with haste flurry etc) going below which won't increase deep wounds damage due to being at the stack limit. Increasing your crit will drive the offhand speed up. If you're worried about people with bad gear still taking advantage of this, anything to help the guy in greens is good in my book.

I don't like the OH damage for OH crits because it's not flexible and keeps scaling fast, they will eventually have do something else to nerf it.

Levk, your suggestion would only deepen the problem of making combat mechanics even more obscure and unreachable to the average wow player.

With a stack limit, you're basically introducing an effective soft haste cap. This is of pretty massive importance if up until you reach that stack limit deep wounds remains as is (i.e. no other change, a long of the lines of what Shha suggests, is imposed) since it is such a huge component of your overall damage.

The soft haste cap wouldn't even be a "nice" fixed number that is easy to post on the official forums (like 9% hit for dual wield specials) and hope that average players heed even if they don't understand the reasoning behind it. On the contrary, it would depend on your weapon speeds and crit rating, making it all the more necessary to use spreadsheets (which I'm not personally against, but if there is a solution that doesn't make mechanics much more obscure why go for the more complex route?).

I like Shha's suggestion from the standpoint of not making mechanics even more convoluted and unintuitive than they already are (in fact, having oh crits proc deep wounds using the oh weapon dmg is more intuitive!) and from the 'ooo, coolness' standpoint of TG and the fact that it was developed with the concept in mind of putting a 2h weapon in each hand.