I searched through this thread, and could not confirm nor deny if you are able to use Titan's grip to toss a two-hander in one hand, and a shield in the other. I am not sure if this would be good or not with the ridiculously slow swing time for rage generation, but I was just curious. Tanking with a two-hander just sounds like a lot of fun.
2h/Shield works but that's completely useless for threat.
How does Poleaxe Spec work with Bloodthirst? I ask because Poleaxe Spec only affects attacks made with an axe or polearm. Bloodthirst doesn't say that it requires a melee weapon, so I would guess that Bloodthirst doesn't use the weapon to make an attack. So does Bloodthirst not gain the benefits of Poleaxe spec?
If so, that means Bloodthirst would be losing 5% crit as well as the extra crit damage, maybe. It think it might be a good idea for someone to test exactly what happens. It will be needed for accurate DPS calculations.
Also, any word on if Deep Wounds and/or Rend have their tick times reset if they are reapplied before they expire? I'd like to think at least Deep Wounds would be changed to behave in an optimal manner. It would be nice if Rend did as well, but I can understand it not working that way.
Well 1st of all BF/Trauma is not missing all the aggro reduction compared to 28/43 build. It misses 6% from imp zerker.
As for execute threat - that would be easy to fix, and hopefully will be. The talent change made specifically to help tanking Vaelastrasz, shouldnt really affect 2nd expansion play.
I think the comparison was to having both Imp Berserker and Furious Resolve maxed, which is a 20% gap. Since you're comparing it to 28/43 then sure, although it's just a guess, you're probably going to need the threat reduction.
5 extra points is gravy. You can either put them into whatever suits. This is depending on good one-handed dps axes dropping in raids as well. Depending on the drop, the spec can be changed to swords. If there are no drops, take out the weapon spec points and put them back into deep fury with the possibility of bloodsurge, etc. Here's a variant of that.
I don't think there's the need to diversify DPS warrior specs for PvE. Fury should be the PvE DPS spec as Arms is already the PvP spec. I'd rather see BF reduced in effectivity and moved into the Fury tree (compare it to e.g. improved Hunter's Mark), than artificially introducing the dependency on using 2h. It's not like we have 2-3 DPS warrior slots where we want diversity, we are in most cases dealing with just 1 DPS warrior slot, and I'd prefer to have the choice between 2x1h or 2x2h, not to be forced to play whatever spec provides the current 4% BF.
5 extra points is gravy. You can either put them into whatever suits. This is depending on good one-handed dps axes dropping in raids as well. Depending on the drop, the spec can be changed to swords. If there are no drops, take out the weapon spec points and put them back into deep fury with the possibility of bloodsurge, etc. Here's a variant of that.
Since you have 5 spare points there, what about getting Sword spec too? Grab a fast OH sword and a slow MH axe and you've got something like the rogue Fist/Sword spec. Or does the "Can't occur more than once every 6 seconds" on Sword spec make this worthless?
Does anyone think hybrid arms/prot or fury/prot will be viable for high end raiding now? With shield slam trainable, and since most mitigation talents are placed early in the prot tree, there may be some interesting options.
On the arms side, it seems like taking points up to Trauma, or even up to Endless Rage, might be profitable for tanking due to the extra gains in threat/rage. Endless Rage could lead to more bosses where Heroic Strike (with improved crit) is spammable. Unrelenting assault might also add to threat, depending on how often revenge will proc now. Is it possible that these gains could offset the threat/rage efficiency further down the prot tree?
For Fury, Intensify Rage would definitely help for rage starved fights.
5 extra points is gravy. You can either put them into whatever suits. This is depending on good one-handed dps axes dropping in raids as well. Depending on the drop, the spec can be changed to swords. If there are no drops, take out the weapon spec points and put them back into deep fury with the possibility of bloodsurge, etc. Here's a variant of that.
There are so many options now I think I will be very happy I can choose depending on how my luck is.
This is essentially the same thing I was considering (although maybe Bloodletting over TC for raids), the only deciding factor would be gear availability. Until you can get double axes, Incite might be the better option, and it might even still be the better option after that or possibly equal to. But again, it all depends on whether or not any adjustments were made to the innate threat of Heroic Strike.
I am also wondering, now that Shield Slam will be trainable (ugh...), why not try a One Hand MS/SS Build, going up to Concussion Blow, rather than into the Fury tree?
Tanking multiple mobs as prot has now become relatively easy now with the addition of bloodbath, shockwave, and stalwart protector. 2 rage every parry/dodge also means you can spam these things more often with the more mobs you have on you.
I really believe the prot talents are very sufficient for threat.
Improved block value %
-3 rage all skills
+2 Rage per parry/dodge
Devastate
Chance for free shield slam on devastate/shield slam
Increased chance to crit heroic strike
Buff a target (likely your most aggro whore) with vigilance for -10% threat on that person
That's a lot to offer versus a gimmick talent way down another tree. Plus you get to retain the yummy protection talents.
I really believe the prot talents are very sufficient for threat.
Improved block value %
-3 rage all skills
+2 Rage per parry/dodge
Devastate
Chance for free shield slam on devastate/shield slam
Increased chance to crit heroic strike
Buff a target (likely your most aggro whore) with vigilance for -10% threat on that person
That's a lot to offer versus a gimmick talent way down another tree. Plus you get to retain the yummy protection talents.
As an MT definately not, but as an offtank i can see some value in it. Something along the lines of this build would allow almost the same survivability of a full prot with a noticeable drop in threat output but it means you save a raid spot by not taking a dedicated BF dps bot(not to mention making the dps warriors sigh with relief that they don't have to be restricted to taking it).
n.b: the build doesn't have points in SD because of the uncertainty of how the execute threat modifier is going to be handled but they could easily be moved into it if it turns out golden.
I would guess not, that would beyond trivialize threat-based tauntable encounters. Just have the tank cast it on himself and spam taunt.
Though, that doesn't stop two tanks casting it on each other and spamming taunt. Might give the healers a headache.
It would give healers more than a headache. Even without the meteor slash, I don't think Brutallus would work at all if you had two tanks spamming taunt. Tanks need constant incoming heals on that fight and if the aggro is bouncing you would have wasted heals. Those wasted heals mean you will require additional healers--period.
The aggro reduction component is actually a nice touch. You can put this on a high threat player (perhaps a DPS warrior) to make their life easier overall.
It would give healers more than a headache. Even without the meteor slash, I don't think Brutallus would work at all if you had two tanks spamming taunt. Tanks need constant incoming heals on that fight and if the aggro is bouncing you would have wasted heals. Those wasted heals mean you will require additional healers--period.
The aggro reduction component is actually a nice touch. You can put this on a high threat player (perhaps a DPS warrior) to make their life easier overall.
And what would be the purpose of 5% dodge when you are buffing a party/raid member to decrease they're threat, and if that is the intended usage for that skill, does that mean were the new BoS buffers ?
As it stands I can't understand what's the purpose of Vigilance, I mean, who needs 5% dodge and 10% threat reduction? If there is going to be a fight with a gimmick that would make this skill useful, then why make it a 31 point talent ?
I don't think there's the need to diversify DPS warrior specs for PvE. Fury should be the PvE DPS spec as Arms is already the PvP spec. I'd rather see BF reduced in effectivity and moved into the Fury tree (compare it to e.g. improved Hunter's Mark), than artificially introducing the dependency on using 2h. It's not like we have 2-3 DPS warrior slots where we want diversity, we are in most cases dealing with just 1 DPS warrior slot, and I'd prefer to have the choice between 2x1h or 2x2h, not to be forced to play whatever spec provides the current 4% BF.
I agree. Since they streamlined each tree into a specific use, they should just go all the way with it. For example, Weapon Mastery and Blood Frenzy/Trauma should be swapped. Enrage should also be moved into the arms tree. The most logical swap would be with Deep Wounds to build the synergy with BF. Impale is a toughy. It really helps with the MS build but it also helps with fury. Given that most people's spare points from arms/fury builds will go into the others tree, leaving Impale isn't as big of a problem. Also, if BF/Trauma moves over for Weapon Mastery, need to balance out the points as well a bit.
I am also wondering, now that Shield Slam will be trainable (ugh...), why not try a One Hand MS/SS Build, going up to Concussion Blow, rather than into the Fury tree?
I'd probably swap some stuff around in both of those builds. Imp shieldbash is pretty important for any prot build now since it adds another 10% to your shieldslam, the added utility of a 3 second silence is also nice to have. Depending on what happens with vigilance, that's better than imp taunt.
Prot specs will probably vary based on the encounter design. If there's a lot of magic damage or a fight like Kael'thas where you have to survive a pyro, the 6% from imp defensive stance becomes valuable. If the damage is mostly physical, then you want a talent like imp shieldblock. I figure there's about 12 talent points that are "free" in my must-have talent build (which is coming out as 8/0/51). I've got one "floater" point assigned to incite in this build, but you could just as easily put it into any talent below conc blow.
Also, Imp mortal strike is a waste since it doesn't buy you any GCD time. If you're really taking it for tanking purposes (assuming you'll have unlimited rage), then the 5% extra damage and 1 second faster cooldown doesn't matter. There's a lot of wasted talents in a 1h MS OT build at this time. I think the current assumption is that MS and shieldslam share a common cooldown, but you'd have to ask one of the beta testers.
With much higher AP values on tanking gear in Lichking, a bloodthirst/prot build (something like this) might be a much better idea. If you didn't have to take enrage for flurry, it'd be a much stronger spec. I'd be interested to see how the healing threat from bloodthirst gets assigned. You figure about 20-22k health on a tank today, that's 218-240 threat every time you get healed from it (300-330 healing * 0.5 healing threat modifier * 1.45 for defensive stance).
As an MT definately not, but as an offtank i can see some value in it.
Can you elaborate on this? How would going down he arms tree keep your survivability a a MT and as well put out moer threat and keep the same functionality that a MT requires?
And what would be the purpose of 5% dodge when you are buffing a party/raid member to decrease they're threat, and if that is the intended usage for that skill, does that mean were the new BoS buffers ?
As it stands I can't understand what's the purpose of Vigilance, I mean, who needs 5% dodge and 10% threat reduction? If there is going to be a fight with a gimmick that would make this skill useful, then why make it a 31 point talent ?
Best regards,
Trash/5mans. Not all talents are designed around boss encounters.
Can you elaborate on this? How would going down he arms tree keep your survivability a a MT and as well put out moer threat and keep the same functionality that a MT requires?
I think he's actually referring to an alternative off tank build, not an MT build. At least that's the only way what he posted would make any sense to me.
07/22/08, 10:24 PM
Similar Threads
