Gellor

Can anyone confirm what sort of damage Enraged Assault does? From it's description i'm assuming its a single target WW for dual wielders (attacks with all weapons). If this is the case doesn't this make it superior to BT for raid dps using TG?

 

Shha

I don't really think we will have rage problems with 2x2h for keeping up normal rotation. Not with imp zerker rage every 20 sec (adding 60 rage per minute as opposed to 20 from AM), BR every 40 sec. Remember that TG will get a lot less benefit from using heroics too, but wotlk seems to provide a bit more of rage/cooldown dumps.

As for Unending Fury - the simplest fix I can think of, making the talent desirable and fun, would be to simply change the reset of cd on BT to a reset of CD on Enraged Assault + light it up ,or maybe just to simplify it make it so when it procs Enreaged Assault doesnt trigger a CD/eat an enrage buff.

 

Trondheim

Right now it's marked as nyi, and you can just use it whenever without consuming an enrage. It does refresh bloodthirst if you have the talent for it do so, so it's basically just an instant that can refresh bt right now. It does ~weapon dmg right now, and wasn't hitting twice for me.

 

gia

How about a 30% chance to light up victory rush? The ability seems a little forgotten in the new talents. I'd like Imp. MS to be changed to that as well.

 

Shha

While not as powerful, thats definitely a step in right direction. If they make Unending Fury proc Victory Rush, it basically keeps the talent intact in terms of burst for PvP (VR=BT), but it adds a nice pve boost that the talent needed.

 

Steveharris

I wouldn't say there's anything really wrong with Unending Assault; it could be polished, yes. But you could also argue that Blizzard doesn't want to break it or anything. It seems right now Fury is walking a thin edge between strong but balanced, and broken/overpowered. I'm not sure having it light up VR would be that much different than what it does currently; the main difference would be the rage cost and maybe a few thousand damage over the course of a long boss fight.

My main issue with it is that it's very similar to Imp MS, but located 2 tiers lower in the tree. Since the current buzzword seems to be "synergy" why not have it decrease rage costs (like it does now) and increase the crit chance of BT? More BT crits=more damage from BT, and more instant slams.

 

Xtek

I am overall really happy with the "buffs," to Fury warriors.

This is the talent spec I came up with.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...12053120501051

 

Shha

Yes, everyone seems to put Unending Assault in their specs, even though math shows its not really worth it, I guess in such case, we cant expect quick buffs to it, since Blizzard usually makes changes based on skill popularity rather then straight balance .

One more thing, that I think was not mentioned it - it will require some spreadsheet/sim work, but for now it seems about sure that crit rating will be THE stat in wotlk for warriors - taking over from Str (There are of course other good stats like expertise/armor pen - but im focusing on things we can actually socket/enchant easily.

Instant Slams from BT crits are one of the reasons - rolling deep wounds are another. If deep wounds work correctly then every crit adds 48% of our weapon damage - rough estimate says that with a 2x3.5 2h with wf/flurry/instants, you are looking at attacking around 1/second. In such condition every 1% crit gives you 0.48% of weapon damage/second - or if you prefer (0.25*AP+weapon base damage)*0.0048dps, just from deep wounds.

Given the lvl 70 stats (for some "easy-to-spot comparison) - 1% crits gives you in realm of 13 deep wound dps with trauma/mangle up. Thats more then enough to cover up the difference - even counting that extra ap also scales deep wounds up. Currently with best gear, 1 crit adds maybe 35 dps - the extra 13 easily pushes it ahead of str, and most of the time ahead of ArP.

 

Rakki

Pardon my ignorance, what changes to Deep Wound have been implemented?

I kept seeing the phrase "rolling deep wound", but I don't really understand what it means?

EDIT: I have one more question. Has anyone confirmed if 2H-weapon specialization does increase Titan's Grip DW damage?

 

Skjalg

As I see it, the biggest change to Warrior tanking in WOTLK is that we now cant spam the shield block button all the time to be immune. Now we can only pop that in shear(illidan) situations.
Shield Block

Also, with the new strength based talents and the way it affects block, and in that respect damage with Shield Slam do you guys think it would be a good idea to regem your red sockets in the t6 set with pure +strength items when WOTLK launches?

 

Gink

@ Rakki:

Rolling Deep Wounds means that if you crit again before Deep Wounds has finished it's duration, any leftover damage of the old DoT will be carried over to the new DoT, instead of just having the DoT refreshed.
However; http://elitistjerks.com/850510-post844.html

And yes, TG benefits from 2h Specialization at the moment.

 

Liar

I doubt it. If we want more threat, we'd socket Expertise and Hit gems first. Then maybe Strength gems (maybe even ArP gems?). If you want more avoidance, you are going to socket Dodge. If you want more health, you are going to socket Stamina. Just because Strength now adds threat and BV doesn't mean it becomes the answer to all Warrior tanking gear issues.

Unexpected TankPoints error Clearly someone doesn't understand how EH works. That, or upgrading from T8 to T9 is optional in beating Arthas. Clearly.

 

Tharia

Running around in Sunwellgear you possibly can't actually use more hit or expertise in early 5mans so str might be the way to go. But you could just as easy equip some dps/pvp items and get the same effect without money involved.

 

Liar

I'm sorry, is this a reply to me? I transfered my Beta character with full T6 and I replaced 1-2 items so far at level 77. My hit and expertise ratings are so horrible from leveling up that I have to enchant expertise and use DPS gear to get capped on Hit and Expertise.
The other thing is that level 70 instances are so easy that you can tank em in full DPS gear and shield equipped so it doesn't matter if you run around in SW, T6, T5 or T4 gear. My post is refering to level 80 exclusively when you are actually going to socket gear properly (really, who is going to resocket their T6 for leveling?).

And FWIW, there is exactly one new item I have seen that is an upgrade/sidegrade which has a socket slot so I really doubt there will be any socket swapping going on for tanks until you are level 80.

EDIT: I assume the misunderstanding here is caused by the fact that you think T6 will only last for the first few leveling instances - which is wrong as I mentioned above.

Unexpected TankPoints error Clearly someone doesn't understand how EH works. That, or upgrading from T8 to T9 is optional in beating Arthas. Clearly.

 

Tharia

t3 lasted mostly until 70 and only then got exchanged and I actually expect t6 to be the same.
But as your post is about lvl 80 although you were answering to someone talking about resocketing t6 when wotlk launches, I'm not quite sure it's me who misunderstood something...
At 80, you need double rating for 1 expertise than at 70. Lots of tanks are way over 10% epxertise. Getting capped for trashmobs at 77 shouldn't be a problem when you geared for expertise before which many tanks are, although I just realize I forgot the loss of defiance, might be a problem in levels > 75.
But basically we said the same, just equip some dps items

 

Skjalg

Ah okay good to hear Liar.

One other thing tho, you said you had transfered your character to a beta realm, how different is tanking now (especially with the latest big patch)? I was thinking of leveling up in instances for the rep, but you say tanking the instances is easy, does this mean that I should run a dps talent spec so I can quest at the same time?

 

nfw

They won't according to

WoW Forums -> Raid stacking in Wrath of the Lich King

"2) To get a 5% melee crit bonus, you can bring a Feral druid for Leader of the Pack or a Fury warrior for Rampage. "

 

Liar

I leveled as Prot myself (but maybe I am the only that enjoys Prot DPS/leveling) so I can't really tell you if you can tank entry level instances full DPS gear with a shield plus a full DPS spec; it definitely works as Prot with DPS gear + Shield though.
In any case, if you have good DPS gear, you won't regret leveling as Prot because it isn't that much slower than Fury when you get to ~75 because of rating inflation. To clarify, I leveled to 71 as DW Titangrip and it was a blast. I didn't level my Warrior any further than that in the alpha until Beta was released and my chars were boosted to 75 automatically. From there on I leveled as Prot because (the old?) TG is just horrible without top of the line gear (especially crit/hit) and I love having access to 2 more stuns and Last Stand (seriously, it was that bad with all the hit/crit/expertise I lost from leveling up). If you decide to level as Prot then Thunderclap is going to replace Cleave and maybe even WW because it hits for around 600 in full DPS gear + Shield vs lvl 76 mobs (yes, it's that great and I don't have top of the line DPS gear either since it's my offspec on live). I haven't tested the new TC yet, so can't comment on that but I doubt it got changed for the worse.

Unexpected TankPoints error Clearly someone doesn't understand how EH works. That, or upgrading from T8 to T9 is optional in beating Arthas. Clearly.

 

Skjalg

Well they just increased the cd on thunderclap from 4 to 6 seconds and have some talents that boosts cleave now (+120% damage and increased crit chance, but that also works for tc). So if you spec for it I don't think it will suck...

I'll probably go for a fury/prot spec and just change into my tanking gear if I'm going to tank and dps gear for dps'ing.
Maybe something like this;
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...10050100000000
Highlights of the build is to hit Vitality in the prot tree for the strength and stamina bonus, and Bloodthirst in the fury tree (since it gets better with more ap, which I get from Vitality). Any comments on the spec?

 

Liar

I only did some little testing (the beta server lag and instability still pisses me off - why do they hand out new keys to people when the server isn't stable?), but the TC coefficient is definitely less than 25%. It seems to be around 10-15% with imp TC and 1h spec.

@Skjalg: TC crit damage is only 150%, I'll make sure to suggest they ramp it up to 200% since it does physical damage. It still has better TPR than Cleave because it doesn't eat up your On Next swing and hits up to 4 mobs though.

Unexpected TankPoints error Clearly someone doesn't understand how EH works. That, or upgrading from T8 to T9 is optional in beating Arthas. Clearly.

 

nfw

Not only that, but also improved cleave only increase the BONUS damage of cleave, so it increases each cleave by 84 damage.

P.S. 1 handed spec doesn't increase thunderclap damage, for some reason, even though it's physical damage.

 

Crimsonbeak

While the buffs to Fury are awesome the fact that the rampage buff is just a worse version of Leader of the pack still provides no incentive to bring in a Fury Warrior in to a raid over an arms warrior.

 

PSGarak

On the other hand, with LotP now being a very very marginal improvement over Rampage, there's no reason to bring a feral over another tank if you have a fury warrior lying around. And on the third hand, with Blood Frenzy being nerfed to 2%, the raid benefit of Arms is within the realm of possibility of being balanced out by Fury's personal DPS. 2% to 8 classes means fury only has to be about 16% better, which would be unsurprising.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Garak.png

 

Juelz

TC also can't me dodge, parried, or blocked. It is hit or resist, meaning it is a spell that does physical damage.

 

Shha

LotP is actually a huge improvement over Rampage. 20 yard range means that lets say on fight like KJ you have 2 people in range etc. LotP being 45 yard range, is a LOT more powerful.