Hellcry

Many glyphs, any idea which ones are minor and major? Thanks for posting the changes so quick btw.

 

Branar

Holy crap. Is this the glyph that Ghostwalker said would be a "minor component" in prot warrior AOE threat?

 

Juelz

Thunderclaps hitting 8 targets
Devastates hitting 2 targets
Warrior version of Retribution Aura
Shock Wave

We're looking good for aoe tanking

 

Future

Those glyph changes actually seem to fill in a few gaps.
Looks like something may have been worth waiting for.

 

Trondheim

Don't forget we also have 100% block with unlimited charges and double block value for 10 seconds for the start of a group - it's a really nice change.

 

mefe4r

Prot tree looks AMAZING right now so many changes and now they merged a few talents for now less points!

 

mistersix

Agreed on listening to the feedback. What do you think this does to intercept? A bit pointless and redundant no (at least for prot)? It's extra mobility which is cool. I hope we see raid encounters that take this in to account.

What do we all think about the new s+b? Seems better, yes?

 

Juelz

It certainly follows the suit of them saying "prot will do alot more damage."

We now have Heroic Strike, Thunder Clap, Devastate, Cleave, and Shield Slam with +15% crit, with an extra 5% on top of that, and 20% extra crit damage for all of those abilities (the freeing-up of points in the prot tree allows us to grab Impale).

 

mistersix

Vigilance doesn't mention the 10%threat transfer that blue mentioned would be coming up. Anyone know if they changed their intent for that? Or is that just likely a push discrepancy or an error in the tooltip? Can someone test?

Does anyone know if the improved disarm effect is just a personal dps while the mob is disarmed or a party/raid wide dps boost?

If the trees don't change too terribly much from here then I can see this build being a likely candidate for me:
14/5/52. It's thematically very similar to what I have today in that it's about rage efficiencies (cheaper heroic strikes, devastates, focused rage) and maxing out the boost to threat moves and threat move damage. Currently, to achieve the latter I do so at the cost of more mitigation style talents like imp shield wall. They've smartly bundled that together now with a damage boost to shield slam so people no longer have to decide between mitigation or threat.

Where the choices now sit are in mobility and utility. A build like this: 14/5/52 sacrifices the rage efficiencies I listed above but picks up vigilance, warbringer, safeguard and even some iron will and imp disciplines which could make retaliation tanking (something we're hearing blue talk about lately) even more fun and viable (and make trash tanking even more crazy). You could drop anger management and shift a point from imp disc to imp charge for more synergy with the mobility idea.

It seems like they haven't brought as much decision-making or moved away from cookie-cutter builds as much as they had hoped but at least know the choices are more about playstyle and less about min/maxing for mitigation or threat.

 

Shha

One big choice i see for prot is to take deep wounds or not. Im surprised people overlooked it. I have around 15% crit without cruelty raid buffed now - cant see it changing much in wotlk. With some more focus on crit + cruelty+ new crit talents + rampage/lotp on the raid + totems on the raid etc I can see myself getting to 45-50% crit on about everything I do as prot. Even with fast prot weapons (although with coming changes to heroic it wont be as obvious), such huge crit rate and basically 2 attacks every gcd make for a huge dps increase. Its basically in realm of 30% of your average weapon damage per second total - adding like 100 dps at lvl 70! thats easily a 15% threat increase on a lot of fights, and no less then 10%.

Other then that - BF is now alvaiable to combat rogues, so I guess arms warriors arent unique. Considering rogues get it more reliably/easier, arms needs to be competitive now with fury and prot i guess in personal dps.

 

mistersix

I could even imagine people testing out something like this for 2v2 arenas: 31/0/40 or 36/0/35 for some of that cc/survivability pvp flavor the blues are talking about while not losing the MS debuff (obviously shift the shield spec points to imp bloodrage or tm as desired).

 

Dulak

Current level 70 tanking pieces have been altered to include strength. Comparing a certain set from live to beta:

Live: 508 AP, 26,97% dodge, 22,55% parry, 13,32 miss, 625 block value (with talents and 10% block value meta)
Beta: 1015 AP, 24,49% dodge, 19,26% parry, 11,12% miss, 836 block value (with talents and 5% block value meta)

 

Tornaz

You know, the concept of tanking in a deep Arms spec using that glyph of Revenge and Unrelenting Assault is quite interesting. Putting in Incite and the Glyph of Heroic strike for comedy value, and wield a 1.5 speed weapon, and you have Revenge limited only by GCD, which then gives you permanently free Heroic strikes with a 40% crit rate returning 10 rage whenever they crit...

Enraged Regeneration now makes (ironically) Enrage very desirable.

The Glyph of blocking is just beautiful, if it works the way I think it does and essentially makes Sheild Slam proc extra damage on your next Shield Slam, with some bonus mitigation thrown in for free.

 

• Jamor

I had a feeling this was coming. And let me start by saying I had a good amount of beer tonight, but all of the cold, pissed off feelings I have had about the direction of prot crumbled in about 5 minutes of reading.

We need a nerf....

EDIT: Also to those questioning if the in combat / Defensive stance charge is going to be worth it, I have a feral druid alt (as well as a prot pally), and feral charge is much more natural feeling that using intercept. I for one, will def. be picking up the new talent now.

 

Lithose

With current arena gear, and no glyphs, my Shield Slam will hit for about 1400, with *no pve* gear except for the auto blocker (Without enage, or auto block active.). It will have a 50% crit rate, with just that same arena armor..Every 40 seconds it can hit for 2100, also, which is more than an enraged MS currently.

Also, every 15 seconds, I will have a root/snare break..An AE stun that will hit for 1500 (About what MS hits for.) a 5 second stun that hits for 1500, 3 seconds of silence every 12 seconds (highest up time in the game for silence, I believe.) and the ability to put a pain suppression up for 6 seconds every 30 seconds. The only downside is that the charge stuns will DR the Conc blow/Shock wave..So you would need to be careful when using charge for breaks. But really, other than that, prot looks like its going to be absolutely ridiculous in the arena, even without MS..25 rage per charge, with the abilities listed, should be incredible in so far as damage goes. Not to mention, any melee against you will be taking 200 damage almost every time they hit you if they attack from the front (in current gear.).

With glyphs it becomes even more crazy, even with *todays* arena gear..Those shield slams will hit for 10% more, the charge will be usable at 30 yards, its cool down will be 12 seconds (One less if they are all greater glyphs.)..But even a 30 yard, root/snare breaking, 25 rage, usable in any stance charge every 12 seconds seems so powerful, combined with the other talents, that I can see this spec being very very dominant in even high end arena play. Especially in 2v2 with with a rogue partner...You can potentially Conc-->Shockwave-->Silence for a full 10-12 seconds of CC, all while doing a really high amount of damage.

Protection looks so solid now..Its numbers might need to come down, because they do seem awfully high (+Crit stuff might have to come down, or the amount of AP conc/Shock does, slightly.) but the "design" seems solid, the general feel of the tree and the usefulness of the talents all seem amazing. Seriously, someone should give the warrior dev a pat on the back, this is nice stuff.

 

PsyBomb

I was under the impression that any given ability could only be the subject of one glyph, specifically to prevent things like that charge-stacking sequence.

To teach and to learn, to laugh and make others laugh. This is my purpose, and any day in which I don't wasn't worth the time it took to get through.

 

Lithose

Perhaps, I haven't heard anything about that, but I'm not brushed up on glyphs, except for Major/Minor restrictions.

 

• landsoul

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...arrior_dps.jpg Warrior Set

versus

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...ax10_rogue.jpg Rogue Set

Looks like plate loses to leather again due to strange itemization. Bad Blizzard, Bad!

 

mistersix

Ghostcrawler is a diety.

and to complement landsoul's post above this one here's the naxx10 warrior tank gear:
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...rrior_tank.jpg

other tank gear for comparison
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...night_tank.jpg
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...ladin_tank.jpg
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...ruid_feral.jpg

Gemming gear just got reaaaaaaaaaally interesting.

 

Alaron

EDIT: I'm a retard, ignore the comment about the BS vs BoM glyphs. It seems that they toned down the also adds spell damage to simply increasing the duration by 20 minutes.

I'm also still hoping to see some equivalent to the rage return on dodge/parry/block that blessing of sanctuary appears to give. Having such a major buff to tank scaling only be available from a 3rd party class (and one that will compete for your roll to boot) really needs some reconsideration.

 

Lasie

There does seem to be quite a few more stat points allocated to stamina on the warrior set.

It's kinda sad that in order to have the higher stam levels to cover the Zerker stance penalty we lose DPS stats. Maybe this is their "new" way of trying to scale us back instead of using agility.

Even more interesting is the fact that putting 1 point in deep wounds + the other good arms talents allows for Justified Killing. Which really interests me. It means losing several points in cruelty, which I don't know how will play out.

I wonder if a build with Justified Killing would make for a great +threat build if you could find gear that would have high amounts of parry+str. Parry already adds an amount of haste, so with a justified killing build parry might make a very nice threat stat.

 

Graul

Other than the wasted points, those pieces have flat ArP numbers instead of ratings, which I could have sworn they were changing it to.

 

frber

So essentially developers made the protection tree so slim that you don't need to chose what to get but can simply pick everything? And still have enough left to get some goodies from lower tier Arms or Fury.


In contrast to Arms where you still have lots of more or less mandatory talents. And way too many talent points to spend on each tier. They really need to slim down Arms (and Fury) as well. And reduce the number of 5-point talents and possibly even combine a few.

At least they should change:

* Deep Wounds made into a 1 point talent for maybe 25% effect.

*2-handed Specialization to 3 points for 2/4/6%

* Weapon Specializations: 3 points for 2/4/6% with Axe/sword. Similar for Mace.

* Improved Mortal Strike: Change to 3 points also but need something else as well. Perhaps 2/4/6% Damage and increase its Critical strike chance by 2/4/6% as well? Though the current version that can safely be ignored is nice in a way since there are soo many other talents to put points in.

* Wrecking Crew to 3 points would be nice as well.

Those changes would make it so you mostly chose what to get on one Tier and then move onto the next. Only sometimes using more points to fill out lower tiers. And if ending up with 51 points in Arms you'd have at least most of the really good talents (like you have after 51 points in Prot).

If making wrecking Crew a 3 point talent you'd need to add one or two 2 point talents to give a choice at that tier though. Perhaps something like

* Combat Mastery: 2 points for 50/100% chance 'hold onto your weapon while disarmed; but all damage done by weapons is reduced by 75% (so can still keep Mortal strike/Hamstring/pummel up while 'disarmed' but not do too much damage). Would be a viable Arms alternative to the Fury talent maybe?

* Combat Agility. 2 points for 3/6% agility and 2/4 expertise? As a PvE option? Perhaps thats not good enough.



Also assuming you do get 51 point into Arms now and Bladestorm is worth it. What else to get for PvP? It seems 15 points into Protection is really nice now for toughness. But if having those 15 points into Protection already and only 5 points to spare is Cruelty for 5% Crit really better than Last Stand, Improved Revenge (stuns is nice for PvP I guess), and Improved disarm?

Kind of like how Toughness competes with Piercing Howl though as either making you less vunlerable to snares/kiting or giving the option to slow people in return as they slow you.

 

Lasie

Don't armor values scale with level? So that a level 80 mob has more armor then a level 70 mob?

So for example if bosses had twice the armor they did now roughly, it would take twice the amount of armor pen to achieve the same effect, therefore preserving the rating system.

 

Graul

The rating system by default would take care of this. Changing it from a straight numerical reduction to a percentage has a greater effect on higher armored targets than lower, which is the opposite of now. It also makes "armor penetration" do just that.