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08/23/08, 1:02 PM
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#1216
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Glass Joe
Draenei Warrior
Burning Blade (EU)
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Ah okay good to hear Liar.
One other thing tho, you said you had transfered your character to a beta realm, how different is tanking now (especially with the latest big patch)? I was thinking of leveling up in instances for the rep, but you say tanking the instances is easy, does this mean that I should run a dps talent spec so I can quest at the same time?
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08/23/08, 1:20 PM
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#1217
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by Ultramax
New rampage is passive. No idea on stacking.
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They won't according to
WoW Forums -> Raid stacking in Wrath of the Lich King
"2) To get a 5% melee crit bonus, you can bring a Feral druid for Leader of the Pack or a Fury warrior for Rampage. "
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08/23/08, 2:08 PM
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#1218
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Never, Mags. Never!
Human Death Knight
Turalyon (EU)
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Originally Posted by Skjalg
One other thing tho, you said you had transfered your character to a beta realm, how different is tanking now (especially with the latest big patch)? I was thinking of leveling up in instances for the rep, but you say tanking the instances is easy, does this mean that I should run a dps talent spec so I can quest at the same time?
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I leveled as Prot myself (but maybe I am the only that enjoys Prot DPS/leveling) so I can't really tell you if you can tank entry level instances full DPS gear with a shield plus a full DPS spec; it definitely works as Prot with DPS gear + Shield though.
In any case, if you have good DPS gear, you won't regret leveling as Prot because it isn't that much slower than Fury when you get to ~75 because of rating inflation. To clarify, I leveled to 71 as DW Titangrip and it was a blast. I didn't level my Warrior any further than that in the alpha until Beta was released and my chars were boosted to 75 automatically. From there on I leveled as Prot because (the old?) TG is just horrible without top of the line gear (especially crit/hit) and I love having access to 2 more stuns and Last Stand (seriously, it was that bad with all the hit/crit/expertise I lost from leveling up). If you decide to level as Prot then Thunderclap is going to replace Cleave and maybe even WW because it hits for around 600 in full DPS gear + Shield vs lvl 76 mobs (yes, it's that great and I don't have top of the line DPS gear either since it's my offspec on live). I haven't tested the new TC yet, so can't comment on that but I doubt it got changed for the worse.
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08/23/08, 2:51 PM
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#1219
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Glass Joe
Draenei Warrior
Burning Blade (EU)
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Well they just increased the cd on thunderclap from 4 to 6 seconds and have some talents that boosts cleave now (+120% damage and increased crit chance, but that also works for tc). So if you spec for it I don't think it will suck...
I'll probably go for a fury/prot spec and just change into my tanking gear if I'm going to tank and dps gear for dps'ing.
Maybe something like this;
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...10050100000000
Highlights of the build is to hit Vitality in the prot tree for the strength and stamina bonus, and Bloodthirst in the fury tree (since it gets better with more ap, which I get from Vitality). Any comments on the spec? |
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08/23/08, 3:02 PM
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#1220
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Never, Mags. Never!
Human Death Knight
Turalyon (EU)
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Originally Posted by Borodin
I'd suspect the Thunderclap co-efficient is 25% of AP as with Concussion Blow and various other moves which have gained an AP contribution.
Liar or anyone else in Beta please test!
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I only did some little testing (the beta server lag and instability still pisses me off - why do they hand out new keys to people when the server isn't stable?), but the TC coefficient is definitely less than 25%. It seems to be around 10-15% with imp TC and 1h spec.
@Skjalg: TC crit damage is only 150%, I'll make sure to suggest they ramp it up to 200% since it does physical damage. It still has better TPR than Cleave because it doesn't eat up your On Next swing and hits up to 4 mobs though.
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08/23/08, 4:02 PM
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#1221
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Don Flamenco
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Not only that, but also improved cleave only increase the BONUS damage of cleave, so it increases each cleave by 84 damage.
P.S. 1 handed spec doesn't increase thunderclap damage, for some reason, even though it's physical damage.
Last edited by nfw : 08/23/08 at 4:13 PM.
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08/23/08, 4:42 PM
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#1222
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Computer Fixer Guy
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While the buffs to Fury are awesome the fact that the rampage buff is just a worse version of Leader of the pack still provides no incentive to bring in a Fury Warrior in to a raid over an arms warrior.
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08/23/08, 4:48 PM
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#1223
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Bald Bull
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On the other hand, with LotP now being a very very marginal improvement over Rampage, there's no reason to bring a feral over another tank if you have a fury warrior lying around. And on the third hand, with Blood Frenzy being nerfed to 2%, the raid benefit of Arms is within the realm of possibility of being balanced out by Fury's personal DPS. 2% to 8 classes means fury only has to be about 16% better, which would be unsurprising.
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08/23/08, 5:06 PM
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#1224
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Glass Joe
Tauren Warrior
Bonechewer
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Originally Posted by nfw
Not only that, but also improved cleave only increase the BONUS damage of cleave, so it increases each cleave by 84 damage.
P.S. 1 handed spec doesn't increase thunderclap damage, for some reason, even though it's physical damage.
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TC also can't me dodge, parried, or blocked. It is hit or resist, meaning it is a spell that does physical damage.
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08/23/08, 5:17 PM
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#1225
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King Hippo
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Originally Posted by PSGarak
On the other hand, with LotP now being a very very marginal improvement over Rampage, there's no reason to bring a feral over another tank if you have a fury warrior lying around. And on the third hand, with Blood Frenzy being nerfed to 2%, the raid benefit of Arms is within the realm of possibility of being balanced out by Fury's personal DPS. 2% to 8 classes means fury only has to be about 16% better, which would be unsurprising.
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LotP is actually a huge improvement over Rampage. 20 yard range means that lets say on fight like KJ you have 2 people in range etc. LotP being 45 yard range, is a LOT more powerful.
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08/23/08, 5:19 PM
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#1226
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Piston Honda
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Quick question about Bloodsurge. Does the GCD from BT eat 1.5 seconds of the 5 seconds available to cast the instant slam? I'm assuming it does.
EDIT: Shha in response to your post above, don't forget that LoTP also affect ranged crit for hunters as well. Currently LoTP is superior to Rampage in all aspects.
Last edited by Gellor : 08/23/08 at 5:26 PM.
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08/23/08, 5:30 PM
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#1227
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Bald Bull
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Originally Posted by Shha
LotP is actually a huge improvement over Rampage. 20 yard range means that lets say on fight like KJ you have 2 people in range etc. LotP being 45 yard range, is a LOT more powerful.
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The ability isn't live yet, and it's explicitly intended to be an adequate replacement. I expect both the range, and whether it can affect hunters, to be resolved by release (or T8 at the latest), with the difference between the two being uptime (including ramp-up time on movement fights), and iLotP (marginal).
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08/23/08, 5:32 PM
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#1228
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Von Kaiser
Draenei Death Knight
Hellscream
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Originally Posted by Shha
LotP is actually a huge improvement over Rampage. 20 yard range means that lets say on fight like KJ you have 2 people in range etc. LotP being 45 yard range, is a LOT more powerful.
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Not to mention the fact that LotP is an form associated aura, versus Rampage being activated off of a warriors crits, so you get the 5% crit from Leader for a larger duration of a fight, not to mention the healing component. Ideally they will balance this, perhaps add something extra to rampage, or just change the mechanic/effect to better balance with LotP.
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08/23/08, 5:36 PM
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#1229
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King Hippo
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Yes it does, so it makes Unending Fury even worse. Even assuming you perfectly time enrage effects BEFORE using BT, to follow up with enraged assault - if you proc instant slam, you have to basically forget the extra BT.
The "ideal setup" would be
0.0 - WW
1.5 - berserker rage
3.0 - BT
4.5 - Enraged Assault
6.0 - Instant BT
7.5 - Instant Slam (its already pushing it - any lag and you lose the slam)
9.0 - WW
However this is the ONLY scenario when you dont have to ditch either instant slam or BT. Ironically enough it cant even happen with 9 sec WW rotation.
0.0 - WW
1.5 - BT
7.5 - BT
9.0 - WW
13.5- BT
18 - WW
- at no point in rotation WW precedes BT by exactly 3 sec - Either its earlier (in which case you have to drop instant slam or extra BT, or you lose WW instant, while not gaining more in return), or Later - then you cant use berserker rage before BT , and using it after means you again need to drop one instant off.
With 8 sec rotation there is a possibility of "close match" - where you only lose 0.5 sec on the rotation but:
- it has to be done BEFOREHAND - meaning you lose 0.5 sec on rotation whether or not you get procs
- its 8 sec rotation meaning you lose another 1 sec after - making it useless.
The last option of doing enrage effect before WW , followed by BT right after, sounds promising at 1st - but then a preceding slam proc on previous BT can get in the way.
Either way for every Unending Fury proc, there is a 30% chance that corresponding Bloodsurge proc will get in the way. Effectively reducing the UF procs by 30% - to even lower level. The change from BT to lighting up victory rush gets rid of the problem, since you can wait until NEXT BT , before using it - so while still a DOUBLE bloodsurge proc can in the way (not always), the chance goes down from 30 to 9%.
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08/23/08, 5:49 PM
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#1230
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Shha
Yes it does, so it makes Unending Fury even worse. Even assuming you perfectly time enrage effects BEFORE using BT, to follow up with enraged assault - if you proc instant slam, you have to basically forget the extra BT.
The "ideal setup" would be
0.0 - WW
1.5 - berserker rage
3.0 - BT
4.5 - Enraged Assault
6.0 - Instant BT
7.5 - Instant Slam (its already pushing it - any lag and you lose the slam)
9.0 - WW
However this is the ONLY scenario when you dont have to ditch either instant slam or BT. Ironically enough it cant even happen with 9 sec WW rotation.
0.0 - WW
1.5 - BT
7.5 - BT
9.0 - WW
13.5- BT
18 - WW
- at no point in rotation WW precedes BT by exactly 3 sec - Either its earlier (in which case you have to drop instant slam or extra BT, or you lose WW instant, while not gaining more in return), or Later - then you cant use berserker rage before BT , and using it after means you again need to drop one instant off.
With 8 sec rotation there is a possibility of "close match" - where you only lose 0.5 sec on the rotation but:
- it has to be done BEFOREHAND - meaning you lose 0.5 sec on rotation whether or not you get procs
- its 8 sec rotation meaning you lose another 1 sec after - making it useless.
The last option of doing enrage effect before WW , followed by BT right after, sounds promising at 1st - but then a preceding slam proc on previous BT can get in the way.
Either way for every Unending Fury proc, there is a 30% chance that corresponding Bloodsurge proc will get in the way. Effectively reducing the UF procs by 30% - to even lower level. The change from BT to lighting up victory rush gets rid of the problem, since you can wait until NEXT BT , before using it - so while still a DOUBLE bloodsurge proc can in the way (not always), the chance goes down from 30 to 9%.
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Yup that's the problem i was running into trying to work out a good rotation, you just can't do it. Also when your using enraged assault, the amount of free GCD you have available pretty much disappears, and bloodsurge procs only excerbate the problem. If only we had a 1 sec GCD :/
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