Halion

Can someone bring me up to speed with how this mechanic works? Being a Prot Pally who often tanks alongside a warrior, I was looking forward to a free 5% dodge at times when threat wasn't enough of an issue to worry about the 10% loss.

It seems this isn't the intention of the ability.

I notice that it grants 3 taunt refreshes, following this logically, it is 3 hits and the buff is gone?

My thought now is that this would be a useful ability on something like Maexxna's Enraged Web Wrap, toss Vigilance on the MT for a free 5% dodge, might have fallen off by the time the wrap ends, but it has served its purpose. (Assuming of course either 2 prot warriors or a non-warrior MT and a prot OT)

 

Borodin

Vigilance has a 30 minute duration or 3 hits. The 3 hit limit is designed precisely so you can't grant 5% dodge to another tank (also dropping their threat 10%). If you there was no 3-hit limit 2 Prot Warriors could Vigilance each other, each gaining 5% Dodge and negating the threat drop. 5% Dodge is powerful on a tank, evasion got out of control in TBC....

The intention is you protect someone weaker like a Healer or more likely your highest threat DPSer because the 10% threat drop is now supposed to be a threat leech - cast on your top Warlock and 10% of his threat becomes the Prot Warrior's threat. It was this mechanic I described as a "must have" but it's not made it onto the tooltips and probably not into the PTR yet.
The Taunt refresh is just a bonus really - ideally they won't ever get attacked.

 

mistersix

Has anyone noticed if they've baked the threat leeching part in yet or not? I'm not feeling it on beta but I'm also only running with their built in meter and not a better addon so it's hard to tell.

Nakoda, you're a man after my own heart. I'd love a mechanostrider as well. Heh.

 

Bostung

I wasn't really trying to make a guess at the amount of threat Thunder Clap would be putting out. I was more trying to work out the behind-the-scenes numbers for Thunder Clap and Defensive Stance, so that they could be used for future theorycrafting. I didn't test Incite because it seemed pretty straightforward. It should be granting an extra 15% chance for Thunder Clap to critically hit, and if it doesn't, they'll fix it.

 

Xav

It's not entirely clear for me by your posts, but are you saying the 207% modifier from defensive stance is on top of the 175% tc multiplier? Because that's how I was seeing it ingame. I was doing rough testing on abilities (and similarly concluded Defensive Stance is a 200~% multiplier, or giving you 100% extra threat regardless, even white hits)

And I was seeing my Thunderclap generate about 400% of its damage in threat - Thunderclaps for 800 would be 3200 threat roughly on all of the mobs, which is right around 175+207.35 (I didn't actually do any math, but when I saw TC hit for ~8xx and then see ~32xx threat on the mobs with me doing nothing else, I figured that's what it was doing.

 

Bostung

Yeah, multiplicative, as far as I can tell. So threat would be 1.75*2.0735= 363% of damage. It stacks the same way on live, though with a lower defensive stance multipler, of course.

 

Twid

What is the status of Damage Shield? Last I heard it was working, but not showing any indication of it other than health bars going down. You may want to double check your threat values on TC if the mobs were hitting you.

 

levk

You can't dodge while stunned so won't work for that specifically.

 

hellord

Vigilance would be great in fights like Brutallus, where tanks must taunt at a specific moment and missing one can result in a wipe, or fights like Gurtogg where the main tank should loose aggro. There are some other examples like Nalorakk in ZA or Al'ar and probably there will be more fights designed with such mechanics.

In 5 men instances it will be very good to use it on a healer or a dpsrs especially for the taunt refresh that will reduce the problem of missing a taunt.

There will probably be less use in raids than instances, but overall is a nice talent.
I wonder if it is like intervene that works on target's target so that u don't need to switch.

Is it triggering GCD btw?

 

ioguolo

I have a mod question regarding thunderclap and swing timers. Is there a mod that currently uses the combat log to real time display the swing timer of a boss? I ask this because with the new addition of Thunderclap like ability to curse of weakness, and the amount of debuffs on a boss, it would be nice to see whether he is swinging at 20% reduction or not. I suppose you could just get a debuff filter mod, but I was curious if this existed regardless. It would help in also knowing if the other warrior's thunderclap was on there and if it was improved or not.

 

Rustik

On the topic of Vigilance, I was curious to see how much of an effect a 10% leech would be.

If a ranged dps(x) needs to do 130% of the tank's(t) threat, then how much threat can the dpser actually generate before he pulls?

The DPSer is at 90% of his threat, so he is .9x.

The tank is at 100% of his own threat, plus 10% of the dpser, so the tank is at t+.1x. For the sake of the math, we will make t = 100.

The DPSer needs to do 130% of the tanks threat, so:

1.3(t+.1x) = .9x
1.3t +.13x = .9x
1.3t = .77x
130 = .77x

x = 168.831% threat the DPSer will have to generate to pull aggro.

That is a 29.87% increase. And since it is all based on the tank's threat, the more threat the tank generates, the more threat the dpser can give him. A well coordinated pair (or trio, for safety) could have the warrior surfing a wave of threat at the beginning of a fight. The dps could then use a threat dump to drop back again and the warrior would have a nice lead on everybody else.

This makes a vigilant warrior pretty advantageous over the other tanks, threat wise.

 

Taliafears

I wrote a little simulator for Sword and Board, if anybody's interested the source code is up in my Tanking Spreadsheet thread.

Tanking Spreadsheet

 

Deathwing

New build is up, here's what I notice:

Protection
-Warbring includes the snare/root removal effect of safeguard now(removed from safeguard)
-Safeguard reduced to 15% DR per talent point(don't see as usefull anymore)
-Improved Spell Reflection no longer reduces cooldown(saw that coming)
-Toughness' snare/root duration reduction down to 6% per talent point
-Improved tclap moved to Tier 1, damage increase reduced 10% per talent point(ouch...guess this means the 175% modifier is staying)

Fury
-New tier 1 talent, Armored to the Teeth: 1/2/3 Strength for every 400 armor.
-Booming voice changed to 25/50%
-Bloodthirst heal charges reduced from 1.5% to 0.6% max hp(hey! guess what redundant skill is useful now?)
-Heroic Leap renamed Heroic Fury. Same cooldown, but now removied immobilization effects and refreshes intercept cooldown on use. No rage cost.(kinda meh on this one)
-Unending Fury's section about Enraged Assault removed, replaced with nothing

Arms
-Tactical Mastery replaced Improve Tclap
-Iron Will reduced to 7/13/20% per rank
-2H spec is now 2/4/6%
-Justified Killing removed

 

Grayson Carlyle

Since I was too slow, here's just one more thing:

- Titan's Grip tooltip changed to "damage-dealing abilities that require a weapon", values unchanged

 

• landsoul

Finally, an attempt to bring plate dps gear back from the depths of itemization hell. But still, a 1200 armor upgrade from the leather piece to the plate piece only grants a slim 9 strength. Seems to be a step in the right direction, however. Looks to be an excellent tank talent to pickup.

A 2 point improved shout duration/radius? Give me please!

The thunderclap and arms move were definitely no-brain'ers and an excellent move.

A buff to the 2H spec in arms frees up 2 talent points for all arms and TG warriors, plus improves DPS by a margin at the same time.

The bloodthirst change was necessary in a sense that a warrior in greens/blues could solo from mob to mob without losing any health, or a warrior in decked out gear could go toe to toe with someone else that had low damage and just self heal himself for the win. Also I could imagine some strange prot/bloodthirst builds being strong enough to solo very large things based on the stamina pool (something I was looking forward to trying out). Got chopped literally in half.

Warbrniger turned into an even more annoying PvP/emergency ability, while Safeguard reduced to its mini-protection buff on another player.

 

Fortris

I just punched in a few sample builds to see what i could come up with, and i think for the first time in my entire tenure playing a warrior, Cruelty is a completely optional talent. You cant spec it without giving up some very useful abilities that may arguably be even better.

 

mistersix

I dunno. I felt like cruelty actually got more reason to stay vested in it since the tclap move to prot (which I think is a great move) makes it harder to go deep into arms to get impale and the new armored to the teeth means +150 str for a tank which seems fantastic on paper.

 

Bostung

Another thing I noticed:
-Intervene now reduces the total threat level of your target by 10%

I suppose this means no more intervening the tank. Also, threat heavy DPSers will want intervene used like Hand of Salvation. This could be awkward.

Have to say, I'm not a big fan of the Tactical Mastery / Improved Thunder Clap switch. Improved Thunder Clap always seemed well placed, functioning as a way for DPS warriors to pick up a bit of tank/off-tank viability and providing a way for tanks to get deeper into arms. Now it just forces tanks to spend an extra 3 points in Prot, and keeps us from branching out.

 

Darmon

The change to Intervene makes me think Vigilance threat transfer will never be implemented. And that means we are again at square zero, a 31 talent pointer, on par with MS and BT, who will not be used by any tank who knows his job. One DPS out of 3/6/10+ (5/10/25 groupws) threat tonned down by 10% means nothing, and the rest of the effects are undesirable.

Notice also that Improved TC now gives 30% bonus dmg, instead of 100%.

 

PSGarak

Blue seems to be working off a slightly different version than we are, still.
As far as scaling is concerned, Bloodthirst is better off not being affected by the TG hit penalty, since its damage isn't buffed by weapon damage. Also, horay rider on Blood Frenzy, like many other such talents have been getting. GC followed up to say that Rampage is so awesome at 5% crit it doesn't really need a rider since you would take it for solo work anyways, and that Heroic Leap was ditched because it's so damn buggy it's actually eating time out of their development schedule. And, Arms DPS is performing below benchmarks and can expect buffs.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Garak.png

 

Graul

Not really sure what it will look like at 80, but Arms is currently head and shoulders above any of the other specs for DPS. Just sit in Berserker, dump all of your rage on Slam, Bladestorm when it's up and do as low rage as you can Executes when SD procs. Imp MS may be worth actually pressing now as well. It's also nice to see a confimation that they feel a useless 41 point talent is "fine for soloing" though.

Has anyone been able to confirm whether or not Enrage works from area of effect abilities too? If so, I can't see anyone ever taking Unending Fury for any reason.

 

Writhe

I don't think i follow you on why the intervene change equates to the non implementation to vigilance threat transfer.

I assume the intervene change was to lock down safeguard spam on the MT. Vigilance having its charges removed was probably just an unfinished piece of work that went through with the intervene change just to keep the repository up to date.

To be honest all this fluff about charges on Vigilance was retarded in the first place. The simplest fix* I can see is if you grant the vigilance buff you gain a buff like how soul link works(coder implementation only). All that buff needs to do is take precedence over any new vigilance buffs. Give it a 5min cd and your good to go.

For people that didnt follow that garble: If you buff someone with vigilance you can't gain the vigilance buff from someone else. Is how it should have been implemented in the first place.

*Fix for a possible and likely exploit where two prot warriors can indefinitely taunt off each other.

And in relation to the TC change:
dammit..

Who pulled the surger with the core hound?

 

• landsoul

TG no longer reduces hit of yellow damage, rather it now reduces chance to hit of white damage by 15%.

So therefore, your miss chance on bosses goes from 28% to 43% on bosses. Hooray!

Now instead of being able to reach a hit cap and completely smooth out your rage generation, now you won't have any rage!

The yellow reduction was better.

 

Chirality

Additional changes that rape PvP viability of sub-specc'ing arms.

Toughness: Now 30% reduction, as are other similar talents for other classes. Still 5 points.

Improved Spell Reflect: no longer reduces the cooldown of spell reflect. The talent is now no longer awesome.

Improved Thunderclap: Now increases damage by 10/20/30% instead.
as well as

Booming Voice: 2 points. Increaes Duration of Battle/Demo/Commanding by 25/50%

New Talent: Armored to the Teeth. T1 Fury. Increases Strength by 1/2/3 for every 400 armor you have.




Overall. Very depressing.

It's funny actually--I was running 37/3/21 or something on the PTR, enjoying being able to one-vs-one most players with clutch talents like Concussion Blow, 50% stuns on 1 sec CD revenges, and snare reduction. Problem was: I couldn't deal any meaningful damage.

<Shrug> I have no idea where they're going with Warriors now. Sub-spec'ing prot for Gag Order and Concussion Blow, taking nifty utility talents along the way, looked great. Now? Fuck it. 30% Snare Reduction for 5 awkwardly-placed talent points? I guess you could technically say that Improved Spell Reflect has a use, but only if you're 2v2'ing with a Holy Paladin. Improved Thunderclap got destroyed.

Talents are increasingly look just randomly placed. Toughness, Anticipation, and Shield Spec are fantastic at bloating the bottom of the prot tree, but are just awkward if you're trying to get 20ish points in prot for non-main-tanking.

Shield Spec needs to be a 3 point talent, as does Toughness.

The replacement for Heroic Leap, Heroic Fury, is weak. Yes, removing immobilizing effects (not snares, note) is great, as is refreshing the cooldown of your 30-second (with 4pc arena) cooldown intercept...but Heroic Leap did damage and was an AE stun.


Edit: Landsoul, the current tooltip (talents.mmo-champion.com/?warrior) indicates
"Titan's Grip: Allows you to equip two-handed axes, maces, and swords in one hand. Also reduces your chance to hit with damage-dealing abilities that require a weapon by 15%"

So it's still only extra misses on yellows. Note this applies to Bloodthirst now. "Cosmetic change" my ass.

 

Arantis

* *New Talent* Armored to the Teeth (Tier 1) - Increases your Strength by 1/2/3 for every 400 armor value you have.

Is this the new style to avoid leathers instead of actually fixing our plate?Feels a bit disrespectfull to be honest...