Chardonnay

I find that change useless and even detrimental. As you said, intervening the MT is not an option now. Also the threat reduction component is useless unless you have another prot warrior besides the MT. The MT cannot intervene a high aggro player to safely reduce his aggro. Just imagine a scenario when the MT intervenes a mage with 129% threat. The mage will be down to 116% threat and he will pull aggro from the boss, because he's over 110% in melee range. What a stupid situation, isn't it? All in all, this is not a well-tought-out change.

The only scenario when intervene threat reduction is remotely useful when a healer pulls aggro on multiple mobs. You intervene, taunt one back and maybe other mobs will turn back onto you. But seriously, with the new TC and shockwave losing mobs to healaggro should not ever happen.

The new talent changes are great, but I felt bad when I saw I can't spec for impale, cruelty and all important prot talents at once, I have to ditch some of them. This feels pretty awkward to me.

 

Graul

Where do you see this? If this is true, it's absolutely worthless compared to just going 51/10+

 

Chirality

Not true--see my edit on the page before. "Reduces chance to hit with damage-dealing abilities that require a weapon by 15%".


Edit: I didn't notice this before but:

Two-Handed Weapon Specialization: Increases the damage you deal with two-handed melee weapons by 2/4/6%.


About fucking time. I *always* thought that talent should have been 3 points.


Edit2: Also Toughness was nerfed down to 20% reduction in duration of Stun/Charm.

 

Arantis

Can someone confirm if devastate can be used with a 2hand now?

 

Sardaukar

Where are you reading this? The yellow reduction, at least for PvE, is obviously better - it makes a good amount of +hit gear itemization useful across the board as it increases the +hit of 100% of your damage instead of just white. If they really are changing it to white only, thats a nasty blow.

 

Grillkohle

The updated Wowhead talent calculator (8692) still states the one-handed weapon requirement in the Devastate tooltip. Besides, the talent in it's current state would be massively overpowered if it was allowed with two-handed weapons.

 

Frederic

Swing meters don't actually query the server for swing time, they parse the combat log and calculate weapon speed in order to output the swing progress information.

As far as the new build goes, Armored to the Teeth really should give hit rating instead of strength in order to make up for the TG penalty, otherwise we're still looking at hit heavy leather as being optimal, which isn't right.

 

Liar

Armored to the Teeth is an odd talent. Even for tanks with 21k Armor it's only 60 Str (after BoK/Vitality) compared to the 3% Crit from Cruelty you could get instead. Someone would have to do the math on what is more threat but it isn't the no-brainer ability Blizzard thinks it is ("It's in Tier 1, everyone can get it!"). But maybe that's only because they managed to re-bloat the Prot tree so you have to either dump Cruelty or Impale.

I agree that Shield Spec in it's current 5 point iteration is a horrible talent. Reduce it to 3 points or something.

Unexpected TankPoints error Clearly someone doesn't understand how EH works. That, or upgrading from T8 to T9 is optional in beating Arthas. Clearly.

 

Graul

Why is that? Wouldn't you still have to dump points into a non syngeristic one-handed weapons specialzation or other "filler" talents to even reach it? You also would not be able to dual wield and would just be using auto attack DPS + Devastate. Less auto attack damage, less WW damage (which is why you would not use it) and bigger Devastates (approximately 195% of the one-handed variant). You also most likely would not use many if any Heroic Strikes like this and this seems to be a change to keep those that do not have a good Fury set at least similar to those that do when not having to tank on raids, but are there as Protection.

I could see it being somewhat "strong" in PvP I guess, but it's no MS even if it's moderately spammable.

21k AC = 157 str or 380 AP buffed.

 

Lithose

Its actually 3 points of strength for every 400 armor, for a 21k HP tank thats 157 strength..After BoK/Vit its 182 (if they are additive.)...Even for someone with a two hander it ends up being 98ish strength in arena gear, 102 if you have strength of arms.

Thats pretty good synergy, for a 21k armor tank that adds 102 block value.

 

suicuique

Somehow you grossly miscalculated.
21K Armor would be more than 180 STR with BoK/Vitality applied.

Forgetting the different ranks perhaps?

 

Pitbuller

~180str vs ~66cri rating. Item budjet wise it's clearly superir. Talent scale also with ancestral healig/inspiration. Death knights get same talent but they have two points more on it.

Edit: argh.

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

 

suicuique

This I found really to be FUD by the Blues.
Not only does this "cosmetic change" make aplly the TG miss penalty to this ability, it also nullifies another advantage Bloodthirst had up till now.
Being disarmed.

 

Liar

Yeah, that was it. ><
In that case, it is indeed a no brainer which talent to pick. Still a bit sad that we can't get both Cruelty and that.

Unexpected TankPoints error Clearly someone doesn't understand how EH works. That, or upgrading from T8 to T9 is optional in beating Arthas. Clearly.

 

Obould

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...00000000000000

I will pick this for now, and see how it works out, i see Imp Reflect / Vigilance and Safeguard as useless now.

2 points you have to play around with, either ImpDiscipline / Last Stand / etc......

 

Liar

It's not a bad spec but you cut 1hs which is alot better than Cruelty. My modified version would be something like this: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...00000000000000

It sucks that I can't get Imp Spellreflect since 4% spell miss chance is really nice but you'd have to cut Cruelty completely then and get one more point from somewhere else. I am also reluctant to part with 1/3 TM because anything worth stance dancing for in the expansion is 15 rage or less (SR, TC, Disarm).

Unexpected TankPoints error Clearly someone doesn't understand how EH works. That, or upgrading from T8 to T9 is optional in beating Arthas. Clearly.

 

Lithose

"Dodge rating of XX adds XX% dodge.
before diminishing returns"

I can't get on beta now, can someone confirm this? Rumor from the general forums, but its a big one if true.(Damn work.)

I'm trying to get my head around what it means, does it mean you wouldn't dodge again for XX seconds? Or does it mean it required more dodge as you stack it to have the same effect, making avoidance scaling more like armor?

Edit: Apologies, this is being discussed in the combat rating thread, the tool tip is just a display of that mechanic.

 

Zegai

The thunderclap change is extremely clumsy. I mean, yeah, it had to be changed (it was generating a lot more threat Single-Target than revenge or devastate, and now it's the more or less the same), but it is a huge and unwarranted nerf to AoE threat.

If they intend to keep this, I'd suggest further buffs to either Damage Shield or Shockwave. Buffing DS however will lead to warrior AoE-threat being as much "AFK-aggro" as paladin-threat, and buffing Shockwave further will make it pretty much necessary. Another option might be a new baseline ability, possibly improved by the same talent as thunder clap, but that deals less damage than it (with no target cap). Useful in a AoE situation, not so much on other cases.

And the Armed to the Teeth talent -really- should be Tier 1 or Tier 2 arms, instead of fury. It'd probably be better for all specs that way.

@Lithose: it probably is the latter. The probably is, they stack gear with defense+dodge+parry and then make all the budget go to waste. It makes no sense. It also makes it so paladin's realiable blocking is a lot more valuable.

 

Liar

How come? I can't think of a spec that is not going to branch out into Fury. Arms/Fury is a given, Prot wants AotT and Cruelty. Fury is going to branch into Arms as well.

Unexpected TankPoints error Clearly someone doesn't understand how EH works. That, or upgrading from T8 to T9 is optional in beating Arthas. Clearly.

 

Zegai

Fury wants impale/deep wounds, needs 10 points to get it. Currently, only 3 of the first 10 are really useful.

Arms will get points anyway - I haven't really thought if the tree is bloated, tho. If it is that could be a problem.

As for prot, if I want impale/deep wounds I'll have to get questionable talents - 8 of the first 10 points are universally useful, however 3 aren't that much if rage is overflowing. TM isn't that good, some people like it, some don't. The same goes to unb. will. Imp Charge is situational - I honestly don't know if it's worth it, I'd probably rather take imp bloodrage if given the choice (more control for a bit less power).

For me, with the change (no imp tclap to fill the gap), I'll fell like wasting points to get impale+deep wounds.

 

Sabethaya

Which may have been the point; it's one way to keep a deep prot warrior's DPS from getting too close to a DPS warrior's.

 

Zegai

It still doesn't help Fury, having to waste 7 talent points to get those same two talents. It'd be better to tone devastate down a bit (70%, 75% maybe, increasing threat to compensate), if the problem really is prot.

As I said before, I don't think (and still don't) the problem lies with prot DPS, the problem is with the other two trees. I did some very crude testing yesterday, not trying to use any kind of rotation, and the best dps I could get with a lvl 70 char+a resto shaman dropping totens was 15/46 fury.

Pretty small difference, however, so I agree there.

The major issue for me is: I don't mind having to choose, choice is good: the problem is artificially increasing the amount of points for a talent with useless required talents for it.

EDIT: For example: the old talent which gave parry could also be a tier-2 arms talent. That would be good as well, for prot - a mildly useful talent. Wouldn't fix anything for fury though.

 

Bronwyn

As Fury, I think tactical mastery are not wasted points at all. They actually allow you to realistically offtank trash or bossadds. 3/3 HS is a given and parry increases your validity as offtank.

What I do have a huge problem with is the 5 point talent "Unending Fury" It is ridiculous to waste 5 points there when Titan's Grip will make sure that you won't have any rage problems, ever.

If precision were a 5 point talent and unending fury was redesigned to increase some useful stat (e.g. haste) I'd be happy with the fury tree.

 

Prinsesa

It means the first 100 points of Dodge Rating provide more dodge than the next 100 points.

There's a long discussion starting at around the 6th page of the Combat Ratings thread.

To provide a simple example, a level 70 Draenei Paladin was getting 0.0507% Dodge per 1 rating when she had 147 Dodge Rating equipped, but this had diminished to 0.0377% Dodge per 1 rating when she had 742 Dodge Rating equipped.

From what I've read, the following forms of avoidance are affected: Defense Rating (miss, dodge and parry), Dodge Rating, Parry Rating and Dodge from AGI. It's possible Block-from-Defense and Block Rating are also affected, but I haven't read anything saying it is.

This has actually been happening through all of beta - the new tooltip simply formalizes it as something intended.

"We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal"

- Ghostcrawler

 

Graul

The TM switch helps Arms (and Fury I guess...) for PvP yet wastes 3 points for a Protection build and also means that most Arms/Fury Warriors will not have Imp TC to off tank with unless they are a DW 1h Fury build with Incite. I don't know if TM is better or not for threat either because Sunder now scales with AP.