[WotLK] Warrior: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 10

LodeRunner · 11/26/08, 1:59 PM

Please, people. I get 6-9% of my damage from BloodSurge procs on boss fights. In addition to that, an instant Slam can proc Flurry and Deep Wounds. I have a 2 minute Death Wish and 1 spare point I placed in Enrage for that little 2%. Not every boss has extra damage thrown around. I cannot justify a 30% chance on damage received to do 8% more damage for 12 seconds.

On a fight like Patchwerk, Gluth, or Rasuvius I'll be able to have my extra 6-9% damage from Slams and be able to pop Death Wish twice or more while your Enrage translates into wasted talent points. How much uptime does Enrage actually get on today's boss encounters? Sure, Thaddius throws around a chain lightning but it only has a 30% chance to boost your damage, and you really shouldn't be standing in Sapphiron's Blizzard in the first place. Think about it, people. It's not like the fight starts and you suddenly have a guaranteed 10% extra damage the whole time.

CunningB · 11/26/08, 3:21 PM

Originally Posted by Toots Hepcat

...When you gem or 'chant for hit, you're sacrificing one source of potential damage (bigger hits) for another (more hits). As it turns out, you get more benefit from big hits then you lose from the misses. Yeah it's a shame to miss a 6k Bloodthirst, but it's even more of a shame to have a lot of pussy little bloodthirsts that hit all the time....

I realise the theory behind the STR better than HIT but how does it compare when you take into account rage generation on lesser geared stages of raiding? will hitting for slightly more offset the lost rage when you miss, meaning you can keep up the HS spam as much as possible?

Toots Hepcat · 11/26/08, 3:36 PM

Rage is generated from damage done; you should get more or less equivalent rage from bigger hits or more hits.

Note: I am only MOSTLY sure of this. I haven't been following warrior theory long enough to guarantee it.

2Face · 11/26/08, 5:52 PM

What is the general rotation for Arms Warriors now?
I've been Prot since I hit 80, and now that the guild tanks and offtanks are 80, I'm going to have to spec DPS, but I don't want to be the typical TG spec every other Warrior is today.

However, I haven't really kept up with Arms Warriors since the SD nerf. Can somebody fill me in with rotation and skill priorities as an Arms War?

morimacil · 11/26/08, 9:43 PM

Originally Posted by CunningB

I realise the theory behind the STR better than HIT but how does it compare when you take into account rage generation on lesser geared stages of raiding? will hitting for slightly more offset the lost rage when you miss, meaning you can keep up the HS spam as much as possible?

Hit and crit both provide better rage generation than AP. In fact, rage scales pretty bad with AP.
But rage is not an issue, even at lower gear lvls. I have 240 hit, and im not missing rage at all, overflowing with it most of the time, heroic striking a lot.
True, with low hit, you can sometimes have bad luck, and miss a few hits in a row, and thus get a bit rage starved. But if you only heroic strike when you have over 50 rage, and manage your bloodrage well, you should be able to keep up a rotation for 10 seconds even if you miss eavery hit in 10 seconds.

Tankietka · 11/27/08, 2:13 AM

Originally Posted by 2Face

Can somebody fill me in with rotation and skill priorities as an Arms War?

General agreement is to keep Rend up, use Overpower whenever it procs. After that there are sometimes disagreements :-), but I think the following covers it all:
- keep Bladestorm on cooldown
- if you have enough rage - keep MS on cooldown
- some use Execute whenever Sudden Death procs, others use it only if rage is below some point trying to optimize rage usage
- if everything is on cooldown/nothing procs Slam spam, which creates more opportunities for Sudden Death proc

Graul · 11/27/08, 9:20 AM

I'm just not completely convinced yet that stopping at the hit cap and then just going all Str/Crit when possible is the best way to go. The rotation now is basically the same it was in TBC except for the Slam, but it just feels like playing under water when trying to implement Heroic Strike due to the extreme spikiness of rage generation. I don't like having to constantly guess if I'm going to overcap rage if I don't HS or starve myself for a second or two when the Bloodthirst cooldown pops up thanks to a miss. Is it really worth only hitting HS when you're at 75+ rage now? How much damage is lost from all those main hand glances?

Right now I'm sitting at exactly 364 hit rating and it just doesn't seem like enough, but that's probably just because I'm so used to using HS every other to every MH attack in TBC raiding where we also had one less instant and different timinga on our cooldowns. Str/Crit and even Haste may always be better overall, but I'd like to see what it's like with 20% hit eventually while maintaining 35% - 40% unbuffed crit and an appropriate AP level.

Amyannirving · 11/27/08, 12:07 PM

I think that now with the shortened cooldown of bloodthirst, our rotation has become much tighter anyway, so that there's less emphasis on heroic striking than previously with fast 1handers. I also feel like I'm not heroic striking "enough" between BT/WWs, but I know that if I focus too much on it it will probably cause me to miss cooldowns.

LodeRunner · 11/27/08, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Amyannirving

I think that now with the shortened cooldown of bloodthirst, our rotation has become much tighter anyway, so that there's less emphasis on heroic striking than previously with fast 1handers. I also feel like I'm not heroic striking "enough" between BT/WWs, but I know that if I focus too much on it it will probably cause me to miss cooldowns.

Bloodthirst's cooldown may have shortened, but Whirlwind's went up to compensate so we are in the same rhythm as before. The only difference now is we don't have to keep Rampage up. Also I'm not sure what you mean by emphasis on Heroic Striking with fast 1 handers. Everyone used slow mainhands at 70 when we dual wielded one handers. Hell, we have a pretty damn easy rotation as it stands right now.
BT-->WW-->(dead time, use for bloodsurge procs or heroic throws)-->BT-->(even more dead time. Good spot to hit Death Wish/Trinket/Haste Pot/Recklessness)-->BT-->WW
The cycle is complete. Gloriously simple and highly effective.

Micah · 11/27/08, 1:37 PM

Does the "Dual Wield Specialization" talent in the fury tree count for whirlwind offhand attacks or is it strictly for white damage?

LodeRunner · 11/27/08, 1:48 PM

It definitely counts for Whirlwind.

Warlike · 11/27/08, 2:51 PM

Originally Posted by Boethius

Welcome to the Warrior Simple Questions thread. This thread is for all your simple questions which you expect to have simple answers and thus do not require their own thread.

Note that all forum rules still apply: we said simple questions, not stupid questions (which have no place on these forums). You're still expected to make a reasonable effort to find the answer yourself by searching and reading the threads and making use of spreadsheets and any other tools that may be available. If, however, you're fairly confident that your question is not easily answered with available information, but don't think it will generate sufficient discussion to require it's own thread, this is the place to ask.

Thanks for this thread, not sure if this is the best place, but I have this question.

How to get a macro to bloodthirst, and slam - only when bloodsurge is up, so it can be semi-spamable during our rotations, so slam can be used asap and not dealy our rest of inc keys to be pressed. (!)

/cast Bloodthirst
/cast Slam
/stopcasting #to stop a non bloodsurge to cast

doesnt work fairly well because it still delays our autos.

A castsequence with bt>slam and a 2-3 sec reset cd doesnt work because it will stuck to slam when bloodsurge didn't proc...

Not sure if you can macro to the game check when X buff is up and then allow Y skill to be used, but I had to ask for it! ><

Tyvm!

Originally Posted by Graul

I'm just not completely convinced yet that stopping at the hit cap and then just going all Str/Crit when possible is the best way to go. The rotation now is basically the same it was in TBC except for the Slam, but it just feels like playing under water when trying to implement Heroic Strike due to the extreme spikiness of rage generation. I don't like having to constantly guess if I'm going to overcap rage if I don't HS or starve myself for a second or two when the Bloodthirst cooldown pops up thanks to a miss. Is it really worth only hitting HS when you're at 75+ rage now? How much damage is lost from all those main hand glances?

Right now I'm sitting at exactly 364 hit rating and it just doesn't seem like enough, but that's probably just because I'm so used to using HS every other to every MH attack in TBC raiding where we also had one less instant and different timinga on our cooldowns. Str/Crit and even Haste may always be better overall, but I'd like to see what it's like with 20% hit eventually while maintaining 35% - 40% unbuffed crit and an appropriate AP level.

First, thanks for ur time on beta, if that was u;

Second, iv been having the same problem, but I kinda feel I am starting to "understand" my rage regen now. Mostly when I am at execute range - topic for a different discussion - and I try to get bloodthirsts going on, I feel I am having a small rage gen then a big, and I can keep a semi rotation based on Low rage execute > BT > Low rage execute > Low rage execute > BT... So my rage gen should be "ticking" something around low, low, high, low... If you get what I am trying to say.

Im at 367 hit, and using the hit food for raids, but In fights like Patchwerk, with flurry goind down, and such low damage overall from bloodsurge, I do feel I am needing way more crit..

Repeek · 11/27/08, 7:20 PM

Originally Posted by Warlike

Thanks for this thread, not sure if this is the best place, but I have this question.

How to get a macro to bloodthirst, and slam - only when bloodsurge is up, so it can be semi-spamable during our rotations, so slam can be used asap and not dealy our rest of inc keys to be pressed. (!)

/cast Bloodthirst
/cast Slam
/stopcasting #to stop a non bloodsurge to cast

doesnt work fairly well because it still delays our autos.

A castsequence with bt>slam and a 2-3 sec reset cd doesnt work because it will stuck to slam when bloodsurge didn't proc...

Not sure if you can macro to the game check when X buff is up and then allow Y skill to be used, but I had to ask for it! ><

Tyvm!

I've found this mod Power Auras Classic - Addons - Curse to be phenomenal with all of the warriors new "chance on hit/crit" procs (Sword/Board, Sudden Death, Taste for Blood, Bloodsurge). Basically whenever the move procs, you can have it display an icon in the middle of your screen to let you know.

LodeRunner · 11/27/08, 9:33 PM

Originally Posted by Warlike

Thanks for this thread, not sure if this is the best place, but I have this question.

How to get a macro to bloodthirst, and slam - only when bloodsurge is up, so it can be semi-spamable during our rotations, so slam can be used asap and not dealy our rest of inc keys to be pressed. (!)

You cannot do what you're asking with Macros.

morimacil · 11/27/08, 11:19 PM

What rotation are you guys using below 20%, with titans grip?
Im not sure what i should be using. I am quite sure that at 30 rage, bloodthirst will do more dmg then execute. I think that WW is also worth it compared to execute, but im not really sure.
And is execute the best way to spend your rage when you have too much of it? We all know that executes with a full rage bar do less dmg per rage. But is it really worth it to do a huge execute eating up all your rage over several heroic strikes?