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Old 01/18/10, 6:48 AM   #1501
Baervar
Von Kaiser
 
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Undead Warrior
 
Scarshield Legion (EU)
Prolly a bit early but does anyone have any clue how the 4pt10 trigger will be called and whether it will be able to be tracked with a mod such as power auras or not?

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Old 01/18/10, 9:00 AM   #1502
Rysidion
Von Kaiser
 
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Tauren Warrior
 
Jaedenar
Originally Posted by Baervar View Post
Prolly a bit early but does anyone have any clue how the 4pt10 trigger will be called and whether it will be able to be tracked with a mod such as power auras or not?
Pretty sure it will be just a second charge added on to Sudden Death and Bloodsurge. As such, it can be tracked using Power Auras by setting up an aura for Slam! and Sudden Death, and adding a charge (stack) indicator to an area nearby.

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Old 01/19/10, 7:21 AM   #1503
MrAlaska
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Dragonmaw
Originally Posted by Rysidion View Post
(as a side note, Snobolds are Cleavable now if anyone was unaware, yet still seem to be immune to Whirlwind).
Well I like that news! Thanks for the heads up.

I was cutting a couple gems for a ret pally in my guild, and he wanted a meta.

He commented on my crit rating meta as opposed to the agi one, saying only having to use one blue gem was worth the loss of a little crit. Honestly, the thought never even crossed my mind. How big of a deal is this change? I can imagine it is hard to tell without seeing my DPS gear, but I logged out in tank gear, and servers are now down.

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Old 01/19/10, 7:42 AM   #1504
Rurik
Von Kaiser
 
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Human Warrior
 
Arathor (EU)
For me agility is at about 0.57 SEP with crit at about 0.68 SEP or so.
Assuming you can activate 6 str with your second blue gem you get

21*0.57 +10 SEP for Agi meta =21.97 (replacing a 10str/15 stam gem with a 20 str gem gives the +10 SEP)
or
21*0.68 +6 SEP for Crit meta = 20.28

So if you can activate 6 str with the second blue the difference is really small. If you only can activate +4 the difference grows.

Those SEP values obviously don't apply to you, but it's easy enough to check out and I think the difference between crit and agi are the same for most (should be, since agi only gives crit and a tiny amount of armor).

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Old 01/19/10, 9:48 AM   #1505
jaofos
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Uther
Would it be any sort of advantage to a rotation in which Execute is only used with 30+ rage. (speaking Arms here)

This would inject more Slams into the rotation, and fewer Execute's, but harder hitting Executes?

I'm not sure how one would calculate the DPS gain / loss from this modified rotation.

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Old 01/19/10, 12:55 PM   #1506
Dalibor
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Thunderhorn
Fury Warrior questions about Improved Shouts

I am and have always been a prot warrior. The new dynamics of some bosses have forced me into the roll of dps warrior on some bosses in ICC. I dual specced and went fury with a cookie cutter talent tree. I am looking into the possibility of helping my raid more by going with improved shouts (Improved Demoralizing Shout and Commanding Presence). No other warriors in my guild are specced for improved shouts. I would like input about this, and I would love to see your talent tree if you are a fury warrior specced with improved shouts. Thank you.

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Old 01/19/10, 1:14 PM   #1507
Shha
King Hippo
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Scilla
Improved demo - its uniqueness (well bears have it too so it depends on your raid), is that its an aoe. So far there is no add fights where that could come handy in ICC - but well see about heroic modes (thinking of Deathwisper, Gunship - assuming those adds will actually hit HARD). In general though, a druid/paladin tank should provide it on single target - in lack of those, a ret pally in your raid should bite the bullet (it really doesnt cost them anything right now).

Improved commanding shout - this one is nice to have - how much it depends on your raid setup/performance. Still probably better then dps alternatives. Notable exception would be TOC, where improved commanding was somewhat detrimental on anub, and loads of cleave fights boosted the value on unbridled wrath a lot. Still something recommended for ICC.

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Old 01/19/10, 8:58 PM   #1508
sksk
Glass Joe
 
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Human Rogue
 
Dreadmaul
Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
For me agility is at about 0.57 SEP with crit at about 0.68 SEP or so.
Assuming you can activate 6 str with your second blue gem you get

21*0.57 +10 SEP for Agi meta =21.97 (replacing a 10str/15 stam gem with a 20 str gem gives the +10 SEP)
or
21*0.68 +6 SEP for Crit meta = 20.28

So if you can activate 6 str with the second blue the difference is really small. If you only can activate +4 the difference grows.

Those SEP values obviously don't apply to you, but it's easy enough to check out and I think the difference between crit and agi are the same for most (should be, since agi only gives crit and a tiny amount of armor).
With the 21Crit Rating Meta using 2 blue gems wouldn't be that much of an issue. Considering you can always use ArP/Stam gemsx2 which in my opinion would be better than using 1xOrange/Yellow gem or +10stat gem. It's just my opinion i hate yellow/orange gems for my war.

Last edited by sksk : 01/19/10 at 9:27 PM. Reason: Because not using capital letters destroys the english language.

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Old 01/20/10, 9:24 AM   #1509
Ramón
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Bloodscalp (EU)
Originally Posted by sksk View Post
With the 21Crit Rating Meta using 2 blue gems wouldn't be that much of an issue. Considering you can always use ArP/Stam gemsx2 which in my opinion would be better than using 1xOrange/Yellow gem or +10stat gem. It's just my opinion i hate yellow/orange gems for my war.
Well, when you are lacking Hit rating or expertise/hit rating, or the socket bonus is that good, to worth putting yellow/orange gem in it, like 6arp or 8str, the 21 Agility+critdmg bonus metagem becomes slighty better. I'd say its insignificant.

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Old 01/20/10, 11:15 AM   #1510
Ronninn
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warrior
 
Kael'thas
Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
For me agility is at about 0.57 SEP with crit at about 0.68 SEP or so.
Assuming you can activate 6 str with your second blue gem you get

21*0.57 +10 SEP for Agi meta =21.97 (replacing a 10str/15 stam gem with a 20 str gem gives the +10 SEP)
or
21*0.68 +6 SEP for Crit meta = 20.28

So if you can activate 6 str with the second blue the difference is really small. If you only can activate +4 the difference grows.

Those SEP values obviously don't apply to you, but it's easy enough to check out and I think the difference between crit and agi are the same for most (should be, since agi only gives crit and a tiny amount of armor).
It's also important to note that you can potentially activate that same +6 bonus with your yellow socket bonus that you activated in your blue socket, therefore negating the +6 SEP you have in your second equation. The only time you would use the socket bonus in one of those equations is if there was a difference in SEP between the second blue socket bonus and the yellow socket bonus.

That would then change your equations to :
21*0.57 +10 SEP for Agi meta (+/- Delta of bonus) =21.97 (replacing a 10str/15 stam gem with a 20 str gem gives the +10 SEP)
or
21*0.68 for Crit meta (+/- Delta of bonus) = 14.28

This indicates that the bonus you gain from removing the second blue gem and only using one nightmare tear is much more significant than you originally estimated.

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Old 01/20/10, 6:47 PM   #1511
Sordel
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Death Knight
 
Steamwheedle Cartel (EU)
1) Could someone explain to me why Improved Spell Reflection isn't a mandatory Prot tanking talent?

On paper this seems to be a perfect ability ... it provides passive avoidance for the tank, enables him/her to protect the party further by using the ability, and increases threat (by reflecting the spell) against caster mobs, who are in any case difficult to hold threat on with short-range aoe abilities such as Thunder Clap and Shockwave.

2) I know from the "read first, post later" thread that Devastate should not be spammed any more, but why does no one seem to advocate using the Sunder Armor glyph, which doubles its effective threat (on any group of enemies above one)?

A lot of people seem to advocate the Cleave glyph, which increases the threat of Cleave by 50% on groups above two, but the Sunder Armor would seem to be the largest TPS gain of any glyph for a prot warrior ..?

Last edited by Sordel : 01/21/10 at 5:33 AM.

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Old 01/21/10, 12:50 AM   #1512
Yolktheham
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Illidan
delete

Last edited by Yolktheham : 01/21/10 at 10:32 AM. Reason: found answer

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Old 01/21/10, 2:07 PM   #1513
Kaistlin
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Hyjal
Originally Posted by Sordel View Post
1) Could someone explain to me why Improved Spell Reflection isn't a mandatory Prot tanking talent?

On paper this seems to be a perfect ability ... it provides passive avoidance for the tank, enables him/her to protect the party further by using the ability, and increases threat (by reflecting the spell) against caster mobs, who are in any case difficult to hold threat on with short-range aoe abilities such as Thunder Clap and Shockwave.

2) I know from the "read first, post later" thread that Devastate should not be spammed any more, but why does no one seem to advocate using the Sunder Armor glyph, which doubles its effective threat (on any group of enemies above one)?

A lot of people seem to advocate the Cleave glyph, which increases the threat of Cleave by 50% on groups above two, but the Sunder Armor would seem to be the largest TPS gain of any glyph for a prot warrior ..?
1. The cost of two points, for such a situational talent, is why it's not considered mandatory. With how nerfed spell reflect is, and it's inability to ever reflect anything truly dangerous nowadays makes it a fun talent, but that's all. The only few situations I can see it useful for are in 5mans, and if you're struggling to hold threat in 5mans, it's not because you didn't spec into Imp Spell Reflect.

EDIT:As for your #2, I think you answer it yourself. We don't spam devastate as much as we spam cleave. One is on the GCD, the other isn't.

Last edited by Kaistlin : 01/21/10 at 2:49 PM.

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Old 01/22/10, 4:00 PM   #1514
Trelos
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warrior
 
Magtheridon (EU)
I got 2 questions.

1. If boss is under 20% HP, is it better to stop using Slam and HS and use only WW>BT>EX, or use EX only when i got free GCD?

2. Is Enrage talent proc on dmg like Anub arak's leech swarm, Twin val'kyr or festergut?

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Old 01/22/10, 7:57 PM   #1515
MystEU
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Deathwing
Originally Posted by Trelos View Post
I got 2 questions.

1. If boss is under 20% HP, is it better to stop using Slam and HS and use only WW>BT>EX, or use EX only when i got free GCD?

2. Is Enrage talent proc on dmg like Anub arak's leech swarm, Twin val'kyr or festergut?
Never cut Heroic Strike from your rotation. I typically keep up my normal cycle sub-20% while only favoring Execute on a free GCD. Mileage may vary based on your talents, glyphs, and the particular fight though. As for Enrage, there are a number of fights it can be useful on, but don't let those be your decision-maker on taking that talent. It's not often worth it and most of the time you won't get anything from it unless you are running back and forth to respec in between every other encounter. :P

Originally Posted by Doxster View Post
As I am pretty shit at using Landsoul's spreadsheet I am mostly using maxdps.com, I don't really know how useful it is compared to Landoul's but meh...

I'm finding myself having a hard time deciding what weapons to go for. I am way too poor to get Shadow's Edge in a long long time so I'm going to try to get Bryntroll for MH, but what about OH? I got a normal Justicebringer as MH now that would be placed in OH as I work on getting the one I actually want, but wich one would that be? Heroic Justicebringer?

Thanks
I'd definitely try to practice a little more with Landsoul's sheet over using MaxDPS. Bryntroll is a great main hand but not something you should ever think of putting on your off-hand. Heroic Justicebringer is good all-around but Cryptmaker off of the Blood Princes in 25-man is a good upgrade in general when you consider the amount of hit it allows you to drop from your gear in favor of other stats. Rawr or Landsoul's Spreadsheet would still be best to make those gearing decisions later on when you start having access to more of those pieces.

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