According to my napkin math, Execute will do more damage than Bloodthirst at 30 rage. This is especially true if you have the [Glyph of Execution]. If you have 5000 AP, a Bloodthirst will do AP/2 or 2500 damage on an unarmored mob. Of course you'll have Unending Fury which would bump it to 2750.

Execute does 20% of AP + 1456 damage + 38 damage per extra rage. This means at 30 rage and the same 5000 AP, when you can use execute, it should hit for 1000 + 1456 + 570 = 3026. The glyph adds another 380 so that comes to 3406 damage for a 30 rage execute.

So yeah, I've just been mashing Execute. It's been working great!

I'm surprised you say that, I just armoried you and our gear is really not that far different. I've had a bit more luck and picked up an [Armageddon] 25 naxx, but even when I was using [Titansteel Destroyer] in my mh and the ring of blood axe as my offhand for the first raiding week, I found myself using heroic at least every other MH swing.

For the most part I couldn't be happier with the current rotation, there seems to be just enough to do even if another WW cooldown like attack is necessary for a really good solid rotation.

I will say that this is predicated on having an Enhancement shaman around, they were huge before for us, and I really miss them when I don't have one ( I guess frost spec DK as well, we don't have a DK who tanks as of yet ). On a random side note, when I don't have the windfury haste buff I feel as though I'm lagging for the first 30-45 seconds of whatever I'm doing because of it (so long in between attacks compared to with windfury).

Edit: Of course you post and I hadn't refreshed the page to see it. Something I've been doing at least during recklessness ( sub 20% ) is firing 1 execute, letting 2 white hits happens, execute, same, execute. Seems to work far far better and then I go back to prioritizing WW Execute Sub 60 rage and BT above that.

What's the preferred tanking weapon enchant?

Yea power auras is simple awesome, I've been using it for over an year already, and when well configured it is a must have addon. Right now I have it setup to show a huge red bloodsurge icon near my warrior, but still, your reaction time is needed to not start a gcd right before your next skill in line, delaying it. ><

The new Potency for threat. Mongoose I suppose if you need more avoidance.

I'll have to try that. I normally just Reck at the start to get DW going and if the fight is not longer than around 5 minutes and 10 seconds or so you can only use it once. Also, how are you using Death Wish on any fights shorter than 6 minutes and 30 seconds? Would it be better to use it like this:

1) Start of the fight
2) ~2:00 mark
3) save
4) ~30% - 25% depending on how fast the life is moving + Potion of speed.

Or would you use it if it was up after the second use, the mob is only at 45% - 55% but Bloodlust was just used? I also have the benefit of gaining an additional 355 AP every Death Wish (racial) and another 475 from the pocketwatch, so I'm just not sure if it's better to save the last for Executes or just blow it if BL pops before then.

I just did some testing, and found that Heroic Throw resets your swing timer, so use it at the opportune moment. I haven't heard anyone mention this anywhere, so just letting it be known.

meta gem enchant for dps:

the upgraded relentless earthsiege diamond?

or switch to the skyflare diamond with the crit rating instead of the agility?

I have been reading this thread for a while and still have seen no stats proving arms worse then fury or likewise for PVE content. Is there any theorycrafting proving one is better then the other yet on a boss like Patchwerk?

I see the expertise cap is at 6.5% not factoring in talents, but does the expertise cap change if you are in front of the target or behind it? Or is the cap always the same no matter where you stand?

In my experience with the raiding content so far in Wrath I have noticed that I am getting significantly higher DPS in 25 man raids for some reason. I was wondering if something is different in the raid dungeons that may make this higher or not. My DPS on 25 man Patchwerk was ~4400(Pre-Execute), and my DPS on 10 man Patchwerk was only ~3300(Arms both times). As far as I know we had the exact same buffs in the two instances, is this a coincidence or is anyone else experiencing this?

Point for point, how well does armor penetration and haste compare to attack power, strength or critical rating?

Thanks.

One thing that really surprised me is the discussion - whats better BT or execute, while almost completely ignoring WW.

WW is your highest damage move out there, not BT.

With my typical raid stats - AP ~6300 in raid (assuming all buffs etc), and weapons : Jawbone (~200 dps 3.6 MH), Collosal Cleaver (3.4 185 dps OH).

Execute = 3100 base + 38xrage
15 rage = 3100x1.06x1.02 = ~3350
30 rage = ~4000 dmg
100 rage = ~6800 dmg

BT = 3800 dmg.


WW = [(6300/14*3.4)*1.625 [AP part] + 200x3.6 + 185x3.4*0.62.5]*1.1*1.2*1.02*1.06 = 5140 dmg

And thats for 25 rage, with 2 Deep Wound/Flurry chances etc.

I just sent this as a PM, but may as well post it here;

I double checked to make sure before replying, but why would you ever blow one of the Recklessness charges on an Execute when one WW crits with *both* hands but only eats up one charge? Not only is it more damage by default, but that's two applications of Deep Wounds isn't it, even if the off hand is kind of screwed up right now.

Also, just assuming you have WF down and Flurry is almost always up, your average swing speed (assume the average of 3.4 weapons) before a potion of speed or trinket is 2.3. The potion drops it down to 2.0, lower obviously if you have haste on any of your gear. I spike up to ~6800 AP (higher if the Mirror procs) if I saved my cooldowns for 20%. If nothing but Execute is up, I'm obviously going to use that, but what happens when all three are up? *This also assumes that BL is not up for the Execute phase.

Whirlwind (counting both hands and pre mitigation) hits for 5082. That's 3388 DPS for the GCD and you also have two chances for a crit instead of just one. That's also 203 DPR

Bloodthirst hits for 3964. That's 2642 DPS and 132 DPR

Slam hits for 3251. That's 2167 DPS and 216 DPR

Execute (glyphed and assuming it's used every GCD)
@ 15 rage = 2258 DPS and 225 DPR
@ 25 rage = 2527 DPS and 151 DPR
@ 30 rage = 2661 DPS and 133 DPR

Going by this, a 30 rage Execute just barely beats a Bloodthirst at this level of AP. The difference though is that Bloodthirst does not eat ALL of the excess rage. It looks like Execute becomes worse DPR at 31 rage even if the DPS is barely better.

As long as you are able to do something every single GCD the priority should be WW > Execute, but what happens when your weapons are not reliably swinging at 1.5 but closer to 2.0? Execute starts getting worse and worse in comparison. Factoring the AP loss and auto attack DPS, it seems as though you would still get around 120 more DPS from using something like 2x [The Interrogator] at 20%.

Either that, or a Rotation that is obviously WW > BT > Execute. It truly sucks blowing 60+ rage and not being able to do something for a full 0.5 - 1.0 seconds after the GCD is up. For 70 rage you get an average 2762 DPS for 3 GCD. If you blew all of that on one Execute and had to wait 1.0 seconds that's only 2241 DPS. Of course, you also have to consider the possibility of rage going to waste because you spiked past 100, but what are the chances of that happening often if you're trying to perform at least one action every GCD?

*I'm not sure these posts belong in this thread though.

I honestly believe in following a rotation in execute phase. BT>WW >Execute>(2.0 sec gap due to GCD so usually no rage problem)>BT>Execute>Execute (2.0 sec gap again). Try to time bloodrage for rage starvations.

For recklessness at least the best rotation seems to be : Execute 1st (time beofre white swings), Bloodthirst (crits>Slam proc), WW (double crit), Slam , BT (since you are at high rage usually after doing WW/Slam), Execute.

Question remains if you should use SLAM, but i believe it still pays off to do it.