Has anyone done the maths on deep wounds with a slow weapon as an alternative to taking cruelty with a fast weapon? Given the itemisation on weapons like Broken Promise (2.6 speed tanking sword), is this quietly being acknowledged by blizzard?
What to do when your racials screw with Expertise? Do you ignore the fact that one hand (MH) might be over by 1% - 1.25% while the OH is right at the cap, or do you lower the OH for more crit/AP or a better trinket?
What to do when your racials screw with Expertise? Do you ignore the fact that one hand (MH) might be over by 1% - 1.25% while the OH is right at the cap, or do you lower the OH for more crit/AP or a better trinket?
I haven't actually done the maths (yes, a good start to the sentence I know...) but it seems like Expertise wouldn't be worth very much when it's only affecting your offhand. If your MH is capped, that covers MH white swings and most yellow hits (apart from WW offhand), which is the vast majority of your damage. At this point, any further expertise will be worth less than hit over the yellow cap, so it'll pretty much be the worst stat to go for.
it is right that Haste is even with TG and Slow 2 handed Weapons the worst Stat to have as a Fury Warrior ? I Wonder , becouse should haste not be a good state becouse of the slow Weapons a TG Warrior wield ?
A few other Stats Questins.
Is this Right for a TG Warrior?
Hit > All until Yellow Hit cap. 328 for me.
Then Str > Hit > Exp ( until Cap ) > Crit > Agi > APR > Haste
or Str > Exp (until Cap ) >Crit > hit > Agi > Apr > Haste
Titan's Grip means 14% miss. 3% you get from Precision talent (3/3) so you'll need to gather 11% chance to hit. That is 372 hitrating at level 80. I'm at 378 myself and hoovering over the hitrating it says 11.xx% chance to hit so guess that's right.
Titan's Grip means 14% miss. 3% you get from Precision talent (3/3) so you'll need to gather 11% chance to hit. That is 372 hitrating at level 80. I'm at 378 myself and hoovering over the hitrating it says 11.xx% chance to hit so guess that's right.
Minor correction there, the hit rating required for TG is 361 given that you specced 3/3 Precision.
Off Topic: How do you guys feel TG performs compared to other classes? I've got the odd Naxx epic and I'm miles ahead on the dps meter compared to the rest of the guild. Kinda worried about possible nerfs now that might break TG as a whole.
According to maxdps.com, STR is best to gem even if you low on hit. Also ye its seems 361 hitrating is the magic number, after that hit get worse then haste.
I have an Inscriber and I can tell you that leveling right now is HORRIBLY expensive. You need to get a GOOD way into using Northrend herbs before you gain the "Major Inscription Research" which has the huge cool down. On my server there are only a small group of people who have done this. Like the minor glyphs, just wait a week or two and the market will be so flooded that people will be giving them away for basically mat costs.
If you have a guild inscriber and you can herb, do them a favor and go get a few stacks to take some of the load off.
It's not as prohibitive as you say, it's just tricky to get the pigments for Snowfall Ink. 8 stacks of herbs was all it took for my Scribe to go from 355-385 (Major Inscription Research Level). The problem is those 8 stacks of herbs only produced enough Snowfall Ink for four days worth of research. Snowfall Ink is going to be the limiting factor on how fast people can flesh out their supply of glyphs. Depending on how committed people are on your server, that could take more than just a week or two.
Originally Posted by Bettarg
Hello,
it is right that Haste is even with TG and Slow 2 handed Weapons the worst Stat to have as a Fury Warrior ? I Wonder , becouse should haste not be a good state becouse of the slow Weapons a TG Warrior wield ?
A few other Stats Questins.
Is this Right for a TG Warrior?
Hit > All until Yellow Hit cap. 328 for me.
Then Str > Hit > Exp ( until Cap ) > Crit > Agi > APR > Haste
or Str > Exp (until Cap ) >Crit > hit > Agi > Apr > Haste
Sorry for me bas English
THans a lot.
Hit and Expertise are equally good. 1% miss reduction costs the same in itemization as 1% dodge reduction. The only difference is that the Hit cap is much higher, so it's generally better to focus on that first and let expertise fall in your lap.
Haste is generally considered a bad stat for Warriors because it primarily affects only white DPS, whereas Hit and Expertise affect everything, and Crit and Armor Penetration affect everything but bleeds (with the exception of the Crit/Deep Wounds relationship). Haste's major benefit is that is smooths over rage generation, but little else.
What I lack in intelligence I make up for in verbosity.
Off Topic: How do you guys feel TG performs compared to other classes? I've got the odd Naxx epic and I'm miles ahead on the dps meter compared to the rest of the guild. Kinda worried about possible nerfs now that might break TG as a whole.
I have only a belt upgrade from Naxx so far and a bunch of heroic blues, still wielding cruddy weapons. Fully buffed I do 3100-3200 on Patchwerk, while mages, shadow priests and hunters are topping the list in the 3.9-4.3k range. I imagine that will change as my gear goes up, especially weapons, but I'm curious what kind of damage you're doing to put you ahead of everyone else.
Last edited by Grayson Carlyle : 11/24/08 at 5:35 PM.
Reason: spelling
I haven only a belt upgrade from Naxx so far and a bunch of heroic blues, still wielding cruddy weapons. Fully buffed I do 3100-3200 on Patchwerk, while mages, shadow priests and hunters are topping the list in the 3.9-4.3k range. I imagine that will change as my gear goes up, especially weapons, but I'm curious what kind of damage you're doing to put you ahead of everyone else.
I'm currently Dual wield MS spec (Axe 5/5 and Mace 5/5... switching out of Axe and going Swords 5/5 and Mace 5/5 soon). I am usually on top of the DPS. When I was doing an instance at level 78 with a lvl 80 TG warrior in group that had a bunch of naxx epics already I was surprised to see that I out DPS'ed him by a ton. I just haven't seen the proof that TG is any good. I was doing 2400-2600 dps while he was sitting at around 1800 max.
I haven only a belt upgrade from Naxx so far and a bunch of heroic blues, still wielding cruddy weapons. Fully buffed I do 3100-3200 on Patchwerk, while mages, shadow priests and hunters are topping the list in the 3.9-4.3k range. I imagine that will change as my gear goes up, especially weapons, but I'm curious what kind of damage you're doing to put you ahead of everyone else.
You can check this WWS Report, given that I got 2x Hysteria I still find it a bit over the top. And correct me if I'm wrong but deep wounds still needs to get fixed for certain specials and offhand crits.
Titan Grip is exceeding my expectations. Of course for gimmick fights like Loatheb, Thaddius, and Malygos a Warrior will always excel, pretty much regardless of spec due to rage mechanics.
I would post Patchwerk from our last clear but I pulled aggro and died like an idiot so there's no good benchmark comparison. I can tell you the only real contenders for damage have been a Hunter, two DKs, and one of our Mages. The two Rogues, as skilled as they are, could not put up the numbers despite their best efforts. I imagine Deep Wounds will get re-examined and tweaked as it is an absolutely incredible low-tier 3 point talent.
Has anyone done the maths on deep wounds with a slow weapon as an alternative to taking cruelty with a fast weapon? Given the itemisation on weapons like Broken Promise (2.6 speed tanking sword), is this quietly being acknowledged by blizzard?
This is something I'm wondering about as well; given all the reports about how well deep wounds is performing DPS-wise, I would think it would potentially be pretty valuable for threat as well given the right weapon.
Titan Grip is exceeding my expectations. Of course for gimmick fights like Loatheb, Thaddius, and Malygos a Warrior will always excel, pretty much regardless of spec due to rage mechanics.
I would post Patchwerk from our last clear but I pulled aggro and died like an idiot so there's no good benchmark comparison. I can tell you the only real contenders for damage have been a Hunter, two DKs, and one of our Mages. The two Rogues, as skilled as they are, could not put up the numbers despite their best efforts. I imagine Deep Wounds will get re-examined and tweaked as it is an absolutely incredible low-tier 3 point talent.
I'd like to echo this, granted on you're always going to be on high certain fights, but I almost always have a comfortable lead on every fight, especially once I use Deathwish. I think as long as our equivalent classes can do the same dps in 2-3 weeks ( once relative gear luck, gear level smooths out ) then I would hope they wouldn't change much.
What does concern me is if there is a +dmg gimmick in a lot of fights in the coming content, that would seem to be a huge problem for deep wounds as our scaling there is through the roof. Doing 40% more DPS than the second place DPS on Thaddius is extreme uneven for that fight.
Last edited by Morsexy : 11/24/08 at 8:55 PM.
Reason: idiotic word mistakes.
Hi there, I recently switched to a warrior main before the xpac came out and ejoyed my exploits as an arms warrior. But now that I've reached 80 and have attained my soft hit cap for Titan's Grip I am currently enjoying a fury spec 18/53/0. I know there was more talk about execute with the Arms spec due to the Sudden Death procs that would let you use execute at any time during the fight, I also read and became aware of when it was most efficient to actually execute <50 rage type scenarios. My question is for fury execute range, what is the best skill rotation. Personally, I am leaning towards a high damage/relatively low rage cost "Whirlwind > Execute" unless you do happen to get a spike in rage then Whirlwind > BT > Execute. Any thoughts on this?
I've put some more thought into this question I raised earlier (still no responses) and I think it depends on how much rage one has. In a raid, if the build up of rage was faster than the usage of WW/BT before Execute then you might be capped on rage (doubtful but maybe you have Heroism/Bloodlust during this phase of the fight and are getting a ton of rage). If you are at any point wasting rage by doing a WW> BT > Execute then you should probably just straight up use execute?
Anyhow, my next question is regarding weapon speed. From the sounds of it, the only benefit we get from weapon speed is to our Whirlwind damage, since our autoattacks and BT do not really take this into account, correct? Reason I ask is because I noticed that Rets and DKs seem to value speed a lot more than us. I just wanted to clarify. There isn't an extreme where a 3.8 speed weapon with less DPS beats a 3.4 speed weapon with more DPS for example?
Haste is generally considered a bad stat for Warriors because it primarily affects only white DPS, whereas Hit and Expertise affect everything, and Crit and Armor Penetration affect everything but bleeds (with the exception of the Crit/Deep Wounds relationship). Haste's major benefit is that is smooths over rage generation, but little else.
Well haste always was pretty bad, true, but now i think it needs to be reconsidered. It doesnt affect only white dps.
It affects your white dps, but also heroic strike dps, because you have more rage and can heroic strike more often, and it also affects your deep wounds dps, as more crits means more stacks, means bigger ticks.
White dps + Heroic strike dps + Deep wounds dps
Thats around 70% of your dps.
This is the simple questions/answers thread. This isn't the "state the obvious" thread. We all know Heroic Strike is modified by haste. The fact remains that BT/Slam/WW are not. You could make the argument that it contributes to Deep Wounds, but so do Str and Crit. Str and Crit also benefit the aforementioned instant specials that haste does not benefit. This begs the question, "Why use a stat that only improves some abilities when I can just as easily use a stat that improves all of my abilities?"
Because haste requires less rating then crit for 1%. Additionally your gear haste % is usually way lower then crit % - meaning that increasing haste by 1% has more of an impact then crit. Im not saying haste is good, mostly answering your question LodeRunner. At some gear level haste will catch up to crit im sure. Right now however its lower.
Right now from my spreadsheets, as well as landsouls, and multiple sims stat priority seems to be:
1st) Str - yes EVEN if you are NOT hit or expertise capped, gemming str is best for TG. I find it a bit hard to believe - but when 5 different math models seem to give me that result... I see no other way but to accept it.
2nd) Hit/Expertise until cap. Both around 90% of STR value - at naxx gear level.
3rd) Crit - definitely above other non STR stats
4th) Agility/haste/ArP - depending on gear i use the value of those 3 switches. Most common is Agility>ArP>Haste
5th) Hit - its WAY lower after the cap then other ones.
Reason for the low hit/expertise/haste position:
Those are the stats that impact rage generation the most. Thats why they were high pre-WLK. Right now in raiding environment I *ALREADY* am capped on rage most of the time - using heroic on every swing etc. And thats beggining of the expansion. In short, raiding warriors now have infinite rage. Therefore hit only affects now offhand dps - since rage is enough to use everything else on cd, and heroics take place of MH swings. Haste is higher , but again - the rage generation boost from haste is unimportant. Same for expertise.
Has anyone seen a Glyph of Blocking, or Glyph of Last Stand? I have yet to see one, or hear about one on my server (herbs are stupid pricey though). Just making sure it actually exists in game.
I know people who can make each, so yes it definitely does. The RNG will eat away at certain servers for a very short period in the end.
1st) Str - yes EVEN if you are NOT hit or expertise capped, gemming str is best for TG. I find it a bit hard to believe - but when 5 different math models seem to give me that result... I see no other way but to accept it.
...
Right now in raiding environment I *ALREADY* am capped on rage most of the time - using heroic on every swing etc. And thats beggining of the expansion. In short, raiding warriors now have infinite rage.
I found that interesting and I've started regemming\gearing for str as my priority.
The fascinating part for me was that in my experience playing a Slam warrior in that period in between the WF nerf and up until the no slam method became prevalent seemed to be the best experience for how you handle TG. I find myself wanting to heroic when I'm at 10-25 rage and BT is on CD, but it seems best to give it a swing. Of course having 30 rage + basically means if you don't heroic you will be at 85+ rage.
At what level of gear is the rage generation going to be at the huge, needs immediate balance, stage if we're not there already?
What to do when your racials screw with Expertise? Do you ignore the fact that one hand (MH) might be over by 1% - 1.25% while the OH is right at the cap, or do you lower the OH for more crit/AP or a better trinket?
What happens is that expertise has a two-part dropoff, like hit on a DW build. Under the "soft cap" (MH cap), expertise has full value. Above the MH cap but below the OH cap, expertise has a reduced value. At a ballpark, whatever % of your overall damage is your whitehand damage, that percent of it's pre-soft-cap value is how much it's worth between caps. Use this value when evaluating your gear. It's not a cap-or-don't-cap issue, it just might shuffle which gear is best-in-slot or best-upgrade-in-slot at any given point.
What is the best choice for threat generation, 3/3 Improved Heroic Strike or 3/3 Armored to the Teeth? I'd wager a guess that Imp. Heroic Strike is better at first but at some certain armor value Armored to the Teeth will outscale it? Am I correct in that assumption or is Imp. Heroic Strike "just better"? If I'm correct, whereabouts would that armor threshold value be? We can also assume that Imp. Heroic Strike also gets benefit from 3/3 Incite.
all the tanks i'm seeing lately are speccing 4/8/the rest
with the general consensus being that AttT is outdoing a less rage HS, besides with proper glyph u can HS for free.
I was also curious about this STR before all (even hit cap) while it might be better mathematically, i just cant see missing what could have been a 6k bloodthirst. but i did some gem swapping (still hit capped/not expertise capped) and ran with a warrior that was expertise capped with less AP and i actually out dps'd him.
also have any of you looked into [Darkmoon card: greatness] one of these is 90str static and a 300str proc with a 33% uptime, definitely worth looking into imo. ( i tried to link the item, but apparently wowhead doesn't have it yet)
The wotlk version of rend does incrreaed damage (+35%) if the target is above 75% hp.
How exactly does this work? Options I see:
1) Bonus is calculated at the time of application -
If you rend your target at 80% health, each tick of that rend will do 35% additional damage, even if the target subsequently drops below 75% hp.
2) Bonus is calculated on a per-tick basis -
Each time rend ticks, there is a check to see if the target is above 75% hp. Each tick does or does not get a +35% damage bonus accordingly
If it is the former, then would it make sense to apply your first rend early in the boss fight, and then refresh it before it falls off (ideally directly after the second-to-last tick) for the rest of the fight?
I know this is easily tested but...I'm at work! =(
So anyone know off the top of their heads?
11/24/08, 6:42 AM
