Now im kinda at a stump here, with SLAM procs and WW/BT relation to it. It seems after this rotation, BT,WW it is ok to push back the next BT because it won't lower the amount of BTs a warrior can get in on a fight. So BT,WW (delay) BT, WW. What i want to know is if there are any other times in a fury dps rotation where it is ok to push back a BT or WW on GCD by using slam.

You're below the expertise cap of 26.
You have more than enough hit @ 378, 164 is the minimum for Fury. If you lose a little hit while moving gear around, you'll be fine.
Don't worry about gemming for the socket bonus & don't gem for crit. Gem for Strength (after you hit 26 expertise.)
And, try the spreadsheet.

Highly confused about recent posts in the Fury thread.

I always thought that you should only use Bloodsurge procs on a free GCD which is only ever after a Bloodthirst that followed a Whirlwind. Is this correct or isn't it?

How big of a difference, if any, does weapon speed really make on when you should be using slam?

i use my bs procs when it will end within .5 seconds of WW or BT refreshing. weapons speed doesnt really play much into when i use slam since the proc is instant it doesnt do much to your swing timer. in most cases im spamming hs about 80% of the time and the procs come up so often i couldnt use them all if i wanted to. i just wonder if i should prioritize WW or BT, either way im getting about 3.5k+ dps on bosses and about 5-6k on trash.

I’m an ARMS Warrior at my wit’s end.

I know, I know “how dare he ask this.” I’ve read these forums and done extensive research and testing, I’ve even looked at the holy spreadsheet and I still can't get over 3.25-3.5k on a target dummy unbuffed. It’s my understanding that I need to be over 4k on a dummy to be pushing out the 5-6k that’s expected of me with full raid buffs.

I’ve tried the following rotations:

1.)Execute (when proc’d) > Overpower (when proc’d) > Mortal Strike // dump rage w/ Slam and HS and keep Bladestorm and Rend on CD

2.)Spam Slam unless Execute or OP procs keep Rend and Bladestorm on CD and MS only right before and after BS and to dump rage to get below ~60.

Both are pretty effective (in my experience) at getting 3-4K DPS in most ULD fights and over 5 on some. However, I’m told that with my gear I should be closer to 6k.

Any advice will be most appreciated, anything else, not so much … thanks guys.

Could it be possible, that Hitrating has no effect on Demoralizing Shout?
Today on the Vezax pull I wanted to apply it, but it missed 2 times in a row.
And I'm Hit capped, 7,04% over gear and 1% from Heroic Presence.

I also made a little Test, where I applied Demoralizing Shout 1000 times on a Heroic Training Dummy and missed 73 of them.

Did anybody else notice something in this way?

Don't sign your posts and don't use ellipses.

Anyway, were you looking at your melee hit rating or your spell hit rating?

Since 3.0 both melee hit and spell hit use the same hit rating. Your paper-doll values for both are the same. Precision, however, only affects melee hit.

EDIT:
While the two use the same rating, you are correct, Haphnet, that they convert to different reduced chances to miss (unlike crit or haste) and have different caps. I should have phrased my response in that context, which is more to the original point.

The conversion for Melee hit and Spell hit are not the same. A given amount of hit rating will give you different percentages of Spell hit and Melee hit.

If you're doing same dps in stand-and-nuke bosses and dolls, something is horribly wrong. Are you running around too much, not actually dpsing the boss? Big lag, too low FPS?

Those rotations, they are basically the same, but on the second you skip MS for slam? I can't see how you would do more dmg that way.

I'm sure it's been covered multiple times in this thread or the arms thread, but you should rethink your priorities. Chainproccing sudden death isn't very propable, so no reason to prioritize it too high. Same with OP, you got 6 seconds until it can proc again. I'd do something like *OP proc* -> MS -> Slam -> sudden death proc -> OP -> execute-> MS and so on, always keep MS on cd. Also be very careful with cleave/HS, they can get you rage-starved quick. Spamming execute <20% is a dps loss usually as well, at least without BL/speed potion or such, not sure about going for 2x quick 1h:s for execute phase though.

Well, yes, your right Haphnet.
I have 7,19% spell miss, which would coincide with the result of the little test.
Is there something else known about this?

I also made a few Taunt's on the Heroic Training Dummy.
Only 100.
Due to the high frequency, the Dummy was immune to 18, but I also missed 3 of them.

So it is known, that some abilities are affected by spellhit. That was just what wanted to here. Thanks for that!

I know that this test is not meaningful and that wasn't my intention.
I only wanted to get the info, whether it can still miss or not.

Hi,

I'm looking for some advice on Warriors. I used to play one in BC and now I play a rogue. I'm an officer in our guild and we're working on hard modes so we're trying to get as much dps as possible. Since I'm the only officer who's played a Fury warrior before I took on the challenge of trying to get our fury warrior's dps up.

My question is extremely basic and I wanted the confirmation of the community on which talent spec is optimal currently.

To me, it looks like through my research that 19/52/0 is optimal.

Currently, this Fury warrior doesn't have any points in improved rend, no anger management, and has a point in improved cleave.

He also complains that he's rage capped often. Even with critical strikes on Heroic Strike only effectively costing him 2 rage, he should be able to keep heroic strike on constant cooldown. I've watched his rage bar and it does seem capped often. I also noticed he only has 21 total heroic strikes which leads me to believe he's just not dumping rage often enough.

Here is a link to his WWS on all the bosses we did on Wednesday this last raiding week. Any input you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated. World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Here is the standard WWS as well: Wow Web Stats

Armory Link: The World of Warcraft Armory

Please help me get his damage up. I know with his gear he is capable of much more.

Thanks.

The 19/52 spec you linked above is basically ok, but could use a few tweaks. Improved Rend is useless for Fury, except maybe at the start of the fight. It costs too much in terms of rage and GCDs to stance dance to reapply Rend. However, the only other talent to put those two points is 2/5 Deflection, so they don't really matter.

Improved Execute is also unnecessary, since it is currently more DPS to maintain a normal rotation below 20%. I personally spend those two points to get to 3/5 Unbridled Wrath and 1/2 Improved Berserker Rage. I haven't found Improved Cleave to be particularly useful on boss fights. Even on Kologarn I cannot hit all three targets with it. Anyway, if he's going to spec into it he might as well max it out. Cleave is useful on trash packs, but on bosses the synergy between Heroic Strike (more Bloodsurge procs), Slam and the 2pc T8 bonus is more than enough reason to never substitute a HS with a Cleave.

Your warrior could also afford to switch out some non-Bold Scarlet Rubies. He should only have the two non-red gems required to activate his meta-gem. Ideally these should be Sovereign Twilight Opals (or maybe an Enchanted Tear), since he isn't a Jewelcrafter. He can use Landsoul's spreadsheet to figure out when he needs to switch from gemming strength to ArP.

I didn't take much of a look at the WWS log, except to agree that he isn't using HS even close to enough. In most of my fights HS is among the top three damaging abilities.

To Vahanian:
He doesn't seem to use HS at all: 0,9% HS damage in the entire raid is like nothing. It should be among his top abilities, over 15 to 25% damage in every bossfight, except perhaps General Vezax.

As long as he is in shouting duties, I think this will be the best spec:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Further, he has socketed some hit and crit gems he should replace with strength ones. He doesn't seem to use the spreadsheet, I would advice him to do so. He should perhaps unlearn Mining and learn a new secondary profession like Jewelcrafting, that would boost his DPS further.

However, the most important thing is, that he should use HS every time he has excess rage, so he wasts at least rage as possible due to overcapping the rage bar. This is why his DPS is so low, because HS is one of the most important abilities of a fury warrior. It prevents a warrior from missing with the main hand hit, it prevents glancings and it increases the hit by converting it into a special strike with +495 damage, which on top benefits from Impale.

He should be heroic striking far more. For me heroic strike is usually at the top of damage contribution. I do get fairly aggressive with HS use though and sometimes find myself out of rage on consecutive misses. HS cost is actually rather complicated since it also costs the rage from the white hit it consumes. If he's getting rage capped anger management isn't going to help him.

He's consistently hitting a lot more WWs than BTs, they're usually about even for me - on WWS WW counts the same for mainhand and off so with a single target there's 2 WWs every 8 seconds as opposed to single BT every 4 so they should be roughly the same.

I never use rend, certainly not as a part of fury rotation - you can't rend in zerker stance. Some people put it up right off the pull, I guess I could do that but I don't, if for no better reason than not wanting to waste a keybind on it. Wouldn't think about putting talent points there.

Improved charge is a curious choice, but I suppose it doesn't really matter between that and iron will. His luxury points in fury are 2 in UW, 1 in cleave, 2 for execute. For the first three I put in booming voice and heroic fury; execute spam is a DPS loss over standard rotation for his gear, he can move those points (imp intercept for me) as well as the glyph (this he can switch to cleave.) These are all luxury choices it doesn't really matter for raid damage. He really should get booming voice since he also has commanding presence.

He really should get the darkmoon card it's a huge upgrade to mirror, and the prices have been coming down, at least on my server.

tanking expertise cap. I read that a level 83 mob has a 14% chance to parry from wowwikki.com. Can anyone support this claim?

@yumepenguin: He's also way over the style-hitcap. Especially his gloves and rings can be upgraded with ones without hit - 8% with precision or 5% without are all he needs.

Does Glyph of Cleave split the +225 innate threat evenly between the 3 targets or does the third target receive only the cleave damage?

I have 2 questions to determine if a warrior I know is using best practices or flat out wrong, as I suspect.

First, is Arms or Fury better at the moment? I saw the discussion just above this, which makes me think Fury. This warrior has this spec. Is that the best dps warrior spec atm?

Second, from my understanding he should be gemming straight strength, but he has it in his head that Armor Pen is boss and he gems mostly for it. Am I just ignorant to warriors, or is he stupid? I know Armor Pen is better since 3.1, but it seems to me its still just an "icing on the cake" sort of stat.

I feel arms or fury will come down to personal preference. Both put up comparable numbers at comparable gear from what I've seen. Arp vs str is a question for the spreadsheet since it depends on gear. This guy put 5 points in UW as his last 5 points in fury and didn't take AM. Seat of pants speaking 5 points in UW was about as much rage as 1 point in AM so that's fairly odd. He could've taken commanding presence to be more useful, rage isn't really the limiting factor on arms. For the most part if arms put 15 points into fury they want at least another 2 for imp execute.

My single target dps as Arms is leaps and bounds better than as Fury. From what I hear, Fury gets better than Arms once you have BiS gear. I'm a long way before I get Ulduar BiS gear.

ArP is better for Arms warriors because Battle Stance grants a 10% ArP and the more ArP you have the better it gets for you. As such, Arms warriors gems for ArP and Fury warriors gems for strength.