Hi, I've downloaded Landsouls spreadsheet but ain't getting it to work (I have Excel 2007, no clue if you need some package update? Getting errors on lot of stuff).
Did you read the first tab Intro? It tells you some setting adjustments to make such as turning on macros.
Here's a post I saved before the forums reset. None of this work is mine, all credit to the original poster (whoever it was) etc.:
At level 80, against a level 83 mob:
Defense cap: 689 defense rating to be uncrittable
Single-wielding hit cap without Precision: 296 hit rating to remove the 9% miss rate.
Single-wielding hit cap with Precision: 197 hit rating to remove the 6% miss rate.
*Note that these two above caps will apply to single-wielding Prot Warriors, two-handed-wielding Arms Warriors, and the yellow hit cap of non-Titan's-Grip Fury Warriors
Dual-wielding white hit cap without Precision: 919 hit rating to remove the 28% miss rate.
Dual-wielding white hit cap with 3/3 Precision: 820 hit rating to remove the 25% miss rate.
Titan's Grip yellow hit cap without Precision: 460 hit rating to remove the 14% miss rate.
Titan's Grip yellow hit cap with Precision: 361 hit rating to remove the 11% miss rate.
EDIT: For expertise caps, assuming the cap is still a 6.5% dodge rate:
Without Weapon Mastery: 214 expertise rating to remove the 6.5% dodge rate (equal to 26 expertise skill)
With 2/2 Weapon Mastery: 148 expertise rating to remove the 4.5% dodge rate (equal to 18 expertise skill)
Is this still the current consensus on caps?
If not it would be nice if we could keep a current list at the top of one of these stickies maybe with note that this is good as of patch 3.x
Despite what some might say it's not always easy to sort through the all the discussion to figure out whats the most current info. At least you all would have a easy spot to point people to when they continue to ask.
With the recent execute change, would it be a bad idea to drop the 2 points from Imp. Execute and move them to something more raid friendly, like Imp. Demo. Shout? It seems like a good idea, especially since my guild is now working on 10 man hard modes.
How about also moving the point from Anger Management to Imp. Demo. for a big 24% AP reduction?
You could do, but with the changes to the vindication talent, most likely the imp demo shout will be applied by another player, unless of course you don't group with paladins often
Is this still the current consensus on caps?
If not it would be nice if we could keep a current list at the top of one of these stickies maybe with note that this is good as of patch 3.x
Despite what some might say it's not always easy to sort through the all the discussion to figure out whats the most current info. At least you all would have a easy spot to point people to when they continue to ask.
Expertise and defense caps are correct, otherwise that post is completely out of date.
The current caps are not hard to find if you bother to look a bit further (e.g.Hit - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft or even wow warrior forums), although I agree that a simple summarizing post in the general class mechanics forum could be useful. Another idea would be to create a thinktank article for it. Please go ahead and do that if you think it's needed.
Is Slam usable for fury warriors without a bloodsurge proc? No.
I apologize - I tried to estimate the dps lost/gained from using slam without a bloodsurge proc for a fury warrior and left out flurry. Without flurry and with slow weapons, it was pretty good. I'm an idiot. Under best case scenarios for weapon speeds <= 3.6, fury warrior slamming without bloodsurge is a tiny, tiny dps increase.
Last edited by yeagar : 08/26/09 at 3:01 PM.
Reason: Flurry is a big correction.
Where does this change puts swords in Arms PvE dps weapon type chart? (currently Axe > Mace >Sword)
Still there?
Depends if they're not improving the proc chance only but also removing the 6 seconds CD: that's what is really annoying about Sword Spec nowadays.
And still, Poleaxe is simply too good to be replaced so easly, if you take into account that the new BiS weapon in Coliseum is an Axe (there's a Sword, but itemized in a different way)
I know ive read it somewhere but scowered through these threads and cannot find it again.
I currently have Earthshaper and Aesirs Edge. Having the 2x weapons of the same speed is syncing white attacks and rage gen is screwed. How can i unsync this effectively so they alternatively attack and smooth out rage gen?
I know ive read it somewhere but scowered through these threads and cannot find it again.
I currently have Earthshaper and Aesirs Edge. Having the 2x wepaons of the same speed is syncing white attacks and rage gen is screwed. How can i unsync this effectively so they alternatively attack and smooth out rage gen?
Check out page 77 of the In-Depth Fury DPS Discussion. I suggest reading the entire page, because there is some discussion about using the practice of desynchronizing at all, but here is your answer.
Originally Posted by Saizul
Replace your normal BT and HT bindings with these macros, or else append the start and stp attack commands to your current macros.
/startattack
/cast Bloodthirst
/stopattack
/cast Heroic Throw
You just dont actually start your attacks until you are within melee range of your target, and when you drop out of melee range, you toggle off your attacks again.
It really isn't hard to manage if you get in the habit of trying to toss a heroic throw whenever you are out of range anyway, and just mash BT when you are back in the hitbox.
Been trying to look up if I should tinker Hyperspeed Accelerators or Hand-Mounted Pyro Rocket over Crusher as fury, only found a reply to an arms warrior.
I mean, 10% haste sounds very nice with 1 minute cooldown compared to 44 attack power, and 2k rocket every 1 minute doesn't sound that bad either. Just not sure which one inputs more DPS.
Running with 3.40 weapons at the moment, haven't spreadsheeted in a while so I'm more or less clueless about fury in Ulduar and Trial of the Crusader.
So I've done my best to follow the conventional wisdom on armor pen. Recently my gear allowed for me to easily hit 100% armor pen by regemming for it, so I did it. After going to a few raids gemmed for ArP, I've found that my DPS seems to be less than when I was gemmed for Strength. Landsoul's sheet also shows that my DPS would by higher gemming for Strength rather than ArP. This seems to go against the conventional thinking I've read. What gives? Should I just give up on ArP and regem strength?
My rotation is to stack rend every 21 secs, MS on cooldown, BS on CD, OP and Execute on procs. What in the hell am I doing wrong?
I have been looking through this thread trying to see if people answered a few questions but didn't see any, sorry if these are repeat questions. (All of these questions are about arms.)
What is the exact number of armor pen rating to get 90% (capped with battle stance)
After looking at landsouls spreadsheet. he states best in slot trinkets not being the armor pen runestone anymore. Does that mean we gem armor pen completely to try and gain 100% armor pen including battle stance.
Is it even possible to gain the armor pen cap without trinket procs and also achieve the hit/expertise caps with the new tier of gear?
Got some help via a PM, apparently I was too far over the cap, so I dropped some arm pen gems to insure I was only 100% ArP when grim toll goes off. Thanks.
How is Engineering for(primarily) Fury DPS now in 3.2? I am currently using Ench/JC and while they are nice statwise I am getting quite bored with them. Engi also looks amazingly fun and useful with boosts, AOE bombs/grenades, rockets, parachutes, bots, teleporters and all that jazz. While I would really like to drop JC because the entire goddamn server has it I know enchanting is strictly worse due to kings/imp zerk stance. Argh. There's also the uncertainty of what may or may not come with cataclysm, since apparently AP is being done away with on gear so enchanting might get agi and str enchants instead, making it equal to JC.
Clearly drop Enchanting. Cataclysm is far away atm. and Jewelcrafting saves you a lot of time when you need new gems. Also, its 14+14+14 Str (34 compared to 20 Str gems) vs. 2x 40 AP which means, 42 Str vs. 80 AP, or 84 stats VS. 80 AP and with Kings/imp. Berserker 10,2 AP more which translates into 94,2 AP vs. 80 AP.
I decided to do my own research instead of coming crawling to you for a handout. The results are interesting.
Basically the pure dps benefits of engineering are as follows:
340 haste for 10 seconds every 1 minute(57 haste on an infinite fight, -44 AP due to not using enchant)
24 crit boot enchant replacing 32 ap(+24 crit, -32 ap)
23 agi on cloak instead of 22(+1 agi)
1150-1500 bombs every minute((1150+1500*1.2)/(2*60)=24.58 dps over an infinite fight, *1.2 to compensate for crits and curse of elements etc
So, I used the last updated version of Landsoul's spreadsheet with the default fury gear(top-end ulduar) plugged in and ran the numbers.
Just the stats+haste: 57.1451 dps increase
plus bombs spammed on cooldown: 81.7284 dps
Comparing this to the DPS equivalencies of strength and AP the stats+haste is worth:
1 str=1.8864 dps
1 ap=0.7145 dps(note that this is much less than str/2 due to stuff like imp zerk and kings)
57.1451 dps=79.97 ap=30.29 str
79.97 AP. That is scarily close to the standard 80 ap. Extraordinarily close, really. This means that engineering IS on par with the other professions, even without bombs. However, we can also see that it falls behind JC/BS(42/40 str) due to strength scaling. Let's add bombs:
81.72 dps=114.39 ap=43.33 strength
Hey, look at that. It edges out even JC. With bombs, engineering actually becomes the BEST dps profession for a single target. The real value is actually a little higher because the cooldowns are used immediately(normally), meaning that for a 2.5 minute fight the haste value is actually 340*30/150=68 haste, and it can be synced with other stuff like oooh say Death Wish.
Also, the bombs are obviously great for aoe on adds - fights like thorim, kologarn, freya, mimiron, icecrown yogg illusion etc really let them shine.
For fury warriors, engineering is at least as good as any "standard" profession(enchanting, inscription, lw etc) even without using bombs, and when bombs are tossed into the mix(progression) its value rises to roughly that of BS or JC counting the inflated value of strength. Additionally, the bombs add extra AOE power, the frag belt gives a mildly useful aoe stun and the rocket boots can be enormously useful for maximizing time on target. Furthermore, every 5m a bomb can be swapped for a more powerful(and expensive) global thermal sapper charge for even more damage.
The profession also provides a crapload of other utility such as raidwide reagents+ammo+repair+selling+engi-only bank service via Jeeves, a Dalaran auction house, mote gatherer, scavenging(hello xt/flame lev), northrend teleporter, parachute, portable mailbox, extra healing from healing pot injectors, awesome mind control hat enchant for pvp fun and a ton of vanity stuff like pets, mounts, player shrinking etc.
The main difference comes down to Passive DPS Boost vs Active DPS Boost. Would you rather gain the same benefits without having to pay attention to extra cd's and wasting GCD's for bombs vs Having the gem bonus/socket bonuses. Also theres the RNG from Bomb DMG/Procs that can make your gain from Eng vary positively and negatively
Just a quick question. I'm finally getting around to leveling my warrior. I assume that jewelcrafting or blacksmithing would be the best professions for the simple fact that you can choose to get extra armor pen (or str for that matter) from them, as opposed to the attack power that most professions grant?
When you have [Grim Toll] and enough armor pen on your gear, that will make a 100% armor pen when the trinket procs is it good to stack more armor pen then or go for strength. On gems / food etc.
This has probably been answered before, but I can't seem to find a relative post using the search function. With Armored to the Teeth giving 3 ap per 108 armor, at what point does berserking pass up massacre? I did some napkin math and got about 15k armor with 30% uptime.
08/21/09, 2:56 AM
