[WotLK] Warrior: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 54

Tankietka · 04/07/09, 9:28 AM

Originally Posted by Liar

They fixed double dipping as far as I know. 2h weapon spec and all Enrages will not affect Deep Wounds anymore (they only increase your weapon damage to calculate DW off of). Trauma should work on DW and no clue about BF,

Indeed, I missed that Starfox was asking only about DoT part buffs.

Firynth · 04/07/09, 9:34 AM

Originally Posted by Citygrl23

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Perhaps one was close enough to get struck by the cleave but as fas as i could see at the time they were taken down and off the stage and we tank Grand Widow at the back of the stage.

As for the 3 points in Improved Cleave...the 8 extra rage isnt a big deal in a 25 man raid and look what it did for me on that one particular fight. Id rather have the 3 points in it than have points in something as useless as Commanding Presence ( for raiding spec )

And also, on Thaddius, the most ive ever done is about 4.8. This past week, using the improved cleave, i did 6.8.

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FYI, you're forgetting that heroic strike procs Bloodsurge, which is a dps boost itself. Also, if heroic strike happens to crit and you have the heroic strike glyph, you're looking at an 18 rage difference between the abilities. Being able to use heroic strike again immediately after it crits is yet another dps boost. With cleave, you're balancing rage use a lot more between bt, ww, slam procs, and using cleave. Imp cleave has its time and place for trash or bosses with lots of adds at certain points (Freya I believe in Ulduar), but for single target bosses, you're ignoring bloodsurge procs completely for an ability that does like... 30 more damage than heroic strikes will do.

Tyvi · 04/07/09, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Kampfschaf

I do not know if imp SR gives you a chance to resist a spell completely (make it miss you) or only adds 4% chance to partially resist it after fire resistance check. Anyone give a hint (or better: proof) please.

Imp SR works as a full resist on spells. I am not sure if it works on dragon breaths either but I have seen Malygos miss his breath on me more than once. I don't remember if I was imp SR spec then though so it could either have been caused by the talent or his normal miss chance for spells (if he has a miss chance; if not, then it'd be a proof of imp SR working on breaths).

Shha · 04/07/09, 11:28 AM

I think ever since they removed the 1% unavoidable miss on spells, bosses cant miss you (not sure if they could before). They have base 5% spell miss chance, and they are 3 lvls above you.

strotyl · 04/07/09, 5:37 PM

What is Best In Slot two hander for Arms warriors post 3.1?

Enova · 04/07/09, 11:33 PM

Voldrethar, Dark Blade of Oblivion, at least as far as ilevel goes, and not discounting the possibility of more weapons being discovered later on.

Worldcarver is also very solid if you fancy the axe spec over swords.

dysent · 04/08/09, 12:04 AM

alright, back with same question, now armed with WWS. Can someone please tell me wth I'm doing wrong that causes my deepwounds damage to be so significantly lower than my guildmate?

Wow Web Stats Thaddius Deep Wounds
Dysent Ratio - Deep wounds does 185 dmg per 1000 non-DW dmg
Damo Ratio - Deep wounds does 221 dmg per 1000 non-DW dmg

Wow Web Stats Loatheb Deep Wounds
Dysent Ratio - Deep wounds does 312 dmg per 1000 non-DW dmg
Damo Ratio - Deep wounds does 389 dmg per 1000 non-DW dmg

In both cases, he's just plain getting lots more damage from deep wounds than me for those two fights specifically. Most other fights we're back and forth for whose DW ticks higher. Something that I do differently on those two fights causes my deep wounds damage to be lower week-on-week. Note that I have higher crit rates on Loatheb and our crit rates on Thaddius were relatively similar (his a bit higher).

Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong or what he's doing right?

[edit: it's been this way basically every week for months, despite both of us occasionally getting upgrades. Our weapons have been same the whole time tho', him BoH/Jawbone, me BoH/Armageddon]

Symphonia · 04/08/09, 12:21 AM

It's RNG, at least on Thaddius: Damo only had 15.5% of his white attacks parried/missed/glanced. While Dysent had 3.1% Heroic Strike, 19.8% white attacks, 10.4% Whirlwinds, and 4% Slams parried/missed/glanced.

Ichabod313 · 04/08/09, 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by dysent

alright, back with same question, now armed with WWS. Can someone please tell me wth I'm doing wrong that causes my deepwounds damage to be so significantly lower than my guildmate?

Wow Web Stats Thaddius Deep Wounds
Dysent Ratio - Deep wounds does 185 dmg per 1000 non-DW dmg
Damo Ratio - Deep wounds does 221 dmg per 1000 non-DW dmg

Wow Web Stats Loatheb Deep Wounds
Dysent Ratio - Deep wounds does 312 dmg per 1000 non-DW dmg
Damo Ratio - Deep wounds does 389 dmg per 1000 non-DW dmg

In both cases, he's just plain getting lots more damage from deep wounds than me for those two fights specifically. Most other fights we're back and forth for whose DW ticks higher. Something that I do differently on those two fights causes my deep wounds damage to be lower week-on-week. Note that I have higher crit rates on Loatheb and our crit rates on Thaddius were relatively similar (his a bit higher).

Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong or what he's doing right?

[edit: it's been this way basically every week for months, despite both of us occasionally getting upgrades. Our weapons have been same the whole time tho', him BoH/Jawbone, me BoH/Armageddon]

It could be the fact that he has Jawbone, a slower weapon with a higher avg dmg, causing a higher DW damage, that could account for the difference in damage? So, i think his DW will do more damage, but yours will be up more often, since you swing faster and crit more often per minute.

The fact that his attk power is higher overall might have an effect too, if even only about 60 points higher.

Edit: 500 more damage per tic of DW is somewhat confusing...maybe its because he stacks str and you stack attack, maybe he is getting a larger effect from his gear since it gets the benefit of kings? (I suggest you start to stack str on your gear, since 3.1 is changing attk bonuses for warriors...just something to plan for)

Goatsey · 04/08/09, 5:48 AM

Perhaps because of simple things.

1) He has Jawbone so his deepwounds generated by his offhand will be higher, thats just natural.

2) You aren't hit capped, thats going to impact on your deep wounds uptime on loatheb and thaddius due to this actually eating into your chance to crit. He, on the otherhand has 8% hit, a healthy margin of hit which means more whites and more offhand deepwound ticks are being generated and less crit % being eaten into on thaddius/loatheb (thaddius explained below)

3) On thaddius he has absurdly high expertise, whether the boss is facing you or away rng will say u get that 50% of the time, so 50% of the time you have around 9% chance to be parried, thats getting on to 30% chance for your whites to be misses, that is going to cripple your deep wounds damage. Whereas he has 37 expertise rating (9.25% expertise) He now not only has 4% less chance to miss on his whites but also 5% chance less to be parried on thaddius, that is certainly going to bump up his deep wounds damage proportion of thaddius with quicker refreshes, (the miss isn't eating into his white crit chance unlike yours if I am right in assuming that would be the case whenever thaddius is in front of you with a 30% parry/miss chance a 25% glance and that eats into your max white crit chance)

The fact is probably because he has higher hit/expertise than you (you aren't capped on either whereas he is by a healthy margin) means that on those 2 specific fights his crit % isn't as eaten into as yours is, so you have a lower crit % so less deep wounds generated despite your faster offhand, coupled with the fact he has a Jawbone, generating higher offhand deep wounds, this will make up your difference.

dysent · 04/08/09, 9:50 AM

Originally Posted by Goatsey

Perhaps because of simple things.

1) He has Jawbone so his deepwounds generated by his offhand will be higher, thats just natural.
2) You aren't hit capped,
3) On thaddius he has absurdly high expertise

I actually switched gear after the raid - I was capped at raid - just got my frosted adroits and my nobles deck. For raid, was using grim toll and zeliek's gauntlets, so was slightly above instead of slightly below. (I'm still sorting out the new gear to cap myself)
I'll look at Loatheb, because Thaddius is confused by the expertise issue.
On Loatheb, he's logged 12% white miss and I've got 8% white miss. No misses with other attacks. I have a higher crit% overall on all attacks. I don't think the gear difference explains that.

Here's a more detailed loatheb breakdown from turning WWS %'s into #'s:

Dys	#total	hit#	crit#	miss#
HS	100	4	96
BT	30	3	27
White	108	32	67	9
WW	50	3	47
Slam	20	3	17
exec	1	0	1
Overall	309	45	255	9

Damo	#total	hit#	crit#	miss#
HS	73	11	62
White	145	32	96	17
WW	39	7	33
BT	22	2	20
Slam	17	2	15
Exec	13	1	12
Overall	310	55	238	17

Basically, I'm critting more, missing less, and getting much less deep wounds dmg while doing more overall damage. Would using a jawbone result in a massive (20%?!) difference in deep wounds? There's just not that many offhand attacks in a fight. (I had 104 OH attacks, Damo had a bit less than 109).

The more I look at this, the more convinced I am that deep wounds is behaving buggy related to same speed wpns.
More crits, more overall attacks landed = less DW dmg, despite hitting harder per landed attack (10% higher non-DW dmg)

Tosh · 04/08/09, 10:13 AM

Hi,

From what i read until BIS gear is obtained from 3.1, then arms could be the way to go? having not played on the PTR I dont know for sure but that seems to be the general idea. I was just wondering how true this was? is there any problems with aggro and also rage with only having one weapon?

Thanks
Tosh

Goatsey · 04/08/09, 11:07 AM

well okay about the gearing, but that probably will inflate his thaddius deep wounds. In the loatheb scenario his extra hit will mean slightly less inroads to his crit %, albeit not by much obviously and as you pointed out you "out-rnged" him with less misses on the fight.

Looking at the combat log I would have to say its not the fact that 3.6 speed weapon is causing him to have the massive deep wounds but the fact that his weapons aren't syncced. Since deep wounds works by delaying the tick when you get a massive succession of crits and then forcing big deep wounds ticks, I believe that him having his weapons unsyncced due to a 3.4/3.6 speed is causing deep wound ticks to just have a higher chance of being pushed back enough (with the successive number of crits) into 2 parts of the rotation, whereas with syncced weapons there is always, at best, 2.25 seconds (ish) between crits between bloodthirsts and whirlwinds and no slam procs. With unsyncced weapons this gap can be smaller at different parts of the fight, on other fights where this would lower your flurry uptime slightly you don't notice it but on loatheb where you are critting like crazy, obviously. The difference of non-syncced weapons will be much more extreme resulting in more delayed deep wound ticks=bigger ticks more often, and therefore more damage done via deep wounds. That would be my best guess looking at the combat log.

callion · 04/08/09, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Bluefish

I put the caps into a table and expanded it to try and head off "Do math for me!" questions. Numbers were pulled from the Combat Ratings thread. Anybody see any mistakes?

These numbers are vs. level 83 (boss) mobs. The common ones are arrowed for visibility.

Hit Caps
  Single 2H or 1H WHITE...........164 (5% hit) - ?
    w/Draenei.....................132 (4% hit) - ?
    w/Precision...................99  (3% hit) - ?
    w/Draen + Prec................66  (2% hit) - ?
->Single 2H or 1H YELLOW..........296 (9% hit)
    w/Draenei.....................263 (8% hit)
    w/Precision...................197 (6% hit)
    w/Draen + Prec................164 (5% hit)

  Dual Wield WHITE................919 (28% hit)
    w/Draenei.....................886 (27% hit)
    w/Precision...................820 (25% hit)
    w/Draenei + Prec..............788 (24% hit)
  Titan's Grip YELLOW.............460 (14% hit)
    w/Draenei.....................427 (13% hit)
->  w/Precision...................361 (11% hit)
    w/Draen + Prec................328 (10% hit)

Does anyone have any updated numbers for this table? Or is it just simpler to remove 1% from all caps since it was proven that the hit cap was 1% lower than blizzard said? This is on the first page so it might be a bit misleading for new readers (like myself).

Faziel · 04/08/09, 4:43 PM

Just joined an end game guild on Sunday and I'm raiding with a kick a$$ fury warrior. We're usually neck and neck in most boss fights, however I have dual Betrayers and he's using Betrayer MH and Death's Bite OH. Now the problem I'm having is on some fights (thaddius, razuvious, loatheb) I would miss up to 4-5% more on my melee hits than he did. His hit rating is at 180 and mine is at 224, there was no shaman in either of our groups. Is there any explanation for this?

Also, I generally noticed he gets more ticks out of his deep wounds than I do, I can't explain this either. Am I doing something wrong?

Another thing I noticed is that his heroic strike crits 50% of the time, where as my heroic strike crits for around 44.6. Again, I can't explain this. We both pretty much have top end gear aside from me having the Betrayer and him having Death's Bite in OH's. I should be doing more dps than him all things being equal.

You end game guys, what am I missing? Am I neglecting something in my rotation? Am I spamming something too much and not allowing my deep wounds to tick enough? Please help!

P.S. - here is the WWS from last night's run...my character is Faziel Wow Web Stats