My guess is, due to the increased stress of Heroic Mode vs Normal mode, you are letting Rend fall off for an extended period and probably getting sloppy on your priorities otherwise.
The priority list itself seems fine. Rend is most important. Mortal Strike will do more damage than Execute, so you should always keep it on CD. Same with Bladestorm (obviously waiting a small bit if you have a trinket proc coming up very soon, as can be told by ForteXorcist). Rend every 24 seconds to maximize the number of Overpowers you can squeeze in (usually this means getting that last Overpower from the final rend tick, then using an ability or two before rending again. Sometimes, however, the tick count gets messed up due to latency and you should rend right away if the last tick doesn't proc OP).
If you could trade a lot of that extra expertise for ARP, then that would definitely help as well. If you have rage problems, you should probably drop HS for a while.
(not really relevant anymore since the post this is pertaining to was deleted.)
As a melee DPS looking at Icehowl it's heavily RNG based depending on where he decides to charge in relative to where you got knocked back. On normal the gap between him charging 180 degrees from you and targetting you directly isnt that large since you have the sprint buff you can use to move to his charge position relative to the wall.
On heroic however since you have no buff if he decides to charge the opposite end of the arena thats a good 8 seconds of 100% extra damage DPS time lost due to movement to him. In general Beasts isnt that great of a melee fight and on heroic the gap between ranged and melee widens and comes down to how close Icehowl will charge near you.
I am assuming that your DPS drop is only on Icehowl however and the rest of the fight your numbers are more consistant to what they are on normal.
At what skill does Defense start reaching Diminishing Returns?
I realize after 540/542 Defense you've reached that point of uncrittable, but its still pointed decently due to affecting blk/dodge/parry.
Its been a long time since I've taken my warrior seriously considering I shelved him the moment I hit 80..collected some naxx 25 tanking gear here and there..and then one day was asked to replace one of the other tanks permanately.
Sorry if its posted elsewhere, I couldn't seem to find it when searching.
I have a rather simple question about tanking as a warrior:
Is there any reason why to still use Thunderfury instead of a level 232 tanking weapon?
Our tank keeps on insisting that it's proc is totally awesome for tanking several mobs and still superior even for tanking single mobs, but from my experience as a 0/13/58 warlock is that threat is such a massive issue that I am treat-capped most of the time now, even with smart use of soulshatter and I managed to accidentally pull aggro on TotC10 Anub after ~3 minutes into the fight.
Of course I look at my threat-meter and try to keep my threat below 130% of the tanks threat, but my question is not about threat management.
So is it just my experience or is it very likely that his threat is much lower now since he started to use his Thunderfury?
No, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for a tank to be using Thunderfury for current end-game progression content. At all. The proc does NOT even come close making up for the stats (between mitigation, threat, and even weapon damage) of even a midlevel quest green in Northrend.
(Except for maybe style points, but that's another matter entirely.)
Defense reaches "diminishing returns" gradually - or rather, the Dodge and Parry portions of the stat continue to contribute less pure numeric value as they in crease, same as with going for pure Dodge or pure Parry. However, Defense pushes these stats to their diminishing returns much slower than going for either pure stat, plus you get Miss + Block chance with Defense.
Is there any reason why to still use Thunderfury instead of a level 232 tanking weapon?
Our tank keeps on insisting that it's proc is totally awesome for tanking several mobs and still superior even for tanking single mobs [...]
The proc has had all it's additional threat removed a long time ago (Patch 2.0.10). The direct damage component of the proc is the only thing that generates threat (since it's damage), but the debuffs that jump to the other targets all are 0 threat if you look at the values in omen.
So, in short, the argument to use Thunderfury for it's superior threat is false. The argument to use it for it's superior looks is a different story though.
Ok im a warrior tank that is stacking avoidance (AV). but ive noticed in Trials of the Crusader that none of the tank gear has shield block. This is odd to me, Does this mean that in future are there going to be no block stat and we shouldnt worry about it anymore. Also that leads to my next question, if there is no Block stat and to get gearscore up, should i not worry about my block anymore and start working on becoming a straight stamina tank. Ive always believed its better to mitigate and dodge and parry any damage then get hit really hard and have the heals to heal them more. Can someone tell me where i should go from here?
Assume a warrior has 100% passive armor penetration from gear/talents/stance, which I believe is additive; Correct me if I'm wrong. Also he is attacking a boss added in WotLK with standard armor value which is 13083 after doing some reading..
Question: Would said warrior have true 100% arpen against the boss and not need sunder/FF or will the "up to" on the tooltip take into effect because the boss has too much armor, and thus render sunder and FF effective? Also would adding sunder and FF yield 100% arpen or would there still be armor that exists on the boss and removing through debuffs and ignoring through self-buffs?
Numbers would be awesome if someone could contribute those
Also figured I'd try to help this guy out.
Originally Posted by Zeagan
Ok im a warrior tank that is stacking avoidance (AV). but ive noticed in Trials of the Crusader that none of the tank gear has shield block. This is odd to me, Does this mean that in future are there going to be no block stat and we shouldnt worry about it anymore. Also that leads to my next question, if there is no Block stat and to get gearscore up, should i not worry about my block anymore and start working on becoming a straight stamina tank. Ive always believed its better to mitigate and dodge and parry any damage then get hit really hard and have the heals to heal them more. Can someone tell me where i should go from here?
Block value and rating will continue to be on gear, both in ICC and Cataclysm, but it may be somewhat different in Cataclysm. Also if you become an avoidance tank, that means your total health is down. Think about this: You have a 70% avoidance and 38KHP raid buffed and a boss normally hits you for 20k. You won't take damage often, but if you get a period where you get hit twice in a row with no heals, you will die. Then take a tank with 50% avoidance but 42kHP raid buffed. He will live if he gets hit twice in a row without heals. He will get hit more often of course, but the extra health creates a larger window of opportunity for your healers to react. Avoidance will be more important in ICC due to -20% dodge but tanks will still stack stamina because larger effective health with a steadier stream of damage is more controllable than playing whack-a-mole with your tank's health bar when avoidance stacking.
Boss armor was reduced to 10643 when they changed how armor penetration worked, I believe midway through the Ulduar patch. The 100% that everyone talks about only affects the percentage of that 10643 armor that is allowed to be removed by penetration. That percentage is increased indirectly (within the armor reduction formula) by applying sunder armor and FF.
Hello there. As I currently find myself having to reserve my second 2nd spec for tanking, I am trying to find a balanced Arms spec covering both PvP and PvE. My idea was to get all talents providing mandatory PvP utility while minimizing the damage loss in PvE encounters. You can have a look at what I am using to cover both aspects in the armory.
My main concern at the moment is to work out what combination of glyphs is the most suitable in that case and how to change my basic rotation, since I did not skill Improved Slam. It seems that without the casttime reduction of Slam, a rotation only casting one Slam (instead of two) in the cooldown cycle of Mortal Strike and/or Taste for Blood provides the most dps. This feels somehow counter intuitive, as there are always situations where I have enough rage and could cast Slam, but just waiting for Mortal Strike to finish cooling down or waiting for the next Overpower, due to Taste for Blood, provides better dps. This waiting time span can be as long as about 1.5 seconds, but that rotation still hits harder in the end than squeezing a 2nd Slam into the 6 second cycle and therby delaying the next Overpower, Mortal Strike or even Execute.
Any suggestions on Slam, viable spec, suitable rotation and glyphs would be greatly appreciated.
I have a rather simple question about tanking as a warrior:
Is there any reason why to still use Thunderfury instead of a level 232 tanking weapon?
Our tank keeps on insisting that it's proc is totally awesome for tanking several mobs and still superior even for tanking single mobs, but from my experience as a 0/13/58 warlock is that threat is such a massive issue that I am treat-capped most of the time now, even with smart use of soulshatter and I managed to accidentally pull aggro on TotC10 Anub after ~3 minutes into the fight.
Of course I look at my threat-meter and try to keep my threat below 130% of the tanks threat, but my question is not about threat management.
So is it just my experience or is it very likely that his threat is much lower now since he started to use his Thunderfury?
Warrior single target DPS is heavy relied on AP-based abiltiies (conc blow, shockwave, thunderclap, shield slam). Im not sure if revenge is the same or devastate but thunderfury would only be a downer for rage-regeneration from white hits and on weapon-damage skills.
@Cortic, warriors are "balanced" right now in comparison to other classes. Its hard to say your other guildies suck but there are quite a few classes "weaker" then warriors. It really depends on how well you play your class. I consider myself a very geared warrior, but some classes dominate my DPS if they have the gear and skill to back it up. I tear locks up on the DPS meters in my guilds raids, however, I have been out-dpsed by a lock before.
@Muqatil; the main difference between a PVP arms warrior and PVE arms warrior is picking up talents that passively heal you and benefit you in PVP. (Piercing howl, second wind. weapon mastery and bloodcraze mainly). These talents are replaced in the PVE spec with imp slam, and incite mainly. You cant really balance that to get the best of both worlds without sacking your PVE DPS.
The tooltip says that it only affects players and i did not read that there is any exception.
Correct, I tested on faction champs a while back and nada. It's meant to be a PVP-focused talent only. I believe it was implemented when everyone QQed at the start of the WoTLK when Arms Warriors sucked in PVP and Fury became popular.
I don't play a warrior as a main and I've been reading back in this thread trying to make sure this wasn't answered but I apologize if it was.
A warrior suggested to me on my alt warrior that equipping trinkets before a fight so that there on cd when you start is better so they can proc when you have your rotation going, sunders up, etc. Rather than having them equipped normally and proc at the very beginning. I know as a druid(my main) I have seen a little testing done on this for feral dps but nothing significant enough to confirm/deny. My first thought would be its not going to be, if at all, any difference in dps. Can anyone confirm/deny or offer any insight into this idea?
Re-equipping proc-trinkets before the fight starts triggers their internal CD. Just tested it with Runestone/Death's Verdict: When equipping them right before start of the fight, the first proc comes at ~45-47s. Without re-equipping them, the first proc comes at ~2s into the fight.
Usually the first proc at ~2s comes too soon to time it with Death Wish/Recklessness, so you have to wait 45s to align the proc with your CDs. In standard fights, that won't make a real difference, and having the first proc at the beginning makes Procodile show the ICD of the trinkets for better timing. The only situation where I can imagine it to be useful is if you need your CDs to be ready again at the beginning of P2 of a boss or something similar.
As long as your raid is semi-predictable in how long you have before a pull happens, trinket swapping can be useful in some fights. For example, Anub25h, I swap trinkets a bit before the pull, so that the first Greatness proc occurs just as the first set of adds get into position and I hit deathwish.
As a rule of thumb, I wouldn't bother on a regular fight that doesn't have key moments you want to boost your dps early on.
Oh and read the post from BWarner/Aero, it's pretty informative.
In the meantime I have used Outfitter macros to do this:
/outfitter wear TG
But I did run into a problem on Twins where somehow after switching to Defensive Stance, equipping Sword+Board, using Shield Wall, then switching back to Berserker Stance and hitting the above TG macro, where somehow it only equipped the main hand and not the offhand weapon. It has worked fine in the past. I'm a little nervous about relying on an addon for this and would like a solid ingame macro.
11/18/09, 12:41 PM
