But this happens now that we have a single stat above the others. When ArP, Str, Crit have a similar SEP the 21 crit meta is slightly better, by 0-2 stats + 10 stamina.
The crit meta gives +4 crit at trade of one gem requirement which is 10 dps stats towards stamina. So you only need a socket bonus of 6 stats to match the other meta and have free stamina. And with a socket bonus of 8 stats you're gaining 2 dps stats too.

Now that was hypothetical talk. In the actual tier of raiding ArP is too good and crit too bad. And on Bis setups there isn't a single item with 8 stat socket bonus aside of helm. So yes at the moment the agility meta is better by these specific circumstances.

Simple question : Does the 4T10 GCD reducing effect work on ALL Slam or only on "procced" ones?
If it is, i'll find the 4t10 fairly good as a bonus set, unless, i'll go OS i think.

It has a buggy behavior explained somewhere on this forums - it basically should only reduce slams coming from proc, but it does work for 10 sec after proc.

However, regardless of this, why would you declare going for offspec? Even assuming you will be below crit cap (which isnt easy with leather gear) the Head/Chest/Legs/Shoulders are BIS in their categories WITHOUT looking at set bonus attached. Thats at heroic level, but I doubt its much different at lower level (and even if now t10 might be behind, it wont in few weeks).

So unless Arthas loots shows some really amazing drops , we are going to use 4p t10 , simply for the stats. Bonus - it will be just that - a bonus. And even then it would require 25 man heroic Arthas to drop loot at 284 lvl - something that is expected but not confirmed. 277 Items wont be a competition - t10 has simply too good itemization for us to pass on - it can be SLIGHTLY upgraded , but not enough to overcome even shitty set bonuses.

Edit: Add to that the fact that (for some people its important) Cataclysm changes will make leather useless - I left it out in original post, since I dont really care about how my gear fares few months after progression is over , but nevertheless it is a valid point for some.

Thanks for the answer Shha, this makes things a lot more clear to me.
So you're suggesting that T10 (minus gloves) is BIS, I think i'll go on that so .
With the slam reducing GCD effect during 10 seconds, I feel the 4T10 would be worthwile as a bonus, permitting us to have a smoother rotation in fury spec, assuming the "GCD reduce effect" uptime is high, it could become a great bonus.
Does any Warrior using 4t10 have info on that uptime?

By offspec i didn't meaned using leather but Frost Emblems to buy the chest or crafts like the legs with sooooo much Arpen on it, my goal is to hardcap Arpen without Mjolnir Runestone.

However, could you explain this "277 Items wont be a competition - t10 has simply too good itemization for us to pass on - it can be SLIGHTLY upgraded , but not enough to overcome even shitty set bonuses.", i don't understand the meaning here ^^.

Excuse me for my approximative English, i'm a French user looking for some improvement

Simple Question: How definitive is Landsoul's spreadsheet? I'm currently "soft ArP capped" and when I go to two AP/Str trinkets and gem all ArP I get a DPS decrease (according to the spreadsheet). Is this absolutely correct? Once my gear starts improving more and more and I can input two Str/AP trinkets, go all ArP gems, and get a DPS increase (according to the spreadsheet) over my "soft cap", will that be absolutely correct?

Does anyone know the passive ArP % required to make it superior to the soft cap off the top of their head?

Also, I have heard of people intentionally gemming over their ArP soft cap for more constant/less jumpy DPS. Can anyone enlighten me on this? If your gear can't support a hard cap and you are stuck with soft cap, is this the way to go?

I'm sorry for bringing back up such a frequently discussed topic. I have tried using the search feature to find my answer. I find quite a few posts that touch on the topic, but I wasn't really able to find the answer I was looking for in the time I spent searching.

Thanks for any help in advance!

While the spreadsheet certainly isn't definitive, it's the best estimation we have and is far far better than any kind of manual estimation/calculation, feeling, or anecdotal evidence. It will also give the best estimate you can get as to when you should stop softcapping and start going for hardcap. As for gemming ArP over the softcap it's generally a bad idea. Even if the trinket uptime is only 20%, a big part of the ArP's value comes from what it provides during that uptime when you're below the softcap.

So the lich king item table has been discovered somewhat and [Glorenzelg, High-Blade of the Silver Hand] has shown up. would it be possible to still reach hard armor pen cap as a fury warrior using of of these? Or 2 even?

Yes, no problem. I'm hardcapped without Deathbringers Will. Get DBW and you can have a weapon without ArP on it and still go for hardcap.

Hi all,

Longer post/question and I apologize in advance if this should have gone in the Prot thread. This week I tanked Festergut (alongside a prot paladin) and died every single attempt including the kill. Rather than blame my healers (who regularly single heal Saurfang and whom I have the utmost confidence in), I'm wondering if I'm missing some basic mitigation rotations/abilities that I should be using. I've been religiously following the advice from here, tankspot, and tankingtips, as well as reviewing the armories of the various people that post regularly and I really thought I was set.

My rotation for Festergut was to Armour Pot, Charge/Heroic Throw, Shield Slam, Thunderclap, Shield Block and then Threat rotation keeping Thunderclap on the boss. Now I haven't been using Demo Shout, and will be working that in, but I still don't think I should be "unhealable".

I'm not just dying when he stacks his buff, but even in the first minute. On average I seem to get hit for 11k, and the paladin claims he's only being hit for 8k. Am I missing something in my spec/gear/rotation?


Resources
My armory (since it's not in my sideprofile)
The World of Warcraft Armory - Coerce @ Steamwheedle Cartel - Profile

And here's the relevant WoLogs link:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Honestly the reason I posted this here is that I feel like there must be some basic thing I'm doing wrong to get killed over and over like that when the paladin is having no such issues.

Thanks in advance!

Within the first minute would imply that you're dying before the 2nd stack. There is absolutely no reason for this to be happening with your gear.


Right when stack 3 occurs is when the CD rotations (GS, SW, LS, etc.) have to used. When you get more gear you can rely on just your cooldowns, but for now you're going to need all raid CDs rotated onto you.

As for your gear in general, how many badges do you currently have?

As a Warrior who is still working on the Normal content, you should be picking up all of the armor pieces thus far. You definitely need to pick up Pillars of Might, those are our BiS for the rest of ICC. The offset pieces are still better than the 264 tier gear for EH until you can upgrade to the 277, (The 264 tier chest/gloves are now acceptable substitutes.)

Also, swap out that expertise enchant on your gloves for: Glove Reinforcement

As a MT, you need to be doing everything in your power to ensure that your healers jobs are easier. Unless you have a Ret Paladin in your raid, you need to be using Demoralizing Shout.

Any prot paladin worth a raid slot should have Vindication (which covers the -AP debuff and doesn't stack with demo).

Over execute, most definitely. Over heroic fury ? Depends really on preference.

Myself I would pick 2/3 Cleave and keep Heroic Fury. Improved Cleave is not that gamebreaking. Each talent point should mean around +2/3% dmg on Cleave, +88 base damage. The more AP you have the lesser it increases your Cleave damage percentually.

And then you can always have both Execute and Cleave with dual spec.
To know for sure if you should have points in Imp. Execute or Cleave for each fight, count how many hits you do with them. If you can use Execute at least 93% of times of the Cleave hits is better to go for Execute. This is easy to count because with 2/2 Execute you gain 190 base damage everytime you use it, and 2/3 Cleave is +177 base damage per hit, up to 3 times per use if there are 3 enemies and glyphed.
I think the other factor that could step in is 4pc t10 since its bloodsurge procs are better than Execute on 2 of the 3 free GCds per rotation.

For an arms warrior with engineering, what enchant would you use on your gloves? Engineering Haste, Pyro Rocket, or the standard AP enchant?

Additionally, how does engineering for an arms warrior compare to, say, jewelcrafting, when you use bombs in your rotation?

I act a third tank (25 mans) and off tank (10 mans) so I have my dual spec set as prot. I decided to go with 4/5 commanding presence, since I need it for commanding shout (our ret paladin gives imp. BoM). It comes out to a loss of around 120 health or so. Thanks for the input!

I see a lot of talk on the fury warrior thread about crit soft cap... could anyone give me a rough estimate of it or how to calculate it?

This is true for level 80 mobs, but for boss level encounters you need to factor in the 4.8% crit depression.

(Simple Question) Expertise Cap on Offhand? I have always kept mine capped and been 100% that this is right. I have had more than a few warriors tell my I'm wasting the stat if I'm over on my main and capped on my offhand.

Expertise on offhand isn't as important since specials only take mainhand into account. You lose the value, just like hit past softcap, other things are just better. As always, if in doubt trust the spreadsheet, it will always give the correct recommendation to the best of people's collective understanding.

Normally I'm prot, but I've been DPSing Lich King 25man and been stuck with applying sunders for the raid. Now phase 1 this is absolutely no problem.

Basically I'm wondering if its worth bothering putting sunders up on the Valkyr/defile phase. In the amount of time it takes to kill the Valkyrs combined with movement for defiles makes it almost impossible to refresh sunder. Will the raid be losing or gaining dps if I'm constantly having to refresh all 5 stacks of sunder after every Valkyr spawn?

Hit sunder on the last global before you swap target and you're set I believe.

For reference,val'kyrs should probably be exposed.

I don't think that expose is worth it. A valkyr should live max 10 seconds, so it is more damage if the rogues just use their combo points for a finisher, because I doubt that the additional melee damage through 20% reduced armor would be higher than a finisher.