I've seen crazy damage like that happen during our most recent 25 man Gothik. I started devastating for 20k, shield slamming for 60 and thunderclapping for 25k. It only lasted a few seconds though.

A very rudimentary example:

Berserking MH up 50% of the time, 400 BASE ap (since AttT Ap also scales the same with talents, etc we will leave them out for the comparison) with 12000 armor = 200 AP. With Berserking up, you go down to 9000 armor = 150 AP. You lose 50. So then, really Berserking only gives you 350 base AP. If Berserking is up 50% of the time giving 350 AP, it gives 175 AP on average. Versus massacre base 110 AP, Berserking is better. This is the main hand.

I have not tested it myself, but to determine if berserking is better than Massacre in the offhand, you would need to know if MH/OH procs are stackable and not refreshable, of which I have no idea.

according to wowhead it seems the proc stacks, tho that comment was made a long time ago. if your going to do a calculation make sure to include zerkstance and kings when thinking about "armored to the teeth talent".

Also 50% uptime seems excessive, the wowhead comments indicates a 1ppm which would be 25% uptime.

Am am unsure if this changes the value of subject of the Berserking Enchant but if you read Armored to the Teeth - Spell - World of Warcraft it says the spell only ticks and applies itself every 30 seconds. Thus, depending when the enchant procs, you may or may not receive a reduction in AP from AttT.

Along with that, depending on when that 'tick' happens, you could also lose that armor for 30 seconds while AttT refreshes to see if your armor value changed again. You might not even have the AP from the enchant proc at that point in time.

If that is in fact how AttT works, Berserking seems like a potentially risky enchant.

Last night in Caverns of Time I somehow getting crits like this. Looked through the combat log and found nothing, can only assume it's a bug or something.

*sigh* This is basic uptime mechanics... there have been threads entirely devoted to it. You cannot simply multiply the duration by the chance per second of it going off to get an uptime (1ppm*15s/60s = 25%).

1ppm with a 3.4s swing = 5.67% chance to proc per swing (3.4/60).

However, since (last I read), proc chances are calculated post-haste, it puts your swing closer to 2s in a raid setting, or a 3.33% chance to proc per swing.

If you are soft-hit capped (let's believe it's the old 14% for this example), you are making 12 BT attacks, 6 WW attacks and ~15 HS attacks and 15 melee attacks with your main hand. 12+6+15+(15*0.85) = 45.75 attacks per minute.

Uptime is given by chance to not proc to the power of the number of attacks by length of buff over a given interval:

1-(1-0.03333333)^(45.75*0.25) = 0.321, or ~32% uptime on a 1ppm buff lasting 15s following the optimal Warrior Fury rotation.

If proc-chance is not post-haste, then it's ~49% uptime.

And just to be clear, we're talking about MH mechanics. OH you obviously don't add the BT and WW hits into the equation.

Hi everyone,

I got two questions concerning glyphs.

1) Do they really offer the effect - including all its side effects and/or consequences - the description claims?
For instance: "Glyph of Devastate" applies with one use two "Sunder Armor" at the same time.
Does that mean that I also get the same amount of threat and deal the same debuff value as if I'd have used "Sunder Armor" twice?
It should but I heard some rumors about that not being the case.

2) Does different glyphs stack 100% with each other?
Example: I have "Glyph of Devastate" and "Glyph of Sunder Armor" and attack a group of two mobs.
I attack the first mob 2 times with "Devastate", which means that it should have the "Sunder Armor" effect 4 times applied to itself.
Does the second mob also suffers from 4 times "Sunder Armor" because of my glyphs?

Thank's already for your help!

You're right with the non quoted part, I posted in response too quickly.

Are you sure to ignore the WW hits for OH procs though? WW states instant hit with both weapons which would be an extra offhand hit as well unless the mechanics aren't that intuitive.

If WW does work like extra OH swings, a slow 2hander with berserking in OH seems like a clear choise over Massacre.

I did a quick 4 minute test on the dummy in ironforge, mostly to try and figure out how berserking worked and if it could refresh it self. It can indeed refresh and over the 4 minutes I was bashing the dummy I got 11 procs, 5 of them were refreshing the proc already up. This should hint towards ppm scaling with haste, which is quite insane considering with semi decent gear and raid buffed we're going to sport towards 55-60% haste.

Lately I've started playing around with Pawn, which I'm loving, but I've got a small problem. For FuryDPS, there's a spreadsheet, and for Tanking there's a spreadsheet. But since we don't have dual-specs yet, I'm doing most of my grinding and questing as Prot, rather than respeccing Fury and back again. Does anyone out there have some rough SEP values for DPS as Prot? I could just use the values from the Fury sheet, but I'm thinking that there's going to be some significant differences. Mostly in Str vs. AP, since Shield Slam is my biggest damage source, and SS scales amazingly with Str, and not at all with AP.

The difference between OH berserking and OH massacre is so abysmal that you shouldn't waste the gold or the armor reduction using it in the offhand.

But this started me to think about bloodsurge. It only reduces your slam castime to 0 from 1.5 but not rage cost. I mean every time you get bloodsurge you have both ww and bt on cd. And since it no longer reset your swingtime what to you really gain by having lower casttime on slam when there is no other ability to use until ww and bt is up again? Assuming the mob is stationary. What am i missing?

I'd think the obvious answer here would be DPS. What ARE you missing?

You missed my point, whats the different doing 1.5 sec slam and 0 sec slam when WW and BT is on cd?

Slam suspends your auto attack last I checked, which is still a fairly significant portion of your damage.

I thought people investigated and found the Whirlwind Glyph did not affect Bladestorm. I could be wrong, but I'd use the Rend one instead of the Whirlwind glyph for an Arms build.

Yes. Autoswing/Heroic Strike are my highest sources of damage.

Not sure if this is the best place to ask or if i missed it already but currently Item rack is not allowing the creation of a set for TG and putting a 2h in in offhand. Does anyone know of a similar mod or is there an option i may be missing that allows this within itemrack?

Using mace mainhand and offhand, with dwarf racial, I've sped past the expertise cap (now at 7.25% with no gems). My question is, is it better to drop otherwise well itemised pieces that have expertise on to get below the cap again, or drop the two talent points in Weapon Mastery and put them somewhere else?

To look at it in a more general way (I guess asking my-spec questions isn't helpful to most), should talents like Weapon Mastery and Precision be dropped once gear/gemming removes the absolute requirement to have them, or is it still better to keep the talents and use the points saved on STR, crit, etc. I can't see any really obvious places to put these points for improved dps - Improved Cleave is about the only talent that leaps out.

Xav wrote a short guide on this, So you're heading to northrend, huh? The answer is absolutely to regem, re-enchant, and regear.

Well, seeing that most boss mobs (I believe) has more parry than dodge, you may want to think about removing weapon mastery. 7.25% is overdoing a bit, but I see that you still have your T6 belt, so you should plan your stats out based on not having the expertise from that when you replace it.


Anyways, I have my own question. Has anyone figured or calculated the proc rate on our T7/7.5 4 set piece bonus (Your bleeds have a chance to make your abilities cost 5 less rage)?

Cool, glad my intuition actually was right for once. Thanks!

I have a warrior in the guild who is still leveling to 80, but am trying to get him thinking about how he should be performing once we start into Naxx and beyond, especially after seeing his BC performance at 70. My dilemma is he loves to dual wield, and with the new talents, fell in love with Bladestorm, so he's a dual wielding arms spec right now. (Why I keep him around is long and complicated, so we can avoid that discussion altogether right now)

Could anyone provide some mathematical support for my argument about how much he is losing in doing this? Assume heroic level gear, gemmed to hit capped for specials if need be, and a Titansteel Destroyer for the 2h weapon vs comparable one handers or TG with the Destroyer and De-raged axe for comparison. (All he might get until he shapes up)

He loves dual wielding so much, I'm trying to convince him to go the path of TG vs arms, but with enough numbers behind it, I feel I can get a big two hander in his hand for a bladestorm spec.