Taliafears

There's quite a bit of variation in the fights these days. Take Naxxramas.

On the one hand you have Patchwerk who in 25man can hit a tank for 20000 damage. In that situation blocking for 1000 isn't a big deal. It does provide a little bit of burst protection if you're able to fill out the combat table and never take an unblocked hit, but it's still going to let 19k through.

On the other hand you have Loatheb who hits like a girl but doesn't allow you very many heals. Block Rating/Value really shines in a fight like that. Similarly there are a number of fights like Gothik and Noth where you may be expected to pick up and hold a few adds at a time. Blocks will work well in those fights too.

Based on the math I've seen in my sheet, on the whole block rating/value is still probably not worth the item budget it consumes. It's just nice to have some pieces around that you can swap in when you think they might be useful.

 

Buffalo

The breastplate is a drop from Sartharion 25 with 1 drake up.

You can check how the drakes change Sartharion loot at Sartharion 25 - WotLK Loot.

Sartharion 10 loot is also listed on the site.

 

◊ Birdemani

I haven't looked but does BV go down that much as you move to Naxx 25 gear? Fully raid buffed with shield block up I was blocking for 4000 in Naxx and in WG this weekend. I do use the Def/SBV meta and the Blocking glyph as well. It just seems less trivial at those values.

 

Trual

Not really... With the def/sta meta and blocking glyph I'm blocking for ~1.3k in Naxx 25 with my current gear. We haven't had enough clears yet to reach the point where I have a choice of the perfect item for each slot, though, so once I'm able to fully tweak my gear to personal preference I expect it to go up into the 1.5 - 1.7k range.

 

Glory

Nice List thanks for that.

Well could you maybe consider Professions?

To compare the Professions I take Stamina Equivalent Points, some are extremely vague.
SEP because of Malygos, Sartharion (with adds), Kel'Thuzad, their Kill Potential is Spelldmg.

If there are BoP items you can Craft, i compare them with the Best non Craft Item.

To lign the Professions up i'd Say


1. Jewelcrafting +51Stam +3times Socket Bonus which is worth about 4-5Stam -> Say 64 SEP
+ Awesome Stamina Trinket, nothing compareable: 63 + 24 + 12 + 9= 108 Stamina + 8 Defense + nice use Effect = 146 SEP - 2nd Best non Profession Trinket = 37 SEP
Total of 101 SEP (decreases if Epic gems will come, but no update to current 41 Stam gems)

2. Leatherworking + 78 Stamina Enchant -> 78 SEP

3. Blacksmithing + 48 Stamina -> 48 SEP (+ increase, when epic gems are in game)

4. Enchanter + 48 Stamina -> 48 SEP

5. Mining +500 HP -> 42 SEP (No Kings, Vitality)

6. Alchemy +650/2 HP = 325 HP -> 28 SEP + Alchemyst Stone ~ 5 SEP -> 33 SEP

7. Inscription + 32 Dodge = 25 SEP

8. Engineer +Fun +Helm till you got 25 T7/Vital Prot +Fun = 4 SEP

9. Herbalism +Hot = 3 SEP (Just a bit more than nothing) and -100% armor is not an option.

10. Skinning +25 crit = 0 SEP (Just makes the Boss more angry)

11. Tailoring +300 Ap procc = 0 SEP (Just makes the Boss more angry)

Correct me if i totally missed something

 

Ambika

I made the Monarch crab trinket, put in it:

+63 STA base
+24 STA Gem
+41 Jc only Gem
+9STA bonus socket
=
137STA Trinket with a 60s dodge burst on it.

All in all a monster upgrade and very worthwhile cramming everything possible into it after you get past that wretched DEF cap hurdle.

 

Kethas

The two Malygos quest necklaces, [Drakescale Collar] and [Nexus War Champion Beads], are ilvl 213 and 226 respectively, not 200 and 213. They're also the only epic nonprofession tanking necks with sockets.

 

Glory

Ambika thats the Trinket i mentioned, but there are better Socket Slots than a Yellow you can fill with the Prismatic 41 Stam Gems, T7 has got 3 Red Sockets, put them there.

And the Trinket is about 146 SEP and thats a 146 SEP Upgrade if you compare it with not equiping a Trinket in that Slot. But if you compare it to other Trinkets its at worst a 37 SEP Upgrade, thats stil superior than for example Alchemy.

 

Taliafears

Your burst block can go to 4000 if Shield Block is up and you get a critical block, but you can't use that number to gauge anything, it's a random fluke that you can't count on. Your average block value is going to be on the order of 1.3k, maybe 1.6k if you gear for it.

 

Cardynal

You should also mention that the value for JC will decrease once new tanking trinkets come. The current state of tanking trinkets is pretty sad really in that none of the epic ones grant any stamina. A Darkmoon card would have been an easy fix for this. Also, from a pure SEP point of view, you can't give dodge or defense a value since they're not useful for magical attacks. The next highest stam trinket, not including the Essence of Gossamer, is the Commendation of Kael'thas at 57 stam. Assuming you do 2 24 stams in the JC trinket, that's 111 stam.

You're also undervaluing the socket bonuses. Including the helm, it would be a 18 to 24 stam increase. Plus you're switching from a parry/stam gem to a pure stam gem for the meta requirement, which is another 12 stam at the current level of gems.

I would give JC these values

3.0 value : 51(stam gems) + 24 (socket bonus) + 54 (trinket) + 12 (only wearing stam gems) = 141

3.1 value : 33 (stam gems) + 24 (socket bonus) + 15 (only wearing stam gems) = 72

The 3.1 value is assuming that the gear in 3.1 will include 3 or more items that require something other than a blue gem to meet a +6 stam socket bonus. If not, this could drop as low as 48.

I'm only pointing this out since you could be a MT with skinning and tailoring and be fine with the currently level of difficulty in 3.0.

 

Salizzle

FYI - Burning Skull Pendant dropped for me in regular Gundrak.

Edit- Yes, from trash.

 

◊ Birdemani

Is the Stam to Shield enchant for WLK still NYI?

Relwin: Besides, the BB is not some ivory tower of WoW knowledge, it's just less stupid here than elsewhere.
DeeNogger: Not less stupid, better stupid. The BB takes stupid very seriously. Now if you will excuse me, I have to go misspell the word fire.

 

◊ Jameson

This post has a good summary of profession benefits: http://elitistjerks.com/904932-post854.html

Yep, Defense is about all we have right now for WOTLK enchants.

 

Jayde

That seems a bit low for an average. 1k unbuffed is not a strange number to get in current available gear which gives a base block value of something in the neighborhood of 775.

Critical Block is not all that uncommon--30% rate is definitely high enough to average out. Shield Block optimally has a 25% uptime, which is also very reliable as it assured to have that effect.

Therefore, the average result of blocks including Glyph of Blocking and Shield Mastery (which are additive with Shield Block and eachother) should fall in the line of:
52.5% Normal (1.4x)
22.5% Critical (2.8x)
17.5% Normal w/ Shield Block (2.4x)
7.5% Critical w/ Shield Block (4.8x)

This would seem to yield and average block value of 214.5% of base block. As we have established that is in the vicinity of 775 (possibly more), that would give an average block of 1.6k unbuffed even with basic gear.

I am personally at around 1.6k average unbuffed with only having 2-3 items with block value on them. (My unbuffed shield block is just a hair over 1k, with Shield Mastery up of course.) As it would likely be possible to gain upwards of 150 base block with full raid buffs, an "average" block value of just under 2k does not seem to be an unresonable amount based on the numbers.

Obviously, as your original remark reflected, the bigger hits on certain bosses will obviously not be as affected by block value as others... but when many bosses hit in the range of 8-12k, a 2k average block is quite a substantial chunk. The bigger point, however, is always going to be when Shield Block is used at low HP when needed rather than averaging out. This gives 10 seconds of 2.2k/4.4k blocks, with an average of 2.9k blocks in situations where mitigation is most needed. That definitely starts eating into the hits--even the big ones--at the most critical time.

 

Taliafears

It's a good analysis and comes to the same result I got, average block amount is about double your base (without shield mastery). I ran off of my base for the low estimate, which is 651. I probably underestimated the amount you can get with better gear/buffs.

 

◊ Ugato

New weapon enchant: Enchant Weapon - Titanguard - Added in patch 3.0.8. World of Raids Gallery

 

Jamor

In the next patch, BS is getting a 40 BV to shield enchant that will probably be the choice for both paladin and warrior tanks.

 

Thorgrim

I think 20 defense is still pretty competitive with that.

It is also worth noting that the tempered titansteel helmet is gaining a meta socket, a blue socket, and a +6 defense socket bonus. That puts it into contention with the other similar ilvl hats, I think.

 

Go Go Godzilla

This isn't posting correctly, though it's not the fault of OP; looks like it's not grabbing correctly from Wowhead. Anyway, here's the correct item link: Heritage

 

Thorgrim

Coming in the patch, a new shoulder enchant purchaseable with 10k honor - 30 stamina, 15 resilience.

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...egladiator.jpg

I'm not sure how competitive it will be with the Hodir enchants overall, but if you're going for stamina stacking it might be worth a look (along with some minor crit reduction from the resilience.)

 

◊ vorpalblade

Does it appear that [Wall of Terror] is well under budget? It has the commensurate Armor and Block value increase one would expect from the 213 to 226 ilvl jump, but when compared to the common 213 shields: [Hero's Surrender] and [Barricade of Eternity] (see a side by side comparison), it seems that the 226 shield has basically identical or inferior stat allocation. Dropping 21 stam is a pretty tough pill to swallow in order to gain a little block rating and strength which already comes at the expense of avoidance.

It seemed pretty clearly under budget upon first glance leading me to think they might increase its stats at some point, but now I'm not sure. Now that I think back on it, it seems to me that the stat upgrades on the shield progression in Burning Crusade were pretty understated too with the exception of Armor/BV which has always increased with item level. (specifically, [Kaz'rogal's Hardened Heart](141) -> [Bulwark of Azzinoth](151) -> [Sword Breaker's Bulwark](154)). As the only ilvl226 tanking shield, there's not really any easy frame of reference, but maybe the closest comparison would be looking at the healing shields. For instance, the jump from [Shield of Assimilation] to [Voice of Reason] seems like a pretty solid step up on all accounts, depending on the item value-weight trade-off of the MP5 vs. Crit rating (and the small haste loss, I suppose).

I suppose none of the tanking shields are really that exceptionally itemized, but this seems like a pretty legitimate item budget issue as opposed to an inferiority-by-virtue-of-poor-itemization snafu. In particular there aren't a lot of end-boss drops that are a noticeable step down from lower ilvl drops unless the lower level item is wildly OVER-budget, so I'm just trying to justify the discrepancy.

 

Bregonn

You might want to check it on the test server. They've fixed a lot of off-budget items and not all of them are documented. For example [Fireproven Gauntlets] was also underbudgetted and is fixed (it's now 67 str, 99 stam, 48 def and 38 dodge).

 

Rustyboy

I too was surprised to see the wall of the dead with 226 ilevel. I would say in most cases Barricade of Eternity > Wall of the Dead. The strength is really the only thing on this shield that makes it somewhat usefull.

 

Branar

Many of the off-set pieces with block rating have inferior stam. Take a look at:

[Cloak of the Shadowed Sun]
[Shadow of the Ghoul]

[Platehelm of the Great Wyrm]
[Helm of Vital Protection]
(in this case it's sacrificing a meta socket + gem socket instead of stam, but given the way most people gem it amounts to the same thing)

[Inexorable Sabatons]
[Kyzoc's Ground Stompers]

[Fleshless Girdle]
[Ablative Chitin Girdle]

There are more, but those are the ones that came to mind.

For whatever reason, items with block rating often have less stam - possibly a misguided effort to make warriors 'pay' for becoming unhittable (I would think the lost avoidance/other stats would be an adequate penalty, but maybe I'm wrong).

Wall of Terror is of course particularly bad, but I think it's a more generalized problem. Block rating is nice in some situations, but when you're talking about sacrificing 20+ stam (in some cases much more - the boots and belt being particularly good examples) in many slots to get it, the number of situations where it's actually worth it dwindles rather sharply.

 

◊ vorpalblade

Well, what you're pointing out is true, but stat variations within a particular item level (all the items you linked are ilvl213) are generally inevitable and expected. The thing that really sticks out in this case is the itemlevel jump from 213 to 226 without any appreciable increase (and a couple noticeable deficiencies) in stats apart from the requisite Armor and Block value increase, almost as if it was designed as an ilvl213 shield before they decided to add it to Kel'Thuzad's loot table and increase it's itemlevel. Obviously I don't know anything about their item design workflow, but stats are misallocated all the time so it could be as simple as that.

However, you've got a good point. The idea that block rating might be over-weighted in the item budget is a plausible one, and something I've noticed on other block rating tank pieces that seem to sacrifice a lot of other attributes for it.

(EDIT: Checked on the PTR, and Wall of Terror still has the same stats.)