zork

I set up some Wowhead filters for myself to filter Ulduar tank loot with defense.

Ulduar 10man
Plate Plate Armor - Items - World of Warcraft
Cloaks, rings, shields and necks Armor - Items - World of Warcraft
Weapons Weapons - Items - World of Warcraft
Trinkets Trinkets - Items - World of Warcraft
Set Valorous Siegebreaker Plate - Item Set - World of Warcraft

Ulduar 25man
Plate Plate Armor - Items - World of Warcraft
Cloaks, rings, shields and necks Armor - Items - World of Warcraft
Weapons Weapons - Items - World of Warcraft
Trinkets Trinkets - Items - World of Warcraft
Set Conqueror's Siegebreaker Plate - Item Set - World of Warcraft
Crafted Plate Armor - Items - World of Warcraft

Merchant items
Emblem of Valor Items - World of Warcraft
Emblem of Heorism Items - World of Warcraft

Lootrank.com comparsion
Loot Rank for WotLK

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Eyegore

I realize I am late to the conversation, but I am a bit surprised by the dismissal of blood draining as a viable enchant. I trust people are not assuming that is has the same horrendous proc chance that blade ward does? In my experience it stacks up to 5 stacks and stays up pretty reliably until consumed. So obviously its no help if you get killed in one blow from above 35%, but in most burst to dead scenarios it functions as a +HP enchant given that the auto-proccing heal means it takes that much more damage to kill you.

Are tanks finding they are under 35% too frequently for it to restack, getting dropped to dead from over 35% more often than not, or what? Checking a log of one of our early bosses in uldar raids, so not too many wipes (it looks like I died 6 times total), I find I got healed 31 times by blood reserve for an average of 1.4k. So it wasn't fully stacked for all of those, but that looks like an average of at least 3-4 stacks for each heal, and I know I needed those heals as I had to dip under 35% to set it off. I would definitely take an enchant that gave me 1.4k more HP, this obviously isn't quite as good as that but given the lack of great alternatives I'll take it.

edit* or additionally, as perhaps a case could be made that it becomes less useful on stuff that hits for more than 35% of your hp, I find that on our general kill the following day (after we gave up on thorim hard mode ) it healed me 6 times for an average of 1.6k. Seems to me that if that + hots or a fast heal from whatever healer managed not to get shadow crashed (or whatever the issue is that finds you under 35%) is what you have to help you survive the next swing an extra 1.6k hp is more likely to make the difference than an extra 1% avoidance or so on average.

 

Jayde

Blood Draining procs at a 50% rate with a 10s internal cooldown. So, basically, it will proc once every 10-11 seconds, typically.

I find it quite useful, even if it doesn't post massive numbers. It heals when it matters, which gives a slightly higher buffer for allowing HoTs and incoming heals to top you up before the next swing should you drop below 35%.

I would personally use either Blood Draining or Mongoose, there isn't much use for anything else really. (Accuracy is pretty pointless nowadays even as a threat enchant with so much hit on Ulduar gear.)

Given the timing of major events in fights is often around a 60 second timer, the 50-55 second restack time should not be an issue. Then the stacks are there to provide valuable bonus health to recover from a big hit like Unbalancing Strike or things of that nature. Basically it's 2k extra HP in the situations when it's fairly clear you need it.

The enchant isn't going to stand out as "omg amazing" right away, but the potential value there is much higher than the others just from a tanking dynamics point of view, IMO.

 

digitaljdr

First of all thank you for compiling such a list, I found myself referencing many times once I got my warrior to 80 and wanted to start the gauntlet of getting tank gear for it.

 

• Tibor

Are you conflating hit with expertise? There's an enormous amount of expertise gear, and expertise seems to be the threat stat they itemise on BiS gear -- Iron Army and Sorthalis leap out at me -- at the expense of hit (Charred Saronite and Shiver/Titanguard). This leaves aside optimal survival gear, which is optimal for survival precisely because itemisation points aren't spent on threat stats.

It's not that I don't see the value in expertise, but with many tank-switching encounters (not the least of which, Algalon) in Ulduar, I end up making otherwise suboptimal choices for the sake of unresisted taunts.

Would it have killed them to itemise a 94stam ring with some hit on it, so I can retire the Impregnable Fortress ring?

 

JamesVZ

Err. Is there going to be a "Second of all..." or is this all we get?


Re: enchants, I put Mongoose on Sorthalis because it seemed like what all the cool kids were doing, but I've been seriously missing the extra 25 hit from the Accuracy enchant. I'm probably going to switch back to that for the next weapon that drops.

If you're lacking on hit, though, you might want to take a look at [Shieldwarder Girdle]. It's itemized pretty damn good, and has a boatload of hit attached to it. You'd sacrifice a rather negligible amount of avoidance and a couple hundred hitpoints for the 56 hit. It's also a great stand in if you're low on defense.

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In regards to Icecrown Radiance:

 

• Tibor

Hmm, yeah, I forgot about that belt. I guess it seems intuitively like it should be one of those shite SBR/SBV pieces. I guess the item-naming team got it mixed up with the [Dragonslayer's Brace].

 

Riot

Let's talk about Coliseum tank gear, Warriors, and badges!

After having looking over mmo's loot list and thinking about our four piece set, here are some basics I thought would be useful:

Badges
Helm - Good piece, but probably not a buy
Shoulders - Better to use tier pieces for sure
Throwing Weapon - Excellent piece to buy, but probably something to hold off on unless it's a large upgrade
Ring - Not bothering - the 10/25 mans both have a ring to be used
Trinket - Probably worth buying

Looking at offset pieces dropping in the Coliseum that match up with the set pieces we get, it appears we're getting an option of wearing leg armor or chest armor.

Having looked at the set pieces, I think the legs look weakest, so I'd probably go for that in maintaining a four piece item bonus set.

Those are just quick thoughts - have to run soon.

Overslept, / So tired. / If late, / Get fired. / Why bother? / Why the pain? / Just go home / Do it again. - The Commuter's Lament
Norman B. Colp

 

Myko

I wouldn't discard the badge ring so quickly, it's the highest ilvl ring with bonus armor currently. Also, in contrast to all bonus armor rings so far it has defense. Currently I'm in a situation where I can't equip two armor rings and stay above the crit immunity cap.

 

Suesse

Agreed. I see it as the 2nd best in slot for physical damage, after the Twin Val'kyr. If you're looking at significant magical damage components, then the hard mode ring with 116 stam + a socket is better.

I'm thinking the gloves might be a good thing to save for also; however, I would say that if you already have Freya+3 25-man down or think you might in the near future, you might pass on the tier 9 gloves at first.

 

JamesVZ

The maximum number of badges you can obtain before starting the heroic 25 man should be 152, provided each boss continues dropping 3 badges each on both 10 and 25 man versions, which means you can get at most 3 pieces of your tier set provided you buy a 50 badge ilvl 232 set piece, otherwise you can only get the head and gloves and one offset piece.

Outside of those, the only badge offset pieces worth mentioning, in my opinion at least, are the trinket, the ring and the ranged slot. 1792 armor with a clicky attached to it is going to be basically a metric shitload of mitigation against any hard hitting bosses. The ring, as was mentioned already, is the best in slot armor ring and for only 35 badges that's a pretty good steal. The ranged slot, however, is an extremely minor upgrade compared to Veranus' Bane, it will be last on my list for sure. The rest of the badge items have a superior alternative that drops I'm pretty sure.

My plan is to nab the shoulders first, then the gloves (need that two piece for the two seconds off of taunt, you know), and then the trinket before we start in on heroic modes. Once we're doing heroic I'll just have to see what has dropped at that point, and how hard the hard modes are for the ilvl 258 set pieces.

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In regards to Icecrown Radiance:

 

Fellwraith

Forget about [The Leviathan's Coil]? The badge ring is a slight upgrade from that, it's comparable to what you'll see in other slots when you upgrade from Ulduar gear.

For me, the trinket is probably the biggest initial upgrade from badges, followed by the helm. I'm still debating if the 4pc is worth it, which will influence my decision on what to buy next, helm or ring. The extra 1792 armor from the trinket is over a full percentage point of additional mitigation for me with raid buffs (even in the newer gear with higher armor values) and that's before you talk about the BiS click effect.

The tier 9 legs are a pretty big threat piece, but I doubt I'd wear them for anything other than heroics or a really harsh threat race. The alternative off Jaraxxus isn't that far behind them for threat purposes, plated saronite are still pretty close to BiS for anything that hits hard and legplates of the endless void are still the best avoidance legs you can get. If the 4pc does turn out to be useful, I'd probably use the helm before I'd use the legs. The strongest two tier pieces are the shoulders and the hands (the chest would be if Northrend beasts didn't drop an amazing piece).

The dps throwing weapon is actually pretty good for tanking if you can afford to lose the defense. The agility and the dodge rating are basically a push, you trade hit for expertise, and you lose a little bit of stamina, BV and AP. In return you get some armor pen and some crit. It's better from a threat perspective.

One other observation after looking at a lot of the pieces is that we'll probably be approaching DRs for block value's contribution to shieldslam. There's upwards of 20str increases on every single piece and a lot of pieces with bonus BV. We probably need to start thinking about BV as a mitigation stat more than a threat stat after this tier. That also changes how I look at my glyphing situation. I was debating whether or not to drop glyph of blocking, but between the 4pc bonus and the added BV, it may become quite a bit better than it was.

 

Juno

Tier shoulders were a given, and probably gloves too to get the 2set bonus. I'm contemplating whether going for the 4set bonus is worth it though. There's some really amazingly itemized chest ([Chestplate of the Towering Monstrosity]) and leggings ([Legguards of Feverish Dedication]), and I'd like the non-set helm ([Faceplate of the Honorbound]) which is a direct upgrade from [Ironbark Faceguard], I could get something like 35-40 expertise with really good non-gimmick gear. Going for 4set however would only let me use 1 expertise piece which would put me about 6-8 expertise short of dodge cap, not too great.

I have a hard-on for armor, especially on rings, but when it comes to the armor trinket I'm not sure. 1.35k-1.6k health vs 1792 armor, armor one being better for physical only bosses but when is a boss ever physical only anyway, guess it would help me more on Algalon but seems pretty limited use for 50 badges. I'd probably combo Loop of the Twin Valk'yr (10n and then later 10hardmode with same name) with [Clutch of Fortification] however.

If only the 4set was still -20sec as it was on the PTR, or we'd have T8 4set innate, then I'd sacrifice the stats and go for it instantly, but right now I'm at a total loss if I should bother or not in my general do-everything set.

 

JamesVZ

Well, the ilvl 258 tier helm is BiS by a mile it looks like, so the choice is between ilvl 258 Northrend Beasts chest or ilvl 258 Jaraxxus legs for your offset piece. Since the tier legs are the only ilvl 258 piece in ToC to have hit on them, it's an easy choice for me to make. I think the set bonus is worth giving up a few stats for, and since you're going to be wearing 3 out of the 4 pieces as BiS anyway, you might as well pick up the fourth.

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In regards to Icecrown Radiance:

 

Juno

I only counted 10man hardmode and 25man normal loot i.e max ilvl245 loot. I won't be doing 25man hardmode unless it turns out to be ridiculously easy as well. I can assume a lot of people are in the same position.

 

tehsux

Where does the Peace Keeper Blade fall into rankings on Tanking weapons? I have it and a Broken Promise, I'm defense capped so the def from BP doesnt matter...

 

JamesVZ

Broken Promise is one of the worst tanking weapons you can get as a Prot Warrior, so you could probably disenchant that and be better off for it. Peacekeeper Blade is the best you can get from a 5 man, and really the next best thing is from Kel'Thuzad.

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In regards to Icecrown Radiance:

 

Owthathurt

I wouldn't be so quick to discount the broken promise, with the changes to devastate the dps improvement you get from a slow weapon is pretty impressive, especially if you have the 2pt t8 and 9 bonuses.

Although waiting for a nice slow weapon from ToC and making up the defence elsewhere would likely give you even greater results.

I think threat wise and dps wise switching to a slow weapon and having the devastate glyph will show some nice increases to both.

 

Finkill

I will have to disagree with you on that idea.

Broken Promise was an.... ok at best item back in nax however two tiers later it has become more so useless. Mainly because GOOD warriors aren't concerned about any threat issues or at least shouldn't be on any nonbuffing dps encounter (hardmode hodir/hardmode IC/hardmode GV). Those are just examples but I think you get the idea. The stats on current faster weapons also outweigh the top end of Broken Promise from an overall avoidance and EH standpoint. EH is the best stat from a warrior tanking PoV, well that is just my opinion at least. It would be nice to actual gear discussion from current content.

Edit* to the conversation on blood draining and mongoose....

I personally find mongoose to be an overall better enchant mainly because the proc rate on it is still extremely effective and not only that it is an enchant that procs when YOU hit the boss not a proc that triggers when a boss does damage to you. Blood Draining and Blade Warding only proc when you take damage and as your gear gets better the enchant gets worse. Mongoose procs on your hits which is a much more controlling factor than the boss hitting you however the effective health that the numbers calculate can be clutch at times the uptime on mongoose I feel outweighs blood draining by a long shot. The agility not only provides a fair amount of armor with addition to 1.6% dodge and a considerable amount of burst threat. In my guilds 25 man Hardmode Twin kill the uptime on mongoose was a 1 minute 49 second uptime which converts to 30% of the total duration of the fight. Now not to mention blood draining only triggers when you drop below 35% health... which rarely happens on the majority of fights.

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Gruntle

Just wanted to point out that Blade warding procs on your hits. It's not exactly easy to model (see the tank spreadsheet thread), so I don't think anyone can say whether it's better or worse than Mongoose (although indications is that it's worse). Based on simulations I've ran, I get something an average addition of 10 parry rating (at parry rating~250, after diminishing returns) and about 15 dps. Not sure how that compares to mongoose.

 

Thorgrim

Blood Draining also stacks off of your own hits; I think the point (not that I'm sure I agree with it) was the actual effects of both are contingent on attacks against you rather than ones you make.

 

Finkill

yes that is the point I was making.

 

jozga

I'm curious about using [Forlorn Barrier] (Crystal Plated Vanguard) over [The Boreal Guard]. It's a gain of 349 armour, but a drop of 44 stamina (51 or so with mulitpliers). The dodge is equal to the parry, and I would roughly equate the str and block value as equal to the block rating - neither is especially great.

Unless I am mistaken, stamina is worth about 10-13 armour at current gear levels, so the Forlorn Barrier is a pretty clear effective health drop. It comes down to how much you value Block Value, which is my next question.

I'd generally ignore block value as pretty pointless at this stage, my gear gives ~1100, which is negligable on most Heroic content. Glyph of Blocking is looking weaker as time goes on as well, I'd consider dropping it for Last Stand or possibly Taunt - though I find it hard to drop constant mitigation (however small) for a situational bonus like Taunt, especially when Vigilance and the 2-set give you quite a lot of redundancy.

Am I undervaluing block value? I am basically writing off the T9 parts with block value (at least until Heroic versions). Is it worth dropping the block glyph? Are people switching to the Taunt glyph? Or are people using the taunt glyph like a consumable, swapping it in for specific fights? This is what I am inclined to do.

 

Stimulant1

A new upcoming change for Warrior's in 3.2.2 according to MMO Champ is:

Critical Block: This talent now grants a 20/40/60% chance to block double the normal amount instead of 10/20/30%.

How will this effect gear choices? Is this enough of a buff to pursue block value/rating more aggressively?

 

Finkill

Yes it will. With uptime on shield block with new 4 piece granted all of the tier pieces you get are at minimum the trophey pieces then the item scaling as well as overall avoidance scales higher. Also take into consideration the access to gear level you have however. If for some reason people can't get trophey pieces or token pieces then don't bother. The way the ToC gear is itemized is overall extremely f'in awful(pardon my french). There is only shield block value on a select few of the tier pieces, the helm and the pants... the pants are awful for avoidance are 100% useless to get. The EH value on them doesn't outweigh the amount of expertise you gain from the offset piece as well as the pure avoidance from parry... although parry isn't very strong it is still much better than legs with almost zero avoidance on them. The 4 pieces I would recommend using are Helm/Shoulders/Gloves/Chest and then use Legplates of the Feverish Dedication (hardmode Jax) Legplates of the Feverish Dedication as the offset item... or the nonheroic ones if you are unable to obtain those. Overall I'm fairly certain that will provide the highest level of avoidance IF you are in all 245 ilvl gear or higher. I have to go into further detail on the exact numbers for the pieces however this is just my first glance at it.

This is only when 3.2.2 takes effect however.

If anyone has any comments please let me know... my numbers aren't always correct. I'll show more exact values once I find the time to sit down and calculate them.