Jakani

Edit: removed, figured out the problem.

 

Bregonn

On the macro'ed sheet I'd put in a macro with a nice big button which does the copy-paste special. Should trigger people who don't understand it, and makes it easier for those who do.

 

todemax

The armor of bosses in the sheet is set to 12000. As far as I know, the actual value seems to be 13083. Faerie fire of course lowers this if it is assumed on.

 

Reeshet

Love the spreadsheet.

Went through and put my guy into it and was consistently coming up with spreadsheet saying I had a 683 defense rating and my paperdoll in armory saying I was at 686. But I think I see what's going on now. The GemChoices tab does not have a row for rings with slots.

I would have thought this is something others would have seen earlier since Titanium Earthguard ring is one of the best tanking rings in the game.

 

Reeshet

Also, it looks like your have the JC-only gems categorized by their "typical" color. Such that Solid Dragon's eye count as blue gems. They're actually prismatic, so they match any color as far as socket bonus is concerned.

 

Reeshet

Options tab cell number C19 (dealing with toughness talent) is basically using your "preferred" meta gem, even if you're not using a helm with a meta slot. It's referring back to cell D2 on GemChoices where you select the "auto picked" meta gem. It should probably be looking at cell P2 on GemChoices which appears to be the actual "selected" meta.

Again, this is an awesome spreadsheet. You've done amazing work.

 

illusive_2008

Not sure if your going to work in Lifeward more after it goes live. But I figured I would offer info with test done so far on PTR.

Using Last Laugh at weapon - Zero haste gear or rating.

Was 13 minutes of testing, 500 white hits , 198 ticks of rend. Only used auto attack + rend for first test.

Was listed as 41 Total procs , 3.09 PPM , 1 sec CD

It did proc back to back.

Info on healing is, average was 323 , Max heal was 356. It can crit, I have had it hit for 600+ on crit heal. Will run a few more test bearing PTR isn't take down soon tonight.

Anyways overall it seems to be around 3-4 PPM average over 1000 + swings, I ran real world test on mobs out in Icecrown before I hit the dummies just to see its use on both. Always was listed over 3 PPM alot closer to 4 PPM in first 5 minutes of the test. I do have screens of Recount + Proc meter if that info helps at all.

 

Onimoger

Nice work, really find the spreadsheet useful.

I have a few questions / observations.

The gems in a cloak seem not to be counted in the gems tab and total numbers (Stats tab).

For my gear comparison i use the following values: TTL=0.5, Burst=0.35, Threat=0.15. On a WOTLK Filler boss with parry flag set. What i find strange is that however i tweak these values it always comes out that druid items (heavy armor and dodge) come out as best (cloak, rings, trinkets). Same with enchants, armor enchants seem to be the best or close. I haven't really seen many warriors using much druid stuff, and i don't think i ever saw any warrior with an armor enchant. That leaves me rather perplexed. Is this normal and druid items > all, or i am just doing something wrong?

Also would like to get a confirmation that avoidance diminishing returns are included in the Stats tab and stat AEP value calculations.

 

Taliafears

Hey guys, just wanted to stop in and let you know I haven't stopped working on the sheet. In fact I am in the process of majorly revamping it for better organization and usability and have already incorporated the fixes mentioned in the thread.

To answer your questions onimoger, armor is a very valuable stat both for TTL and BurstTTL. I think a lot of people underestimate it. However, the next release of the sheet will reflect the 3.0.8 change where Toughness no longer applies to necks/rings/trinkets/etc, which will lower the value somewhat. (Those items are still quite valuable, though.)

The reason druid items (items without defense) rank highly is because the sheet can't adjust AEP to reflect the value of 540 defense unless you actually equip a set that doesn't meet 540. So a good rule of thumb seems to be to add 25% or so to the value that the sheet generates for defense.

And yes, diminishing returns are definitely accounted for. The sheet would be pretty worthless if they weren't.

 

Jayde

I realize that this would be a lot of work (which is why I never got around to doing it myself in my Priest spreadsheet back when I was doing the big one in TBC) but given the point you mentioned before, how difficult in your structure do you think it would be to have a differencial upgrade list in addition to the blanket list?

As you already know (in theory) from the gearlist page what is equipped in a given slot, it seems like it would be possible to check the losses vs. the gains for the defense issue (for instance) to determine the actual 'upgrade' you would get by swapping out (or not) a given slot. This sheet could also possibly always use calculated rankings to remove the copy & paste part of the process.

Just a suggestion, but obviously it could be too time-consuming to bother with.

 

Taliafears

I think for a differential upgrade list there'd have to be a macro, which I'm wary of doing, especially after this fiasco trying to get the sort button to work (it's going to be OpenOffice only from now on). But I'll give it some thought.

As for removing the copy & paste, that's part of the big revamp. As far as I know the major obstacle is the automatic gemming. Since it uses AEP to pick gems, and the gems you wear can affect AEP, the spreadsheet has a fit when you try to complete the cycle. I have decided to simply remove the automatic gemming, make the fitting room page include gems, and then I should be able to use calculated values. I'll put another row between calculated values and final, so you can type in an optional override.

 

Reeshet

This is sort of like the differential upgrade list, but might be slightly easier to implement. One of the things I'd like to know is at the gear set that I have selected, which gemmable stat (or enchantable I guess) gives me the best upgrade.

For instance, If I'm at 534 defense and 330 dodge, it should be a no brainer that defense is the best upgradeable stat. But If I'm at 550 defense and 285 dodge, is it still better? or would +12 stam be better.

Right now, I'm going through and just manually making the adjustments to gems / enchants or directly modifying the stamina / defense / dodge totals by just adding some numbers in the "human racials" cell (which is set to 0 so is easy to change back when I'm done). But it's a manual comparative process. I know there's the calculated rankings, but it's not 100% clear to me how those convert to actual stat values and doing a manual compare of actual values gives me a more detailed view on the impact of changing stats.

Edited to add my actual suggestion: What I'd like to see is just a place somewhere that says +8 defense & -8 defense and then goes through shows the actual change to your key defensive stats. Then below that +12 stam & -12 stam and all the changes for those. Repeat for each gemmable / enchantable stat. I don't know a way to actually implement this though.

 

Gamca

i had some of your previous versions and i have noticed in the last that all items with block rating, block value are far more best than others.. is that really such big advantage due to diminishing returns ? seems to me quite a lot.. ; /

*i equipped and gemmed myself in fitting room, chosen not Loatheb but that average choice etc.. weird.

 

Taliafears

That's exactly what the NxtStat system does. It adds 1 to all the different stats and compares them to what you'd get if you added 1 to armor. That's how it comes up with an AEP in the first place. If you put all your gear on in the fitting room and have 534 defense, it will show a very high AEP value for defense. If you look at the Gems sheet, it will even tell you what the best red, yellow, or blue gem happens to be.

The problem is, in order to come up with a solid recommendation between two items, you'd have to accomodate those various caps & cutoffs, so the sheet would just have to "try on" both pieces in quick succession and subtract the highly complex results. That requires a macro and I'm extremely hesitant to even try such a thing. Sheets with a bunch of macros often become inflated pieces of garbage that new users will simply reject as being much too complicated for their needs.

 

Backgoode

A few small issues I found while playing around that haven't already been mentioned:

1. Tauren base stats are slightly off. Base strength is 179 and stamina is 161.

2. As far as I can tell, vitality is applied separately to base stats and stats from gear. I'm not 100% sure on this, but changing the formulas in E36 and G36 to
gave me the same numbers as are on my character sheet. Of course, this leads to
for E37 and G37.

3. It's not possible to set the gem level to 4 without breaking the sheet (Well, I couldn't find where to modify your dropdown anyway). It's of course a small issue since if you can use prismatic gems, the best will always be 41sta.

I love the sheet and can't wait for the next update!

 

Bregonn

The totals for AEP on the Fitting Room sheet are not calculated correctly. Gems are counted twice. The AEP value from the items already includes the value from gems, and then the gems are added in again in the last line.

It doesn't seem easy to fix though. The item AEP value (in the Gearlist sheet) should include gems to be able to correctly compare gear, but the actual used gems may differ from the assumed slotted best gems. You could calculate an ungemmed AEP value per item, but then you'd have to check again if you meet the socket bonus with the actual gems.

All in all it's not a big thing because total AEP doesn't really mean a thing (it depends on the relative value of armor more than anything else) but if you're overhauling the gem selection then you might want to take a look into it.

 

Taliafears

Alright, the big release is up. Here's a woefully incomplete changelist:

- fixed a bug with NxtStat Burst calculations on bosses with MagicDPS
- changed diminishing returns miss cap to 40, no reason, just feels like it'd be closer to reality
- added Sartharion10 to boss list
- fixed a bug with crit and expertise from gems not being added to fitting room total
- slight correction to Block Value derived from Strength
- changed Draenei base strength to 175
- changed boss armor to 13083, would like more data on different values for different bosses
- updated special value of weapons to account for dwarven mace expertise
- weapons, necks, rings, capes, and trinkets are no longer modified by Toughness in 3.0.8
- Titanguard weapon enchant reduced to 50 stamina
- Titanguard weapon enchant removed
- Fixed a bug where helms with no meta gem were getting the toughness bonus if they had Austere selected
- removed some items with little current relevance
- removed many enchants that have been replaced with new versions or that are completely outpaced by current enchants
- reviewed item sources, updated in light of naxx drop schemes
- new representation for Sartharion in source column, was ObsSancXX, now SarthXX+Y, where XX is number of players and Y is minimum number of drakes required for loot to drop
- added support for gem slot in ring
- Jewelcrafter's Dragon's Eye gems now satisfy socket bonus requirements
- beginning a major reorganization of the sheet to make things cleaner and more useable
- adjusted sorting macro to only work in open office, excel users will have to download the macro-free version
- added a new column to the Gearlist sheet, BAC, for bonus armor, this is an attempt at a long term solution for toughness not applying to all armor

 

gia

Eternal Earthsiege doesn't seem to work, gives me errors all over. I'm using Open Office 3.0 if it matters. I love the sorting macro though!

There's also something wrong with the gem on my gloves, the stats don't show up and don't get counted in the totals.

 

Taliafears

Fixed and re-uploaded.

 

Ultramax

You forget to add [Greater Inscription of the Gladiator] as a shoulder enchant option.

 

• Veni

[Tempered Titansteel Helm] is also missing the sockets.

 

Jayde

I believe it recently was found here that the miss cap point was 16.

 

Taliafears

Wow, they made the blacksmith helm better than the engineering helm? Where's the love for the engineers?

Thanks a lot for the link Jayde, I was hoping someone would get around to testing that sooner or later.

 

Tyee

I'm getting only errors then i put my Trinket (Figurine - Monarch Crab) and/or Ring (Titanium Earthguard Ring) on. Maybe its because of the Sockets. I also tried Stoneguard Band and Figurine - Ruby Hare, same results. i also tried the OpenOffice and the Excel Version, same results.

 

gia

You get errors if you leave a socket empty I think, they go away when you put a gem in. Unless your problem is different