All right, I'd just like to know if I'm using the spreadsheet properly here.

I import my character using the armory, and it lists my current dps at about 8500, which I can do. If I swap all my Str gems to ArP gems the SS shows about a 50 dps increase. I make sure to run the SEP Calc before I make changes.

Now swapping my gems brings me to about 49% ArP, but I have no ArP trinket. Is it worth doing?

And a question about Execute. Does the glyph and the talent increase the amount of damage my execute will cause to be higher than my slams/HS's/etc?

Edit: Having just looked at a different spreadsheet for a different class, I'd also like to add that I greatly appreciate all of Landsoul's work for the warrior community. If I had the spare money, I'd go make a donation. For that matter, if I had ANY money.

Don't know is it's been said but when importing from the Armory, the spreadsheet imports the ilvl277 version of the t10 shoulder instead of the ilvl264. It does this only for the shoulders, as far as I've seen, but I haven't tested for pants, only gauntlets, helmet and chest.
Also, the Legplates of the Redeemed Blood Knight (Heroic) ( link ) do not get imported, when importing someone with them, I get the error that they are not supported.

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Polar Bear Claw Bracers are listed as mail instead of plate.

The shoulders bug also happen with the T9 shoulders, so it imports the 258 ones instead of 245.

However I get the impression, that this is a bug of the armory, not the SS.

I get this same bug with the T10 264 legs where it imports as the heroic (277) version.

Ok maybe someone could give me a slight hand here. SS says I should put double mongoose instead of double berserking on my mh/oh and use crit gems for yellow socket bonuses, yet, when I tried this in raid on Fester, I did 1k less dps than with Berserking arp/str gems. We had about 6 attempts before we took him down so I had plenty of testing time , maybe, perhaps, I did something wrong?

Made a few changes to the spreadsheet for Fury. WW mainhand deep wound damage was incorrect. Fixing it increases dps by 80 with my current gear.

Cell K96 changed to =L65*Q63*Q95 (=(1-N65)*L65*Q63*Q95 calc in spreadsheet was correct as Slick points out below)


Also reaction time needs to be set at 200 or lag equation needs to be fixed. It's currently shown as =(MAX(AM1-200,0)+AP1)/1000 and should instead be =AP1/1000. Lag=latency and not Reaction time -200 or zero whichever is greater + latency. So using 210 reaction and 80 latency sets lag at 0.09 seconds when it should only be latency and 0.08 seconds. So either you use 200 reaction time or change the offending cell. I instead changed the cell.

Cell N107 changed to =AP1/1000 (changed it back to how it was as it was accounting for button presses which does actually make sense)

I also wanted to check total amount of ability uses. In Misc settings you can change from default to custom and enter a duration for the fight and inc damage. Then you can manually enter how many WW, BT, Slam, Exe amounts. This didn't seem to helpful to me as rotation is dictated by when Bloodsurge procs. I instead wanted those values to automatically update after changing the fight duration. And leaving it at default. Since i could not modify those cells i added some cells below them.

H47 =G44*Q52 (this is BT amounts)
I47 =G44*Q63 (this is WW amounts)
J47 =G44*Q82*0.8 (this is slam amounts)
K47 =G44*Q82*0.2 (this is Exe amounts)

Slam amounts are at 80% and Exe amounts are 20% of Slams. So it's not 100% accurate as you may be able to weave a couple more Executes in there. It may be better just not using Exe amounts and just change J47 to =G44*Q82 Especially after obtaining 4T10 bonus. And just delete cell K47.

--The following is experimental and a work in progress.--

I wanted to check the 35 different rotations. I was curious how much dps each rotation does. Our rotation is BT,WW,wait,BT,wait,repeat. Well how much dps is it if you use zero slams. What's the dps if you use a Slam during free. What about 2 Slams or 3 Slams. What about Rend. So i added a dps total to the right side of the 35 rotations in Column AF.

Rotation 1) Cell AF 109 =((L57*T109+P69*U109+L87*V109+Y100*W109)/X109)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE109-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 2) Cell AF 110 =((L57*T110+P69*U110+L87*V110+Y100*W110)/X110)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE110-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 3) Cell AF 111 =((L57*T111+P69*U111+L87*V111+Y100*W111)/X111)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE111-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 4) Cell AF 112 =((L57*T112+P69*U112+L87*V112+Y100*W112)/X112)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE112-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 5) Cell AF 113 =((L57*T113+P69*U113+L87*V113+Y100*W113)/X113)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE113-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 6) Cell AF 114 =((L57*T114+P69*U114+L87*V114+Y100*W114)/X114)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE114-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 7) Cell AF 115 =((L57*T115+P69*U115+L87*V115+Y100*W115)/X115)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE115-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 8) Cell AF 116 =((L57*T116+P69*U116+L87*V116+Y100*W116)/X116)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE116-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 9) Cell AF 117 =((L57*T117+P69*U117+L87*V117+Y100*W117)/X117)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE117-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 10) Cell AF 118 =((L57*T118+P69*U118+L87*V118+Y100*W118)/X118)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE118-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 11) Cell AF 119 =((L57*T119+P69*U119+L87*V119+Y100*W119)/X119)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE119-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 12) Cell AF 120 =((L57*T120+P69*U120+L87*V120+Y100*W120)/X120)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE120-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 13) Cell AF 121 =((L57*T121+P69*U121+L87*V121+Y100*W121)/X121)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE121-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 14) Cell AF 122 =((L57*T122+P69*U122+L87*V122+Y100*W122)/X122)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE122-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 15) Cell AF 123 =((L57*T123+P69*U123+L87*V123+Y100*W123)/X123)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE123-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 16) Cell AF 124 =((L57*T124+P69*U124+L87*V124+Y100*W124)/X124)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE124-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 17) Cell AF 125 =((L57*T125+P69*U125+L87*V125+Y100*W125)/X125)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE125-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 18) Cell AF 126 =((L57*T126+P69*U126+L87*V126+Y100*W126)/X126)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE126-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 19) Cell AF 127 =((L57*T127+P69*U127+L87*V127+Y100*W127)/X127)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE127-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 20) Cell AF 128 =((L57*T128+P69*U128+L87*V128+Y100*W128)/X128)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE128-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 21) Cell AF 129 =((L57*T129+P69*U129+L87*V129+Y100*W129)/X129)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE129-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 22) Cell AF 130 =((L57*T130+P69*U130+L87*V130+Y100*W130)/X130)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE130-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 23) Cell AF 131 =((L57*T131+P69*U131+L87*V131+Y100*W131)/X131)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE131-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 24) Cell AF 132 =((L57*T132+P69*U132+L87*V132+Y100*W132)/X132)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE132-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 25) Cell AF 133 =((L57*T133+P69*U133+L87*V133+Y100*W133)/X133)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE133-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 26) Cell AF 134 =((L57*T134+P69*U134+L87*V134+Y100*W134)/X134)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE134-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 27) Cell AF 135 =((L57*T135+P69*U135+L87*V135+Y100*W135)/X135)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE135-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 28) Cell AF 136 =((L57*T136+P69*U136+L87*V136+Y100*W136)/X136)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE136-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 29) Cell AF 137 =((L57*T137+P69*U137+L87*V137+Y100*W137)/X137)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE137-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 30) Cell AF 138 =((L57*T138+P69*U138+L87*V138+Y100*W138)/X138)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE138-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 31) Cell AF 139 =((L57*T139+P69*U139+L87*V139+Y100*W139)/X139)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE139-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 32) Cell AF 140 =((L57*T140+P69*U140+L87*V140+Y100*W140)/X140)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE140-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 33) Cell AF 141 =((L57*T141+P69*U141+L87*V141+Y100*W141)/X141)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE141-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 34) Cell AF 142 =((L57*T142+P69*U142+L87*V142+Y100*W142)/X142)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE142-W77,1))+Q40
Rotation 35) Cell AF 143 =((L57*T143+P69*U143+L87*V143+Y100*W143)/X143)+Q36+(Q35*MIN(AE143-W77,1))+Q40

Noticed an error on the spreadsheet while checking the above. Cell V119 says 0 when it should be 1.

The accuracy of each rotation's dps is questionable. Many flaws. It's an approx value as Heroic strike freq and Deep wounds will be a bit off. Although i did try to counter HS freq by capping it at 100% and added rage slip as well. Also if you Slam more Deep wounds would proc more often. Also during Rends it looks like you may rage starve yourself. While i lowered HS use i didn't add mainhand melee damage increases. So the Rend rotations may be a bit higher than listed. Completely unsure about this.

I then wanted to check that those 35 rotations combined based on % of usage actually matches total dps of the spreadsheet. I added a cell below the 35 cells to verify.

Cell AF144 =(R109*AF109)+(R110*AF110)+(R111*AF111)+(R112*AF112)+(R113*AF113)+(R114*AF114)+(R115* AF115)+(R116*AF116)+(R117*AF117)+(R118*AF118)+(R119*AF119)+(R120*AF120)+(R121*AF121)+ (R122*AF122)+(R123*AF123)+(R124*AF124)+(R125*AF125)+(R126*AF126)+(R127*AF127)+(R128*A F128)+(R129*AF129)+(R130*AF130)+(R131*AF131)+(R132*AF132)+(R133*AF133)+(R134*AF134)+( AF135*R135)+(R136*AF136)+(R137*AF137)+(R138*AF138)+(R139*AF139)+(R140*AF140)+(R141*AF 141)+(R142*AF142)+(R143*AF143)

It appears to track within 1.5% vs spreadsheet dps values. Close enough for an approx average. Still i must say again it isn't accurate due to many factors. I may have done it completely wrong. But as i've seen no other posts about this and due to my curious nature i figured i'd give it a shot. Be it good or bad. Help in figuring a more accurate way would be appreciated.

Now to see what each rotation looks like using my current gear. With the Deep wound change and lag change. Reaction time set to 210. Latency set to 80. Duration set to 300 and incoming damage set to 1,000 per second. Spreadsheet dps total=9361

13.66%=BT,WW,Slam,BT,Slam,wait=10,047dps per rotation
17.99%=BT,WW,Slam,BT,Free,Wait=9,329dps per rotation
2.23%=BT,WW,Slam,BT,Free,Slam=9,977dps per rotation
34.90%=WW.BT,Wait,BT,Slam,Wait=9,623dps per rotation
22.58%=WW,BT,Wait,BT,Free,Wait=8,848dps per rotation
2.82%=WW,BT,Wait,BT,Free,Slam=9,555dps per rotation
0.85%=BT,WW,Slam,BT,Slam,Slam=10,323dps per rotation
4.99%=BT,WW,Wait,BT,Slam,Slam=10,047dps per rotation
100%=9486dps off by 1.34% of spreadsheet's 9361 value

With that experiment i think i can come to at least one conclusion. Instant Slam your arse off when BT or WW aren't lit up. Just be damn quick about it.

Now having done that experiment i'd like to know how much dps is actually gained by having the 4T10 bonus. So i added some more cells.

Cell AG144 =0.1366*AF121+0.1799*AF126+0.0223*AF128+0.349*AF130+0.2258*AF135+0.0282*AF137+0.0085* AF141+0.0499*AF142
Cell AH144 =AF144-AG144

Basically i swap gear for the 4T10 bonus. AG144 uses the same percentages of rotations as previously but with updated dps values. Cell AH144 is new rotations dps values minus old rotations dps values. This worked out to be 9724-9593=131dps for 4T10 vs no 4 piece bonus. Or a 1.37% gain overall if you prefer. Was kinda hoping for a bit more than that. This is not a comparison between any T9 bonus and 4T10. It just measures how helpful the new Slam proc is vs the old Slam proc. I then changed incoming damage to 0 instead of 1000 and it drops the gain to 92dps. Amazing. A 4 piece bonus worth less than 100dps.

The Main hand deep wounds formula is actually correct. You can confirm this by going to a target dummy and using Whirlwind with recklessness. There is a bug with deep wounds, (or maybe it was an intended nerf), that causes two crits that occur at the same time to override one another. What sucks about this change is if both your Whirlwinds crit, the off hand deep wounds will override your main hand causing you to have a weak deep wounds proc.

This is another fine example on why you should never sync your weapons.

Thanks Slick, that explains it nicely. So many weird bugs i can't keep track of. So it was calculating mainhand deep wound crits only when the offhand wasn't critting. Makes perfect sense now.

the loot tables for the lich king are out. all weapons. very nice looking mace from 10 man

The Lich King Loot Table, Wintergrasp Season 8

The effects of the crit cap hardly change the supriority of agility itemztion (As showen in the BiS list, preffering the leather waist over the equivlelent plate one). If aynthing, easy solution is to use [Death's Choice] insted of [Whispering Fanged Skull] which should change your crit SEP by large margin.

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Error Type: TYPO

Malevolent Girdle is listed as 60crit/33hit and B/Y sockets, for 83crit/60hit B/R sockets in game

Just made an observation of your calculation of Expertiserating. I didn't find a post in this Thread according to the Expertisecalculation, so excuse me if you already answered it.

First of all explanation of Expertiserating, if I am wrong at this point then just don't read the rest :
Expertise in WoW is calculated by the Value, not the rating. So whether you have 213 ExpertiseRating (value of 25) or 207 Expertiserating (value of 25) doesn't matter, because the dmg/dodgechance is calculated by the Value.

So what is your Spreadsheet doing?
He is calculating the Rating, not the Value. So your Spreadsheet says "207 is worse than 213". But in my opinion and what I found about Expertiserating in wowwiki etc. this just isn't true. So your Spreadsheet advices me to do the wrong things.
Example:
I have 213 Expertiserating. I need 214 to get the value of 26.
What your Spreadsheet says is, that you only need 1 Rating and the other 9 (for example a gem) are wasted. So it is better to keep 10Str+10Crit gem instead of 10Expertise+10Hit.
But this isn't true. Because you are already wasting about 7 Expertiserating because you only have a value of 25 and not a value of 25,8. So your Spreadsheet tells me the wrong amount of DPS because it includes these 7 Expertiserating but they don't have any effect. They start having an effect when you are above 214 Rating and the Value switches to 26.

As i said, if I am wrong and the calculation is done by Rating and not by Value, please correct me

Zwirni, a lot of testing has been done on this, and they all show expertise to decrease chance to be dodged based on rating, not on value as your character sheet suggests. There was alot of talk about it a long time ago, and all the tests were conclusive, it scales on rating rather than value.

This was thought true quite a while ago, until it was discovered that it was simply a tooltip issue ingame, each extra point of expertise rating does indeed count, it just doesn't show until you meet the next expertise number. Since that discovery the spreadsheet has been adjusted accordingly, but ingame tooltip remains the same. Ingame you do really only need 213 expertise rating (not 214) to cap.

I can confirm that i have tested this myself, i raided with 213 rating exactly for quite some time, not a single dodge, while raiding with slightly less (tho still shown as 25 expertise) i had the odd dodged attack here and there.

Can you show what cloak would be BIS if not for the togc 50 attempt cloak?

Should we expect any changes in the bis/hc bis list now with the lich king loot table gone live?

Without Shadowmourne you will probably go for two Glorenzelg so you don't use the tier 10 legs but the gloves.
How about Arms and p4T10, I assume it's done when it's done, right?

Thanks for this post Catch22. I found it very interesting, and would love to hear Landsoul’s comments. Some things I would like to add. You said our rotation was “BT,WW,Wait,Free,Wait – repeat.” I’m going to assume you meant “BT,WW,Wait,BT,Free,Wait – repeat” because the calculations you did were based on a derivative of the latter. As such a number of these derivatives were substantially higher in DPS. I am assuming that you did not take into 4 piece T10, because that throws a curve ball into the rotations…anyway.

What I wanted to add was I prioritized one of your rotations during our Festergut 10 man this week. The rotation was “BT,WW,Slam,BT,Slam,Wait.” Note that I only used Slam after the first WW if Bloodsurge procced before WW was off the GCD. If no Bloodsurge procs were available, I defaulted to the original rotation. I uploaded my logs to WMO and WOL and found I scored the 3rd highest warrior parse. I then looked at my number of slams in comparison to the 2 higher warriors and our fight times. The number of slams were incredibly similar, 17-19. Fight times were close, within 8 seconds, so I really wonder if these other two parses were using the same priority rotation, thus accounting for the higher slam usage as well as highest overall DPS parses.

Is this really a better rotation? What could be the issue with the spreadsheet if this is so? Why does the spreadsheet tell us “Don’t use slam past X (1.55 in my case) seconds remaining on the first BT?” Is there a problem with Catch22’s math somewhere?

Any additional information would be great to hear, thanks folks!

Link to my parse: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

You can't evaluate each rotation specifically based on it's effectiveness of DPS. Yes, if you only performed 1 rotation per fight this would be a good idea. However, you must remember that some of those periods with waiting time exist so that slams can be used in more effective places and in the specific case in the next period where a slam probably will not have been.

It is correct in the case that we should spam slam our asses off, but we are not GCD capped during our normal rotations, and we cannot use every single GCD for damage since the chance to proc BS off of a single attack or even 3 to 4 is unreliable. This phenomenon becomes moot however during execute phase, when every GCD should be used for damage in some way, since every GCD can 100% reliably be used for damage.

Are the BiS listings w/o heroic modes also not showing up for anyone else?

Wanna see with the LK loot if any changes have been made, since presumably there has been.

They arent showing because i think they havent been added yet. The same going for Fury+Shadowmourne+Orc, Also the arms BiS Listings.

We'll just have to be patient and wait for them aswell as the new spreadsheet.