Elitist Jerks Warrior DPS Calculation Spreadsheet

02/10/09, 9:38 PM   #316
nponoBegHuk
Glass Joe

Gnome Warlock

Turalyon (EU)
 Originally Posted by landsoul How would that be different than looking the bonus up on the lookup sheet? I don't think Excel can easily add a 0 value based on what color the cell is. It has to say none so it knows not to add it.

Actually it might be wise putting socket bonus logical code elsewhere, say the spreadsheet's cell N7 checks for a bonus on your helm. you might copy that code to another (hidden) location, say BA1, and change references in the sheet to that cell; and simplify the code in original N7 to be just a "visual detail" (change color on requirements met or something). Not sure how it can be done though, I'm not too good programming in excel.

Few suggestions here:
• Add "Blacksmithing" to a profession list and add a bit of code to get socket #2 on bracer and socket #3 on gloves colored as "Prismatic" or something. I understand you can add extra gems in any slot you have and they will get parsed but... this would be neat... visually
• add code to apply expertise racials upon race selection and not separately - you'll have to add WeaponType column to your weapon listing. Quite a bit of work but this would enable you to assign SEP values to weapons more precisely on Lookup page for certain races.
• add code to perform set 2pc and 4pc bonus detection automatically. Also would be nice to see something like "Set bonus SEP" calculation routine added that should help when you're not sure if upgrading to set or breaking it for superior piece of equipment really worth it (not sure if it's already implemented though but I think no)

all of these are just "cosmetic" changes and quite painful to do but... oh well.. my passion for perfection Actually I might think of few more "features" (automatic selection of best gems/enchants for selected slot, Armory import (yeah, I know it's been told already..), lookup list sorting by "equipping, gemming and comparing DPS to current"), but they are all very heavy on coding and in short terms might not be worth it (who knows however.. If only your code was more portable... )

 Originally Posted by xavier2k3 Is it just me or is there no Balanced Twilight Opal (16 AP and 12 stam) or Wicked Monarch Topaz (16ap and 8 crit)?
You should under no circumstances use neither [Balanced Twilight Opal] over [Sovereign Twilight Opal], nor [Wicked Monarch Topaz] over [Inscribed Monarch Topaz]. At least not in any situation I might think of...

Speaking of gems! There might be an easy answer to the gem selection problem. In my personal opinion, very few users of this sheet would use uncommon gems, or even epic pre-WotLK gems. Supposedly this is a tool to obtain the best DPS out of your gear and raid composition, and know what potential drop will be an "upgrade" or "bad purchase" (speaking DKP-wise). Most of people reading this would socket for best gems out there, and enchanting the most expensive enchants so there is no reason to keeping old gems as an option. A much shorter list of like 10 rare-quality gems (we all gonna socket the same 16 STR gem in 90% sockets anyway hehe) and the jewelcrafter-specific gems would be much easier to read and choose from. If you're not sure on this one just make a poll or something

Landsoul, you're doing great job on this one, keep it up!

02/10/09, 9:59 PM   #317
Whistles
Piston Honda

Gnome Rogue

Staghelm
 Originally Posted by nponoBegHuk Speaking of gems! There might be an easy answer to the gem selection problem. In my personal opinion, very few users of this sheet would use uncommon gems, or even epic pre-WotLK gems. Supposedly this is a tool to obtain the best DPS out of your gear and raid composition, and know what potential drop will be an "upgrade" or "bad purchase" (speaking DKP-wise). Most of people reading this would socket for best gems out there, and enchanting the most expensive enchants so there is no reason to keeping old gems as an option. A much shorter list of like 10 rare-quality gems (we all gonna socket the same 16 STR gem in 90% sockets anyway hehe) and the jewelcrafter-specific gems would be much easier to read and choose from. If you're not sure on this one just make a poll or something Landsoul, you're doing great job on this one, keep it up!
Seconded. If people aren't using rare quality gems or Dragon's Eye's they can always use the Phoney Stats block to fix it. Especially at this point with gems for Heroism badges there isn't really a need to keep 10/12/14 STR gems in the list (as well as every other possible combination).

02/11/09, 7:16 AM   #318
xavier2k3
Von Kaiser

Human Warrior

Kor'gall (EU)
 Originally Posted by nponoBegHuk You should under no circumstances use neither [Balanced Twilight Opal] over [Sovereign Twilight Opal], nor [Wicked Monarch Topaz] over [Inscribed Monarch Topaz]. At least not in any situation I might think of...
I'm fully aware of that. But in the chance that you do have those gems in your gear due to what was available on release and not wanting to re-gem till upgrades, it may be worthwhile for those to be there so you can see the dps increase that you'd obtain by doing so.

EDIT: Not only that but the spreadsheet of course won't be accurate in that case of course, also.

02/11/09, 12:52 PM   #319
Pogues
Von Kaiser

Frostmane
 Originally Posted by xavier2k3 I'm fully aware of that. But in the chance that you do have those gems in your gear due to what was available on release and not wanting to re-gem till upgrades, it may be worthwhile for those to be there so you can see the dps increase that you'd obtain by doing so. EDIT: Not only that but the spreadsheet of course won't be accurate in that case of course, also.
Just go to the look up screen, scroll over and down to where the Gems are listed and manually change them. It requires very little effort and no excel knowledge other than knowing how to scroll and type.

 02/12/09, 10:00 AM #320 xavier2k3 Von Kaiser   Konflict Human Warrior   Kor'gall (EU) Okay, thanks for the tip Pogues, I was unaware that you were able to do this.
 02/12/09, 12:48 PM #321 landsoul Myrmidon Champion     Landsoul Worgen Warrior   Alterac Mountains If you change them while the actual gems are equipped, you will get a group of #REF and #N/A errors. >--Coaching Site--< Private coaching / Warrior Resource >--Stream--< Tues, Wed, 7 Eastern.
 02/12/09, 3:29 PM #322 ebs2002 Von Kaiser   Ebs Orc Warrior   Sisters of Elune One thing that concerns me is the robustness of hit-rating for "best in slot" or "top-3 in slot" that this sheet gives. For instance, the sheet in a fresh download has BIS, or close to it, and yet only has 152 hit rating. Now, maybe I'm just unlucky, but I recently dropped to ~250 hit rating down from 310, due to an upgrade to the stalk-skin belt. I'm finding myself rage-starved at times, and have even noticed a dip in my DPS. And I figured I just needed to check the BiS list for where I can make up that hit rating again, and am finding myself in a situation where my hit rating will continue to dip, and not increase. I know the sheet has a mechanism for avoidance streaks, but I can't understand how BiS can have such low hit-rating and not be affected. In fact, you're stating that you think the rotation slippage may be a little too HIGH, and yet I'm still baffled at why I'm noticing a decrease in DPS when my hit has decreased while "upgrading", and that BiS sets have even less hit than me. So for now, I'm just trying to understand how this works. My observations (using default data in 2.304a): Avoidance Streaks chance is determined by your chance to miss, this math is simple. 3.37% chance for 2 misses in a row makes sense. Recovery (s): I'm taking this to assume it's how long before you recover from the miss streak, but that doesn't seem to match your calculations correctly (in this case, with two identical-speed weapons, it should just be your swing timer for double miss, and double your swing timer for a quad miss). So I'm thinking this is not what Recovery (s) denotes. Can you enlighten me?
 02/12/09, 5:22 PM #323 noxium Glass Joe   Tom Human Warrior   Tichondrius Your poor rage generation is likely due to your overall low level of gear. Also, do you have all the raid buffs in the game? Flasked/food buffed? When your overall gear is better you will have higher rage generation due to haste, damage and crit. The raid buffs provide a great buff to yourself and cause you to have higher rage generation. On the spreadsheet you might have input all your gear but left every raid buff in the game as active, when in the real world situation you didn't have them. Also, you could be heroic striking too often or not using cooldowns/rotation effectively but even if you are the other points I mentioned are enough to account for the lack of rage you have. Also, Alliance have Draenei aura (1% hit) and although the spreadsheet shows an Orc, Draenei aura is active on the sheet by default. Edit: He obtained at least 1 item and swapped gear around since last I armoried him. Raid buff and rotation comments should remain valid though. Last edited by noxium : 02/13/09 at 5:05 AM.
 02/13/09, 2:16 AM #324 landsoul Myrmidon Champion     Landsoul Worgen Warrior   Alterac Mountains His gear is not terrible. Yes he can use some upgrades here and there, but the fact is that he says is experiencing something other than what the sheet tells him. The avoidance streaks is my best shot of an estimation to try and make hit rating more worthwhile. Before it did not consider this idea, the value of hit rating was completely miniscule. I made some models using real values, and tried to determine the feasability of the outcome. I decided that the outcome was acceptable with different levels of hit and other values. I think it is acceptable to have a certain level of rage starvation. The recovery time listed is the amount of time you will be back in your normal rotation after the avoidance streak, which is proportional to your average attack rate with both weapons. I won't write out the whole thing, you can just look at what each cell references in what way. But here's an idea. $\frac{1}{\frac{1}{\text{MHavgSpd}}+\frac{1}{\text{OHavgSpd}}}$ There's a chance you will miss twice, three times, and four times in a row which are counted (1 miss is not counted) and then they are added together in a series in a way. The model is very generous (if not too generous) to hit and seems to be acceptable. Also, the ratio of offhand to main hand hits is considered, which is based directly off of your heroic strike frequency. The more Haste/Crit/AP you can get, the more often you can use heroic strike. I don't have anyone sitting next to me that gives me suggestions on how to estimate these kinds of things. I just do it and maybe someone will comment on it once in a while. Still, the calculations follow the correct trends an experienced player would expect. The only thing I can think of Cornguz, is maybe you are variably missing large raid buffs, or your not managing your rage generation correctly, or just need some upgrades. The difference is very noticable in a large upgrade over a small one as well. If you are going from [Belt of the Tortured] to [Stalk-Skin Belt] the difference may not be noticable in the game due to random variations in random events. Also, it is wrong to think that you can compare a DPS chart one day to a DPS chart to another, there must be a controlled environment and many groups of data to make any sound comparison. Many warriors don't have issues with rage generation and closing a nice rotation. Even with lower amounts of hit rating, the large amount of scaling damage being done overcomes a small slip here and there on only a fraction of their rotation. If you still have concern, maybe you can send me a PM or I can help you somehow? Last edited by landsoul : 02/13/09 at 2:21 AM. >--Coaching Site--< Private coaching / Warrior Resource >--Stream--< Tues, Wed, 7 Eastern.
02/13/09, 9:27 AM   #325
Kalroth
Great Tiger

Kalroth
Orc Warrior

No WoW Account (EU)
 Originally Posted by ebs2002 I know the sheet has a mechanism for avoidance streaks, but I can't understand how BiS can have such low hit-rating and not be affected. In fact, you're stating that you think the rotation slippage may be a little too HIGH, and yet I'm still baffled at why I'm noticing a decrease in DPS when my hit has decreased while "upgrading", and that BiS sets have even less hit than me.
Remember that it's not just hit rating that gives you more rage. All the other offensive melee stats helps generate more rage from white attacks as well. I've got a lot less hit rating than you, yet I'm almost never rage dry in raids. So replacing hit rating with any other stats wont necessarily mean that your rage generation takes a dive.

Also remember the RNG; your experience(s) are based on recent raids where you may or may not have been unlucky with your critical (white) attacks, which would affect your DPS a lot more than a few white misses. It would have been helpful with 1-2 WWS logs in order to explain the drop in DPS.

 02/14/09, 11:54 AM #326 • Rezarel Piston Honda     Rezarel Human Warrior   No WoW Account The rogues have done some more mechanics testing on their class forum showing that despite what the UI displays, the game does not truncate when it converts from expertise rating to expertise. See http://elitistjerks.com/1092985-post73.html. The discussion starts around post 64 in Retesting hit table assumptions
02/14/09, 3:13 PM   #327
Schiwing
Glass Joe

Mal'Ganis
 Originally Posted by landsoul ...and a way to organize gem selection better. If it is possible could someone help with designing an Armory Upload Macro?
When I would play my Warlock, I would use Leulier's dps spreadsheets. It currently has these two features that you are looking for; you could either get ideas by dissecting the macro code from the excel file and transpose it to your Warrior spreadsheets or get in contact with the individual that is currently keeping the file updated and have him/her further help you.

The gem selection/order works off of dps increase values.
The Armory macro works, but if a user has gear equipped that is not in the spreadsheet database there is a one-time notification pop-up per piece that is 'unsupported'; this occurs as the information is loaded from the Armory.

 02/15/09, 10:49 PM #328 furier Glass Joe   Yachirú Gnome Warrior   Grim Batol (EU) Hi! Isn't the yellow hit cap 9% and not 8% which you have writen in your spread sheet? Also, it would have been nice if somebody confirmed that the theoreticaly best gear in the spread sheet actually outputs the best dps, and is better 2 use then full T7,5 - all plate. Do you loose much from Armored to the teeth wearing lether instead of plate? And lastly iv searched the whole internet now for this word "SEP" and i cant find out what it meens. Google is useless and the search function on the forum doesnt give me anything, and no guides ever tells me what SEP meens.. :/
 02/15/09, 11:11 PM #329 illusive_2008 Glass Joe   Projecthapa Tauren Warrior   Ner'zhul It was tested and well proven to be currently 8 percent. I also believe SEP means Stat Equivalence Points and also Stat comparison - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft probably has some more information on it.
02/16/09, 12:13 AM   #330
Symphonia
Von Kaiser

Worgen Warrior

Dalvengyr
 Originally Posted by furier Hi! Isn't the yellow hit cap 9% and not 8% which you have writen in your spread sheet? Also, it would have been nice if somebody confirmed that the theoreticaly best gear in the spread sheet actually outputs the best dps, and is better 2 use then full T7,5 - all plate. Do you loose much from Armored to the teeth wearing lether instead of plate? And lastly iv searched the whole internet now for this word "SEP" and i cant find out what it meens. Google is useless and the search function on the forum doesnt give me anything, and no guides ever tells me what SEP meens.. :/
As said above, the yellow hit cap has been tested and proven to be 8%. Best in slot gear depends on preference (Hit and other rage feeding stats) and faction (Expertise racials and Draenei hit aura). From a pure theoretical and dps standpoint, the AP from AttT does not outweigh the stats of leather. SEP = Strength Equivalent Points or Stat Equivalent Points.

 Elitist Jerks Warrior DPS Calculation Spreadsheet