The sheet is not listing "best in slot" when you start it, it's showing what Landsoul was wearing at the time, it's that simple.

Psywulf, point taken. TY

Will regem for Str or maybe ArP .. after checking spreadsheet ofc.

Ah, apologies then, as a lot of the previous releases were set up with what was basically agreed to be the current BIS list, so it threw me off suddenly seeing so many drastic differences. Well, hopefully the T8.5 chest is still BIS then, otherwise I think I won't be alive after the end of the month once the hunter firing squad gets through with me.

Good work, again. You might want to point out on the frontpage that the ARP changes remove any possibility executioner will ever be a valid choice over berserking.

Got something funny going on with the spreadsheet. All my unbuffed stats are bang on aside from my crit, AP and health. All my gems, race etc are correct (I checked bazillion times because I thought I was going mad).

My AP is 72 too low, my crit is 0.13% too high and my healths way out - im at 22951 in-game but the sheet says 27485.

Any ideas ?

Not a big thing (but now I'm a little bit confused).

Doesnt Executioners uptime depends on hits per second, which depends (partic.) on hasterating (and choosen buffs a.s.o.), which can be very very different?
I'm just confused about so much SEvalue-accuracy in such a basic statement.

The unbuffed stats don't include strength of arms for the ap calculation, they are included in calculations but not for the UB ap. No idea if you changed your race to your current one which could explain the crit. Not really sure about the massive hp compared to actually in game though.

Not sure how much this impacts the spreadsheet but:

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Upcoming Jewelcrafting Change

Basically the 27 str/arp/exp gems become red gems, with a net effect of us losing out on 3 socket bonuses

Not quite, we're also losing the metagem requirements, so we're now forced to socket at least 2 blue hybrid gems. It's a pretty terrible change when considering the extra perks that other professions get besides just straight up stat bonuses, especially once epic gems become available and the JC gems don't provide the same stat bonus as they do now.

Hi I was messing around with the sheet for about an hour last night comparing my current gear and upgrades. I was getting some weird results with the SEP values of ArP mostly around .85 range, last run of the spreadsheet about two weeks ago clearly showed that ArP>STR with a SEP of around 1.2 for me.

I have grim toll, betrayer, 4/5 8.5 so far and mostly nice gear with it all currently gemmed for ArP and sitting at 46.69% ArP but with the recent ArP cap changes its showing that just strait up gemming for STR is now the best idea again... With my current ArP values I'm pretty sure I'm not going over the cap with only 1 ArP oriented trinket. I don't exactly understand why the SEP value dropped so much considering i wasn't even over the ArP cap to my understanding.

So back to gemming all strength? sigh

mh, maybe i'm wrong or understanding it wrong, but when ArP cap now is at 100% tooltip-display, then 1232 ArP rating would be enough for 100%, but (with Mjolnir equiped) in the spreadsheet the SEP for ArP is showing >1 only when i have less then 45,88% ArP (35,88% equip + 10% battlestance).
Which means that i would be capped with Mjolnir proc when i have 1109 ArP rating (90% ArP + 10% battlestance).
Since the armor penetration from battlestance isn't shown in the tooltip, i'm wondering if battlestance counts into the cap or acts like sunder and FF ? :>

Brainstorming on avoidance streaks, feel free to point out errors. Apologies ahead of time for clarity or formatting.

1. From my post a couple pages ago: "For avoidance streaks, the rage income ratio of each hand is used for determining the chance of a streak, but not its recovery time."
To fix this you could
A. increase the recovery time to wait for the OH for the time you are using HS
1/(1/MH speed + 1/OH Speed), shouldn't it be 1/ ( 1/MH speed * MH ratio + 1/OH speed * OH ratio)
B. add the chance of a HS into the chance of the streak, since you are not gaining rage even if it lands (I think?)

2. Why isnt there a single avoidance streak slip product? One hand cannot sustain the rotation, especially since the avg swing speed is longer than a GCD. For me that would be 15.6% chance and .517s recovery for ~8% slip. Would this be solved by anything in my first point?

3. Completely remodeling avoidance: Replace slip with the chance of getting enough rage for abilities within the last GCD, plus an average of unused rage from other GCDs.

4. Drawing a blank on my statistics, but I think you can find the probability of having enough rage to sustain the rotation(16 seconds probably). Find the chance that: (MH swing/rotation * rage/MH swing + OH swg/rot * rage/OH swg)*(1-avoidance) >= rage needed/rotation. If you can find that you can also find the chance of getting >100 rage. I am unsure if HS frequency could be found the same way as HS/rotation isn't a discrete number.


PS. For the the 3.0 of the sheet, I think it would be worthwhile to expand a lot of formulas out from single cells.

Edit: I can confirm that the rage formula on live does not match the formulas given to us by Kalgan for f = 3.5 or 2.5. Rage is 70-80% of expected.

I just noticed in the sheet [Girdle of Razuvious] has 88 stamina instead of 85
And [Clockwork Legplates] have 2064 armor instead of 2054.

I checked why health and armor values didnt match and found out why

What people tend to forget is that the sheet doesn't model execute at all.
If you use execute under 20% boss health instead of heroic strike, hs percentage compared to white damage percentage drops significantly.

The current version of the spreadsheet tells me the following percentages:
17.08% of damage is white hit
28.54% of damage is heroic strike

If you keep in mind execute and that the spreadsheet models perfect play, those numbers seem very accurate to me.

I´m really confused about the new Spreadsheet i downloaded.In the Old Spread it was ArP>Str when you got enough passive ArP..not in the new one it is Str>ArP..and there are just Naxx25/Malygos25 Items used inclusive Betrayer of Humanity?!Did i miss something?Or why the change in 2 days..I´m really confused!

Just gonna comment on 3 and 4 on this as a whole topic.

The problem with finding that probability is that we still need to know the distribution of rage generation in the trailing x seconds. For flurry uptime, flurry procs are a Poisson process that we model as an exponential distribution. Flurry procs are independent, continuous, and occur on an average rate over a period of time. Flurry uptime is just modeled by the CDF function of an exponential distribution. We can't apply the same stochastic process to rage generation because it does not consist of independent events and is definitely not a Poisson process. It's definitely not a normal distribution either unless we sample a lot and apply CLT to it, which is just as problematic as the current system.

Landsoul is obviously going to have to add to the list of changes every update whether or not this time the sheet will start out with the "best in slot" setup, or if he simply loaded what he had on at the time. I don't understand why it's so hard for anyone to actually look at the sheet themselves, swap items around, calculate SEP and see what results they get instead of just expecting "a list of all the gear you need to grab!".

[Choker of the Abyss] is missing

(GENERAL VEZAX 10)

My thinking was that white swings, as far as the sheet cares, are independent, continuous, and occur at an average rate (assuming I am not misremembering my stats terminology, which I might be). Each weapon has a constant swing speed, chance to miss, and I think we can abstract rage/hit to a constant for this purpose anyway. Is this not enough to get a working, if crude, equation for the probability of having over/under x rage for a time period?

If I got all this wrong, what type of model would be correct? Even if its impractical to work into the sheet I'd like to know for my own knowledge.

The rage income ratio between different hands is not taken into account when calculating recovery time because I am assuming you are stopping heroic strike, and getting the rage you need to resume your rotation from a single attack from either hand. This is very generous of course and there's got to be a better way to do it, but I'm not for just throwing stuff around that doesn't make more sense than how it's already done.

Point 1 is out of the questions since I'm gonna stop heroic striking when I think I am getting into rage trouble.
Point 2 is very valid, however. The problem is that standard rage management practice will allow you to recover from most single avoidance happenings. Yes one hand cannot sustain the rotation if it misses, but again I am assuming that a main hand white attack will be thrown in during the recovery time.

Point 3 is also very valid, but the spreadsheet is living in a vacuum, and it kind of goes both ways on the low and high rage spectrum. How do you model going over 100 rage and losing that rage? How do you model the chance of having low rage at a busy point in your rotation compared to a non-busy point? How do you un-vacuum the problem? That seems very potentially chaotic to me.

Point 4 is getting somewhere, but again you are discounting the idea that most of the potential rage you get is used on heroic strike. It's like saying, what is the chance of going over 100 rage using 3 BT, 2 WW per 16 seconds and an indeterminate amount of heroic strikes? When you play, you use rage management to judge how many heroics you can do within each second period. The sheet really tells you how much you can potentially do when in a vacuum and have a -200 to 200 rage bar.

I think this may be that we have a different interpretation of how HS works into a rotation, play style difference maybe. I find that for missed swings to cause slip in my rotation, it is usually directly after a HS. I noticed this whole thing when I was playing around with the sheet with DW up and HS was slip limited. It seemed odd that using HS 98% of the time the recovery time did not change.

I can understand how a player might throttle back HS if they feel they are getting low rage, say a streak of no crits. But the sheet doesn't model that, the formulas are for misses that cause the whole rotation to slip, and recover over a much shorter period of time than 'rage trouble'. My main problem is that I do not understand how you can assume to have stopped HS in a recovery period that is less than the time of one MH swing.

Now that I think about it, a possible solution would be to have the main rotation and HS% have separate slip values. Or it could be more of a headache than 3 and 4...

I agree with pretty much everything on 3 and 4. They are just brainstorm ideas that weren't fleshed out (or even know if they work) for putting in the sheet now. But hopefully its a start of something that will work later.