One aspect of the spread sheet continues to confuse me. I constantly hear "cap your hit rate above all else as an Arms warrior"! Currently, I am not hit capped and replacing +16 Str with +16 Hit gems reduces my DPS in the calculations. This would imply that hit cap is less important than the AP the +16 Str gems provide. One other option is to pull the 1 point out of Juggernaut since the nerf and put it into Precision. The +Hit Chance of 1% has a significant impact on the DPS calculation.
My thinking was that white swings, as far as the sheet cares, are independent, continuous, and occur at an average rate (assuming I am not misremembering my stats terminology, which I might be). Each weapon has a constant swing speed, chance to miss, and I think we can abstract rage/hit to a constant for this purpose anyway. Is this not enough to get a working, if crude, equation for the probability of having over/under x rage for a time period?
If I got all this wrong, what type of model would be correct? Even if its impractical to work into the sheet I'd like to know for my own knowledge.
Whether a swing is a hit or crit is an independent process (because we assume uptime is close enough 100% and that the number of swings in the trailing period is fairly constant) but I don't rage generation is; if one swing crits for above above average damage/rage, the next one is likely to do so as well (because it was probably because of a proc, etc.) If we were modeling purely white swings with the same constant hit size, then it would be very simple to figure out how to approximate it. But stuff like DW/Berserking/T7/T8 all offer further confounding factors that are difficult to assume out.
Honestly, most of the modeling work in real life is pretty much "run empirical tests to see what matches the data." I personally don't have much experience doing that but I think a distribution like the Beta one, or its derivative PERT-CPM, can be used to see if a) enough rage or b) not enough rage.PERT-CPM is parameterized by the mean value, worst case, and best case and it's been used in project management/operations. Someone is just going to have to sample rage generation and see how the resulting distribution looks.
One aspect of the spread sheet continues to confuse me. I constantly hear "cap your hit rate above all else as an Arms warrior"! Currently, I am not hit capped and replacing +16 Str with +16 Hit gems reduces my DPS in the calculations. This would imply that hit cap is less important than the AP the +16 Str gems provide. One other option is to pull the 1 point out of Juggernaut since the nerf and put it into Precision. The +Hit Chance of 1% has a significant impact on the DPS calculation.
You cannot possibly get Precision as Arms because it is a tier 5 talent. Going deep enough into Fury to get it would mean losing Bladestorm. I would venture to guess that your results with the spreadsheet are due to the fact that you have Heroic Presence checked in the list of buffs, and thus you are actually above the hit cap with it.
You cannot possibly get Precision as Arms because it is a tier 5 talent. Going deep enough into Fury to get it would mean losing Bladestorm. I would venture to guess that your results with the spreadsheet are due to the fact that you have Heroic Presence checked in the list of buffs, and thus you are actually above the hit cap with it.
I didnt catch the inability to get Precision, thanks. The only buff I currently have selected is Improved BS which does not appear to impact hit cap. The current calculation shows the Miss % at 2.14%. Trading +16 Hit for +16 Str is almost a wash in the DPS calculations. I am inclined to leave it alone because in most raid situations other buffs will come into play including Heroic Presence. I suspect I am better off assuming raid buffs will address the issue. In both a 10 man Ulduar and 25 man Naxx the recount data implies virtually no misses and very few glancing blows.
@landsoul: Perhaps you should make a checkbox for switching between eu.wowarmory.com and wowarmory.com, as the former programmer of this feature did, it would be appreciated.
Just to make things clear, you should aim for 40%~ ArP from gear/gems (+10% from battlestance) Making you sit with 50% passive ArP + Grim Toll or Runestone giving you about 100% ArP on proc right? Then it's back to STR > all?
Ya I would love to see the numbers on the difference between stacking full armorpen with no trinkets and only going to 46%~ armorpen and using mjonir.
I dont have near the armor pen to check this out.
Im def. thinking it will be better to stack full armorpen with mjnor(even with full armorpen stacking you are only at 74%~) because the only other option really is wrathstone or dark matter
Ya I would love to see the numbers on the difference between stacking full armorpen with no trinkets and only going to 46%~ armorpen and using mjonir.
I dont have near the armor pen to check this out.
Im def. thinking it will be better to stack full armorpen with mjnor(even with full armorpen stacking you are only at 74%~) because the only other option really is wrathstone or dark matter
It's not hard to use the sheet to see for yourself, but as an Undead Warrior I get 6801 dps using best in slot items and str gems, since at that point you've reached the 100% arp cap with mjolnir proc up.
Using Dark Matter and the same item loadout stacking arp I get about 6703 dps
It's not hard to use the sheet to see for yourself, but as an Undead Warrior I get 6801 dps using best in slot items and str gems, since at that point you've reached the 100% arp cap with mjolnir proc up.
Using Dark Matter and the same item loadout stacking arp I get about 6703 dps
Ive seen what the sheet says, but I dont know what would actually be best in realworld fights. Like ulduar you are constantly moving and getting a trinket to proc at the right time would be tough. So im personally thinking the static armorpen would be better.
If you're like me and only wear plate, it's best to stack as much passive Arp and use no Arp trinkets as an Arms warrior.
I concur.
That approach is even more viable if you had no luck in having Lotrafen drop. Using the Yogg Mace and ArP food my passive ArP rating is at 81% currently. Once I have some slots filled with further ArP gear (cloak, ring, girdle and wrist) I should be north of 95%. Even with Lotrafen (swapping mace spec with the better axe spec in the process) something like 90% of passive ArP is a real possibility.
While wrath stone might be < Mjolnir, it has the added benefit of being usable on demand and not depending on a proc.
Why is that George? There is not enough passive penetration on gear and not enough gem slots to get high enough where not using Mjolnir is better. This is assuming you are going to use Axes instead of Maces, since Axes are better.
Well, I'm getting 6813dps stacking arp(80%+arp) and 6795 geming str as alliance human with bs/jc.
Going ArP way is the hardest chose hence you need almost current endgame items to beat Mjolnir value.
By spreadsheet dps difference, as you see, ain't that big and its more easily to folow str "path". Thats for Arms spec.
One aspect of the spread sheet continues to confuse me. I constantly hear "cap your hit rate above all else as an Arms warrior"! Currently, I am not hit capped and replacing +16 Str with +16 Hit gems reduces my DPS in the calculations. This would imply that hit cap is less important than the AP the +16 Str gems provide. One other option is to pull the 1 point out of Juggernaut since the nerf and put it into Precision. The +Hit Chance of 1% has a significant impact on the DPS calculation.
"Capping something above evything else" is in my opinion oversimplification. Optimisation is not easy like that, and it should always be checked first what are the trade-offs of "going for cap at all cost".
In your case I believe that simply +16str is more DPS than +16hit even while being below hit cap, and it's nothing strange really - with future gear changes/upgrades it can change to be the other way.
Why is that George? There is not enough passive penetration on gear and not enough gem slots to get high enough where not using Mjolnir is better. This is assuming you are going to use Axes instead of Maces, since Axes are better.
I was thinking down the road. Maybe I shouldn't make assumptions, but I have to plan my gear around what I think will end up happening. I honestly think the disparity between weapon specs will be changed sometime soon making both Mace & Swords a lot more viable. With Mace spec & BiS plate you can get right up to 100% passive armor penetration where the value of armor pen is extremely high leading up to the cap. Greatness + Dark Matter right now with a passive 100% armor pen set up would be really good for Arms, but you just know Algalon 25 has a physical DPS trinket which gives us even better options to move away from Mjolnir.
Right now I'm trying to get the Earthshaper as I foresee this happening and see the Earthshaper as a very valuable future Arms weapons. Even right now it's a small upgrade over the BoH for me according to the spreadsheet. I also really hope Algalon 25 has a 2H mace
What I'm curious about now though is, with those shoulders from 10 man Algalon, in a 100% passive armor penetration plate set up, would it be more ideal to move away from the 4 piece bonus?
After playing with the spreadsheet for a little and taking those new shoulders from Algalon 10 into consideration, I got over 99% passive armor penetration with BiS arp plate items. If I was a JC instead of an enchanter, I could get over 100%. Again, this isn't the direction I'll be going in yet, but I could see it being the future BiS plate set up for Arms with the upcoming warrior changes in the next minor patch and/or major patch (3.2). However, Algalon's loot table in the 25 man could very well change my prediction.
05/24/09, 6:28 AM
Similar Threads
