I am a little confused right now, Please help! I just realized I have been using the older spreadsheet because I had both on my desktop for some reason. I put in my current gear in which I was stacking alot of armor pen, it was at 1.3SEP roughly for me, now after the newest spreadsheet it is at ~.93 which is a little confusing but I understand because of the ArP cap.

Should I attempt to regem to achieve the 100% armor pen cap when trinkets are active before gemming back to strength? Or should I gem back to strength regardless and let the grim toll or mjollnir do its job without it?

Also Can someone give me the precise calculations at which armor pen caps with grim toll or mjollnir? (With an Axe)

I get my furious weapon tomorrow and I was going to gem it with armor pen, now I am not so sure. Please help!

Edit: I am arms.

Tengarez I can only recommend playing around with your gear and various gem setups in the spreadsheet. Personally I'm using Grim Toll an a lot of ArP gems, but not in all slots, simply because there is no point in going over the cap when Grim Toll (or Mjolnir Runestone if you have that) procs. Keep in mind I raid primarily as fury. As arms, you need even less passive ArP, and thus will need to gem even less for it. Probably very little.

If you spend the time, and play around with various setups in the spreadsheet, and go for whatever yeild most DPS, you should be in the clear. I always download the newest spreadsheet, and import my gear into it. I then play around with gems, usually saving both a Str and an ArP setup, sometimes playing with hit and expertise, even crit, too. That way I find out what should theoretically yield me the most DPS, and so far, the spreadsheet has not failed me at all.

Its an excellent tool, but requires some work on your end if you want to benefit fully from it.

PS: Remember to select correct race, buffs, set bonuses and so forth according to what matches your raid/character setup in the spreadsheet.

Well i'm glad i sparked some interest in rage generation. So looking back. Rage generation was changed. Kalgon posted a new formula. There was testing during that time on the PTR. Testing showed rage generation for offhand crits were giving 75% of the rage compared to prechange. Which is actually a nerf and not a buff. Which is actually counter to what Kalgon posted. Unless i misread what he wrote. So i'd question that posted math as well. Even if it was correct at the time. maybe it was changed again. The correct previously stated answer is to actually do more testing. So i'm happy to see i'm not the only dude making out with this dummy.

Weird you got 3 rage for a dodge Landsoul and i got 6. Now try it with all your gear on and a beefier weapon vs the heroic dummy and see if you get 6 this time. You may or may not. My results using my L30 gear and epic gear just ended up confusing and frustrating me. I think i edited my results 3 times. Damn the dodges and glancing blows from my fist screwing up everything. Until i can actually track rage correctly i'm taking a break. Spending way to much time getting to know this dummy. She's not worth it.

And i do agree there does need to be some way to model misses and or recovery time for HS use better. I've already tried about 6 different ways and they all failed. But only a few were actually too chaotic. So i do really think it's possible. I just don't have the know how to implement it correctly. So don't give up. Keep posting your ideas and thoughts. We'd never get an answer without trying.

So i'm encouraged by the posts and the interest. Keep brainstorming dudes.

And thanks Landsoul for looking. finding and correcting your spreadsheet. I lost 235dps vs previous update. This is getting a lot closer to in game results. Anything to further improve this is greatly appreciated. Figure i need to loose a few hundred more.

You mean the old 2.5 -> 3.5 or something recent I missed?

In my brief testing I was able to get 5-10 rage for dodges and parries. I was testing various weapons though and didn't note what I was using for each, but I think it might have to do with 1H vs 2H weapons, or possibly 1 weapon vs DW.

But right now we know they either broke something or changed the rage formula and didn't tell anyone, not sure which is worse.

The same one Landsoul posted is what i was referring to..

As for avoidance streaks. We pretty much try to Heroic every time we think we can get away with it. Here's the problem though. BT and WW are coming off cooldown at close to the same time. Using those 2 abilities will cost 55 rage. Using a Heroic Strike will cost me another 12 for 67 rage total. Now if i have 60 rage i usually hit HS during this period. BT+HS=42 rage. I have 18 rage left over. If my offhand misses i won't have enough rage for my Ww. So avoidance doesn't just effect HS use. It can effect your normal rotation as well.

Now let's try the same example. But let's say my offhand doesn't miss. I had 60 rage. I used BT and HS and have 18 rage left. Offhand hits and i get 15 rage for 33 rage total. I use Ww and have 3 rage left over. I cannot HS again as i don't have enough rage. I now need either a mainhand hit or another offhand hit. If i'm waiting on the offhand hit it may be out of sync with my mainhand. So it's possible i can HS my next mainhand swing. My mainhand's adjusted swing speed is 2.0339 and my offhand is 2.0937. So it is possible my offhand is out of sync enough to where it can hit and i can quickly que up a HS before my Mainhand lands. But reaction time and watching rage during this is the most crucial part of a warriors rotation. You have to be damn fast. 450ms is the average reaction time plus say 200ms latency is 650ms right there lost. Let's say you can do this 50% of the time due to this. Now for the other 50%. You will have to wait for a mainhand hit. So your next HS will be 4.0678. So best case i'd say 1.04685 on average and worse case 4.04685. Since i figured them at 50% that's 2.54685 average recovery time. Now if you're a robot call it 650ms for fastest time based on reaction time and latency. This puts offhand hitting at about 70% of the time in which you have enough time to react to it. 30% of the time is which you can't. That averages to 1.06517. Now factor in the miss rate for increased avoidance streaks. A double would then be 1.58112. However see changes below. Spreadsheet shows 1.03166 for a double avoidance. I'm actually more concerned about the first one and the examples i've tried to lay out.

I think your doubles, triples, and quads are wrong. You're treating a mainhand and offhand the same. You need to treat the Mainhand as the one that Heroic strikes. So if the mainhand misses you now have to wait it's full mainhand speed and not how it's currently shown. If it was a BT or WW the way it currently is would work. But since it's HS on next swing this needs to be changed. So based on this i think it should look like this. But see my final comment.

Double==(H56)
Triple==(H56)+(H57/2)
Quadruple==(2*H56)

or is it

Double==(2*H56)
Triple==(2*H56)+(H57/2)
Quadruple==(3*H56)

Hm not sure which of the 2 is right. I used the top one for the results below. Think about both though. I'm to tired to figure it out. Basically a double means your offhand and main hand both missed. Time between HS hits would be mainhand weapon speed*2. But since it only screwed up 1 HS rotation it's probably the top one.

Now based on rage and our only being able to hit 100 rage with 16% miss rate and bearing in mind the examples i get at most 95.75% HS usage with 7k dps gear. Because i could never exceed 95.75% i then added +(AH31*.25) to cell AB51 equation. With my gear it shows i do 5686dps with 93.40% HS usage. After doing the changes per my last example and based on Max HS usage as i just showed i get 5427dps with 86.01% HS usage. And i still think that's a bit high. But i can't really justify dropping it any lower than that. The doubles, triples and quads need changed. The added equation in cell AB51 is a fudge number. It's what i came up with based on speculation of paragraphs 2 and 3 with 16% miss. A number doesn't have to go there if you disagree with the examples i've set forth. You may arrive at a different result. Or a better place for it. But if you think about it, it does make sense. It's basically saying 25% of the time you miss you run into rage problems. With 16% hit that's 4% of the time. This would explain why hit decreases the chance for this to happen. It explains why hit feels better for rage generation. While a difference in 1% hit you won't feel. A difference by 4% hit you would feel. This more closely matches my in game experience anyways.

Just food for thought here. Maybe you can make something work out of this meandering.

Hm rethinking the doubles etc. Offhand hit may get you the rage. However it can't decrease the time between HS usage. I think this would be more accurate.

Double==H56
Triple==H56*2
Quadruple==H56*2

Think about it. Although this isn't really fair. As this avoidance streak effects not just HS so skews everything up. Probably best just to make a new table with just HS avoidance streaks as above table. Leave the current one the way it is for all other abilities.

I am not quite sure about this.From all tests I've run with the spreadsheet,especialy on arms,passive armor pen wins with ease.On my tests I have about 70-77% passive and swap GT with Wrathstone and it yields about 20-30 more dps.Also,remember that the value given when GT is equiped takes in consideration a somehow constant proc;doesnt read it as a 10sec duration with 45 ICD.As for fury,you need about 50%armor pen and your trinket proc,after that you gem for str only,as,due to stance multiplier,becomes far more benefitial.

[EDIT]:If someone has any data to back up the oposite,please post so;I believe that noone should be 100% sure about tests he runs on his own due to possible miscalculations and errors that might occure.

Armor penetration trinkets are calculated not as a constant partial procs anymore. They are treated as full procs part of the time. I changed it specifically to that a few weeks ago, if you actually read the changes.

On differing tables for avoidance slippage for rotational abilities and heroic strike I might be willing to do. I do definitely agree that the avoidance table is some kind of fudge estimation, but it served its purpose for the time to bump up hit rating a little more and tone down the overly perfect robot DPS. I do read constructive posts so please keep them coming.

Hi,

I just wanted to point out that the 84 crit rating bonus of the Gnomish Lightning Generator isn't there in the lookup tab.

Hope that help for further version of the Spreadsheet.

This is related to what I have been trying to get at for a few pages. But again your HS% would still affect the recovery time of your main cycle, for the same reasons as HS avoidance streaks. The example in the first paragraph is an example of why the current one needs to be changed in addition to a new table.

I've been experimenting with the spreadsheet trying to see how much dps i could gain by mix and matching ulduar 25 plate (don't use leather since i don't like it and my guildies would kill me :P) without requiring hard modes which are far from my reach.

So far i've managed 6142dps (Arms Spec) but it seems i can't really replace anything else without losing dps, I was wondering if anyone could give me some sugestions to go higher then that.

Currrent gear (all gemed with str except 1):
Conqueror's Siegebreaker Helmet
Insurmountable Fervor
Valorous Dreadnaught Shoulderplates
Drape of the Drakerider
Conqueror's Siegebreaker Battleplate
Bracers of Unrelenting Attack
Crude Discolored Battlegrips
Girdle of Embers
Valorous Dreadnaught Legplates
Melancholy Sabatons
Cindershard Ring
Godbane Signet
Grim Toll
Darkmoon Card: Greatness
Lotrafen, Spear of the Damned
None
Envoy of Mortality


Also a request to Landsoul, would it be possible to add a Filter to lookup tab so I can filter out mail and leather? I don't think i'm alone in just wanting to use plate (not the best for dps but does reduce guild drama).

I am getting a error on load of the sheet:

Microsoft Excel cannot calculate a formula

Cell references in the formula refer to the formula's result, creating a circular reference try

From what I see it Bloodsure total and total % that have a error

I am running a up to date mac os x 10,5,7 and Excel 2008 for mac version 12,1,7

Is there some thing I am doing wrong or what should I do to fix it.

Note all previous version worked fine.

That's been posted like 8 times already. Anyways, I tested the rage gen formula and found this accurate on all counts in all tests:


f=1.75,3.5,7 for offhand hit, offhand crit/main hand hit, main hand crit
s=base weapon speed
c=320.6
d=damage done

Previously the coefficient in front was 1/2, so this solves the over-representation of HS in the sheet very well and we will see an update soon when I get new rotation combinations working.

So we had a stealthnerf in rage generation by 0.125%?

25%

Hey.
First of all, thanks alot Landsoul for all your work on the spreadsheets over the years
I just have a small problem. When i try and import my char into the spreadsheet i get this error:
"The server name or adress could not be resolved"

The EU armory is up and running and the link is correct. If i hit the troubleshoot button i get thrown to the following text in visual basic:

Function GetSingleDataXLS(url, searchterm)
Set objXMLHTTP = CreateObject("MSXML2.ServerXMLHTTP.3.0")
objXMLHTTP.Open "GET", url, False
objXMLHTTP.SetRequestHeader "User-Agent", "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070515 Firefox/2.0.0.4"
objXMLHTTP.SetRequestHeader "Content-Type", "text/xml"
objXMLHTTP.SetRequestHeader "Accept-Language", "en"
objXMLHTTP.Send ""
Set xmlPG = objXMLHTTP.responseXML 'Get the XML in xmlPg

If xmlPG Is Nothing Or xmlPG.DocumentElement Is Nothing Then
Set GetSingleDataXLS = Nothing
Else
Set GetSingleDataXLS = xmlPG.DocumentElement.SelectSingleNode(searchterm)
End If
Set objXMLHTTP = Nothing
Set xmlPG = Nothing
End Function

with the bold/underlined part being highlighted as it is here. Any ideas whats wrong?
Thanks alot

badscooter, are you at work or something? you are perhaps running behind a proxy to get internet access.

that specific line is going to get the data from armory about your char, and sadly excel does not use the default proxy from IE to get data, so perhaps you should try on other computer with direct internet access.

cheers

Dear Landsoul,

First, great work. Your spreadsheet is an invaluable tool for me on so many levels.

Suggestion for the Lookup Tab:

1. Add Column(s) for Instance & Boss. Or add links to wowhead.com. Or both. I would volunteer to do the leg work on this.

2. Add Custom Views and a drowpdown with VB code to change views. The idea here is, I have the spreadsheet up when I'm in game. And when it comes to making /roll decisions on loot, I lookup the rankings. Because I have to scroll left and right, this is difficult and time consuming. Someway is needed to go straight to the Chests for example without scrolling. This could be done using custom views in Excel. And dropdown with the name of each type of gear with code OnChange method that changes the view.

Arms DPS Tab suggestions:

I outperform these numbers drastically. By 600 dps or so in a combination of Naxx 10/25/T7 gear (I have no T7.5 or higher and my weapon is Claymore of Ancient Power). And I think it's cause I use a different rotation - one which I researched on these forums.

My rotation is Charge, Victory Rush (if up), Mortal Strike (see Juggernaut 25% to Crit - used to be 100%), Rend (for Taste for Blood procs - then refresh every 21sec). Then I switch to a priority system based on your spreadsheet data in cells AK64:AM67 & AK47:AP50 - Overpower > Execute > Bladestorm > Mortal Strike > Slam. I do not use Heroic Strike (and therefore do not carry the talent & glyph). I use Mortal Strike for my rage dump ahead of Slam when I'm above 50 rage. Then, if everything is on cooldown - I use Bladestorm. I always try to make sure my rage is low before I go into a bladestorm because it generates a lot of rage at the end. So, usually - if everything is on CD (OP & Execute), I Slam until the next Mortal Strike is up (and do any OP & Executes that proc again - which might delay my bladestorm for several cooldowns), then do Bladestorm, then do Mortal Strike right after to dump some rage (although I depending on when OP & Execute proc in the bladestorm, I might do them first to make sure I don't loose the proc).

Anyway, your spreadsheet currently contributes 40dps from Heroic Strike which I do not use and more importantly 0 from Whirlwind - which are the base attacks for Bladestorm - 1 WW every second for the next 6 seconds.

Thanks,

Elfstrom - The Scryers - US

I searched briefly but couldn't find anything so I'll ask. I seem to recall Landsoul and perhaps another mentioning gaining rage on dodge/parries while you were investigating the inconsistencies of the spreadsheet and its Heroic Strike usage compared to live realms. Did you ever find out more about that? Maybe I'm completely daft and that's something that was introduced a while ago.. I don't think so but if that's the case sorry :x

Also I've been trying to test the frequency of Deep Wounds "munching" and how weapon speed effects it. I really cant think of a way to make the tests more accurate. All weapon speeds are only made to a tenth of a second which appears to be "enough" of a time difference to make it a non-issue. So I would assume that the problem lies with attacks landing within 0-0.1 seconds of each other. I dont know how to frequently and consistently get attacks off in a smaller time frame. Any suggestions?

Its been mentioned and noted by several people, but I don't think there is much testing on that portion yet. It would probably be covered in the Rage generation thread.


Is there any way to, or plans to add a way, to change the rotation or priorities the sheet uses? I don't understand how the blue zones at the bottom of the dps pages work or see anything editable about them, user or otherwise.

Thank you for your great work Landsoul


I have a little list:
1)
It would be great if you can add at the Top more Informations,.. so everybody can see the percentage and the rating
Hit% | Hitrating / Haste% | Hastrating
Arp% | Arprating / WKvalue | Wkrating

2)
You had colored the socket places or changed the color of the SEP font. So it would be nice if you color the cells green/red or change the font color if a cap reached for Hit /Wk. For Arp yellow with trinket the cap is reached, and red if you get it out of gear without procs.

3)
Maybee it would be nice, if you can add next to the cells of the T-Set bon 2er/4er a Cell with the SEP or DPS the Bonus can give for the equiped gear. So it would be easier to compare Items.

4)
I had a Problem for import my gear by amory the 20str Gem don't be found. (.eu-import it could be a problem spelling i think)

Since no one has already said it, if you are Arms and would like to model the upcoming change to Blood Frenzy to see how it affects your DPS, simply click on cell H62 or I62 and in the formula bar at the top of the screen, change the formula from to This will up the passive haste given by Blood Frenzy from 3%/6% to 5%/10%. I went from 5770 modeled DPS to 5837. Neat.

Adding the reduced cost and cooldown to Blood Thirst would require a but more work, namely manually moving the locations of Blood Thirst to the correct GCD usage positions. It's simple but time consuming. I don't play Fury so I'll let someone else have fun with that.

Thanks for all the work that you do to maintain the spreadsheet, been using it for a long time and it has been an excellent tool.

I noticed that [Fluxing Energy Coils] were not in the spreadsheet as an option when they dropped in our recent XT-002 10 man hard mode kill. They seem viable, I'd like to see how they stack against other options.