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05/05/09, 5:56 AM
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#736
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Glass Joe
Tauren Warrior
Magtheridon
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Originally Posted by Ticon
Really, changing gems manually everytime you change an item piece it's extremely troublesome, makes it much harder to find optimal setups because 90% of the time is spent on changing gems.
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I find it hard to believe clicking one cell and changing its value takes 90% of the time. If the issue is that much of a problem to you, why don't you go fix it yourself?
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05/05/09, 5:59 AM
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#737
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Glass Joe
Ticon
Murloc Warrior
No WoW Account
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Hehe funny, I try to help landsoul to improve the spreadsheet and I get flamed, go ahead and keep changing the cells manually.
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05/05/09, 10:54 AM
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#738
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Glass Joe
Draenei Warrior
Die Silberne Hand (EU)
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I looked over all items under Helm, Neck, Shoulder, Cape, Chest and Bracer.
No guarantee that I found everything! 
I know that some mistakes already were posted here.
More to come! But that's enougth for today.
Helm
Neck
Shoulder
Cape
Chest
Couldn't find Drakeheart Chestguard. Could be [Darkheart Chestguard], has same stats but is leather. If that's the case, then this item is two times in the table now!
Bracer
Armbands of Bedlam ( WoWwiki, Buffed-DB, found nothing about 4 Stammina!)
I will look through all remaining categories.
I updated the tables, so if you're interessted, landsoul, just tell me.
Last edited by Aw4 : 05/09/09 at 5:20 AM.
Reason: I've stolen Perrymason correction for the Cape :P ...din't notice that
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05/05/09, 1:22 PM
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#739
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Glass Joe
Dwarf Warrior
Kargath (EU)
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I found a typo
Breatplate of Frozen Pain -> Breastplate of Frozen Pain
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05/05/09, 6:44 PM
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#740
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Glass Joe
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What I do not understand is why Armor Penetration has increasing returns. Every 12 (or so) armor pen gives you 1% armor penetration. Going from 12 to 24, you get 2%, and so on. Every 12 points gets you 1%. So why does it make sense that as you get more armor pen, each addition point gives you more and more DPS. It made sense back when armor penetration was not a %, but a certain value of armor pen.
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05/05/09, 10:03 PM
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#741
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Glass Joe
Gnome Warrior
Frostmourne
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Is there any chance someone could upload the latest '97 spreadsheet somewhere other than filefront? it's blocked on my works proxy -.-
@ Mightybeast: The old ArP system didn't scale, and tipped the balance for melee way too far, especially in PvP. With the new % system it makes it more fair in PvP and easier to control in PvE aswell. IMO anyway
Each additional point of ArP adds to your dps simply because you are ignoring more armor.. The more you get, the more armor you are ignoring, the more damage goes through!
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05/06/09, 3:04 AM
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#742
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Warrior
Stormscale (EU)
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Originally Posted by Mightybeast
What I do not understand is why Armor Penetration has increasing returns. Every 12 (or so) armor pen gives you 1% armor penetration. Going from 12 to 24, you get 2%, and so on. Every 12 points gets you 1%. So why does it make sense that as you get more armor pen, each addition point gives you more and more DPS. It made sense back when armor penetration was not a %, but a certain value of armor pen.
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Even if it's a percentage, on each target you do still chip off a set value of armor every percent of Armor Penetration you gain. Say, against a level 80 mob with sunders and FF on it, you got 20% of ArPen on your character. You reduce the target's armor from 7394 to 5915 (-1478 from ArPen) -- 32,68% mitigation to 27,97%.
By increasing your ArPen another 20%, you further reduce the target's armor by 1478, and you gained a 7,52% damage increase doing so, reducing the target's armor to 4436 (22,56% mitigation). Increasing it yet another time to 60% ArPen you further reduce armor by the same amount of 1478, and you get a 8,13% damage increase doing so. Target's armor is now at 16,26% mitigation. Another 20% yields you a 8,85% increase, and the next 1478 armor reduces your target to 0 armor, giving you a 9,71% damage increase.
So, in a way, Armor Penetration still works the same. The difference is now from TBC that low-armor targets do not get hurt so much more from ArPen compared to high-armor classes. Going from 0% to 80% ArPen against a 15000 armor target yields a 36,36% damage increase. Against a 4000 armor target, the damage is increased by 19,96%.
Last edited by Slafsinator : 05/06/09 at 6:46 AM.
Reason: Typo
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05/06/09, 6:35 AM
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#743
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Glass Joe
Draenei Warrior
Die Silberne Hand (EU)
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Originally Posted by Mightybeast
What I do not understand is why Armor Penetration has increasing returns. Every 12 (or so) armor pen gives you 1% armor penetration. Going from 12 to 24, you get 2%, and so on. Every 12 points gets you 1%. So why does it make sense that as you get more armor pen, each addition point gives you more and more DPS. It made sense back when armor penetration was not a %, but a certain value of armor pen.
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Or in a shorter way:
Mitigation through armor has diminishing returns, so the opposite will have increasing returns.
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05/06/09, 2:19 PM
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#744
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Glass Joe
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Thanks for the update.
Noticed [Soul-Devouring Cinch] hasn't been added yet. Also, I believe this was mentioned before, but it wasn't changed in the update so figured I'd bring it up again - [Power Enhancing Loop] is 68 strength 35 hit instead of 60 strength 34 hit.
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05/06/09, 3:53 PM
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#745
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Von Kaiser
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Landsoul,
Overpower strike strength, cell AL65, formula is missing the contribution from deep wounds.
It should have +(IF(AH36>0.5,1,AH36+0.5)*0.16*AO12*Z56*AB56*AB54) in the end of cell AL65's current formula to be consistent with the other two strike strengths.
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05/06/09, 5:23 PM
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#746
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Banned
Draenei Warrior
Ysera (EU)
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Hey landsoul,
thank you very much for your great work for our warrior community!
People all over the world use your spreadsheet (including me from germany  )
Well, i have got a question for gemming:
How can I use Excel SOLVER for the gemming process? I think solver is exactly the thing you need for that.
The target cell should be the dps cell and the editable cells are what?? if i chose the gem fields it doesnt work (because of the dropdown?))
I think Solver is maybe a great way to find always the maximized GEM-Solution for your complete set or??
Best regards from europe!
Keep up the good work! It awesome, i love you =)
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05/07/09, 1:47 AM
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#747
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Glass Joe
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Rage production...
I've been using your spreadsheet for quite a while, and it's always been a really good measure for me - at least until recently. As you well know, the gear in non-hard mode Ulduar has the general theme of hit rating and armor penetration, and while equipping the pieces shows a nice increase on your spreadsheet, I'm finding my DPS is falling off drastically.
It's true that my attack power has gone up a couple hundred, and I am approaching the point in armor pen where I'll soon switch all my gems over, as well as gaining about 150 hit rating... but I've lost about 6% crit in the process. I'm finding that flurry and deep wounds are going down quite often, I'm having even more rage starvation issues than before, and I'm definitely not able to heroic strike as often.
I guess I don't really have any suggestions to make, but I am wondering if this discrepancy I'm finding has any reason behind it that could be overlooked in your spreadsheet?
The World of Warcraft Armory
This is where I'm at now, and I'm finding results are just not as good as the crit gear these new pieces replaced.
Edit: I was curious, and decided to swap my Valorous Siegebreaker shoulders and legs for my Valorous Dreadnaught in the spreadsheet, and found something interesting... My DPS went up a bit, but more than that, the four piece bonus for tier 7 doesn't seem to be worth anything anymore. That has never been the case for me. Does this mean that with just changing those two pieces out that I'll have so much rage that the proc will have no effect on my DPS? I hardly think that to be the case with how things were tonight.
Last edited by screwzloos : 05/07/09 at 2:45 AM.
Reason: New info
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05/07/09, 4:52 AM
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#748
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Piston Honda
Tauren Warrior
Proudmoore
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Just tried using all plate and came up with 6707dps. Using T8.5 in every slot but the shoulder. Used T7.5 there instead. ArP total is 926. Belt of the Titans was easier to work with vs Belt of Colossal Rage. This freed up some restrictions and allowed more ArP gem usage. Also updated and used Frigid Strength of Hodir. Forced to use that due to belt swappage. But with updated stats it works out quite well. What i found interesting was i couldn't get better results with Plated Leggings of Ruination. I figured i may never see them so specifically optimized without them. I'm now glad that i did this. You can get about 6733dps with 792 ArP using the leather Legguards of Cunning Deception. I'll stick with the plate setup myself. I always prefer plate and i prefer the higher ArP.
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05/07/09, 5:46 AM
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#749
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Glass Joe
Human Warrior
Frostmourne
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Hi Guys,
Just a few things, Cloak of Armed Strike is not supported and crusaders locket as a trinket is also not supported. Wrist enchant of +24 attack power is not supported.. Other then that its a fantastic spreadsheet. keep up the good work.
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05/07/09, 12:36 PM
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#750
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Glass Joe
Gnome Warrior
Dragonblight
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Originally Posted by screwzloos
I've been using your spreadsheet for quite a while, and it's always been a really good measure for me - at least until recently. As you well know, the gear in non-hard mode Ulduar has the general theme of hit rating and armor penetration, and while equipping the pieces shows a nice increase on your spreadsheet, I'm finding my DPS is falling off drastically.
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I've actually noticed that lately as well and it's been puzzling me. I swapped some gear out for last night's raid, that according to the spreadsheet should've changed my theoretical dps from 5235 to 5337, yet my dps on bosses dropped from the 4600 range to around 4000. It was really confusing, all raid buffs should've been the same (unless someone stealth-respecced), and other dps classes didn't seem to have problems. Unfortunately I was the only dps warrior (we have a feral druid & combat rogue), so I didn't have anyone else in for comparison. Tonight I'll pull my old gear out of the bank and try to compare more thoroughly. My latency seemed consistent, it's always in the 60-90 ms range. I had no rage problems with either gearset, I was able to keep up HS nearly 100%. It's possible I was hitting Berserker Rage more often than before to maintain rage, but I'm not sure.
Basically gear-wise I dropped about 90 AP, 52 hit (unbuffed) to gain 45 ArP, about 0.9% crit, and 121 haste, which the spreadsheet was showing should be a 102 dps increase. I'll see what testing I can do tonight.
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