In theory raiding with less expertise than required might increade your dps, but i tried it myself (8 expertise). I often need sunder due to not having a prot warrior all the time. It is very annoying dropping 5 stacks of sunder due to a a lack of a prot warrior and missing a white hit after a heroic strike, which denies a lot of damge.
I did the math a while back, and there's really no way for the loss of expertise to increase your DPS. Granted, Overpower does more damage on average than MS or Sudden Death, but the loss of the GCD of whatever was dodged doesn't make up for it. Assume that Slam does 4k, MS does 5k and OP does 7k (all including deep wounds from potential procs).
If you get a dodge on Slam and follow it up with an OP, you do 7k. If you didn't get a dodge, you would have slammed twice for 8k total, for a loss of 1k. MS/Slam would be a loss of 2k damage. Execute/Slam would be an even greater loss.
The only way you can make up that damage is with a white dodge (which doesn't cost a GCD), which will give you a large chunk of that damage back. But it probably won't be more, and will affect your rage, so it's not a good idea.
Regardless, though, there are times when you'd want to replace a slam with a dodge-activated OP if you find yourself sitting below the cap for one reason or another, and it would probably be good to determine exactly how often this happens.
Nate put out a new release.
We were discussing on the mailings lists if the 4.8% crit suppression vs bosses does only apply to white hits or also specials. Found sources that say white+specials, some only white hits suffer from it. Nevertheless, with it enabled for specials the dps is more in line with the spreadsheet, so I suppose your spreadsheet does apply it to white hits and specials
Ok, and now i see myself with 132 (4%) hit rating on Arms Build, and...
on my spreadsheet Hit is 0.89 against 1 STR yet... is this really true? even being 3% before the cap?
should i stick with 4% (+1% from draenei) and get more str/crit or should i go for the cap (+3%) and spreadsheet is not so accurate about hit sep values?
I did the math a while back, and there's really no way for the loss of expertise to increase your DPS. Granted, Overpower does more damage on average than MS or Sudden Death, but the loss of the GCD of whatever was dodged doesn't make up for it. Assume that Slam does 4k, MS does 5k and OP does 7k (all including deep wounds from potential procs).
If you get a dodge on Slam and follow it up with an OP, you do 7k. If you didn't get a dodge, you would have slammed twice for 8k total, for a loss of 1k. MS/Slam would be a loss of 2k damage. Execute/Slam would be an even greater loss.
The only way you can make up that damage is with a white dodge (which doesn't cost a GCD), which will give you a large chunk of that damage back. But it probably won't be more, and will affect your rage, so it's not a good idea.
Regardless, though, there are times when you'd want to replace a slam with a dodge-activated OP if you find yourself sitting below the cap for one reason or another, and it would probably be good to determine exactly how often this happens.
Noone said that losing expertise would ever increase dps on its own - its just that replacing it with STR/ArP can. The fact that you convert dodges to OP is actually not even calculated i think. Arms expertise is lower, because a large chunk of damage (if you count DW contribution around 25-28%) is from overpower (normal TfB procs) - an attack that cannot be dodged in first place (and thus expertise doesnt improve it at all).
That's odd, I'll take a look at it. It should not be doing this..
Edit: Found the problem, for yellow crit reduction through miss rate, it was referring to the wrong cell. Fixing it properly puts hit rating above 1.000 SEP.
Hi folks
Quick question about the sheet itself.
I am trying to change the armory address from the us armory to the eu armory to import my character but when i cut and paste in the link into the excel sheet, in the formula bar , it just crashes the program?
This may have been covered before but i have not spotted the link.
Thanks
I had asked this question before and nobody actually responded to it. I never noticed the food buff defaulting to ArP on the chart, thanks for pointing this out.
Just making sure I am using the spreadsheet right.
For looking at fury and using the fury section of the spreadsheet. When the sheet has all my info on it I hit the "click for SEP calculations"
It then gives me SEP values for all my stats. I take what it gives me for Hit, Expertise, and Armor pen and I plug them into the Look up section in the "adjust to section. I put the use hit adjustment, Expertise adjustment, and Arp adjustment to 1 so it will use the values I put in the "adjust section".
For example in my fury gear my hit spreadsheet calculated SEP value is .5153, my expertise value is 0, and my ArP is .9206. So I have it calculate my gear choices based on those numbers.
My question is once I am yellow hit capped for fury, should I have it be sorting my gear with 0 SEP points for hit? I thought hit still had some value as it can help generate rage from white attacks?
I also do the same thing for my arms gear look up. I take the SEP value it gives me and plug into the look up section to sort my gear with those values.
I would like to know if I am doing this wrong, and if hit should have a 0 SEP value when looking at the chart for gear upgrades? And If so is it the same for both Fury and Arms.
Any help is much appreciated, and my apologies if this post causes problems or is inappropriate.
There's no need to use adjust the values if you are simply acquiring the SEP values from each individual sheet. Simply select which sheet you are wanting to use the Lookup for, and it will acquire those values for you. The adjustment is available to force the sheet into considering different SEP values, as in, non-sheet generated SEP values.
Make sure that you are either a) dual wielding as Fury, or b) have the Titan's Grip talent selected, to make sure that you are actually putting dual-wield into play. Otherwise, the hit hard cap would be 8%, and more hit above that would indeed have a 0 value.
[Band of Lights] is missing in the spreadsheet. 3rd/4th ranked ring atm.
This has been mentioned already by Landsoul on the first page and many others that this ring is missing from the spreadsheet. Next time read the front page more carefully =).
I've noticed that in game, Tooltip ArP is displaying at conversion rate of 15.4 (the old rate) as opposed to 12.3 (the current rate). Has ArP been nerfed, or is this simply a tooltip error?
On a test I did today with 100% ArP on a sundered boss dummy, my Bloothirst lost 8.25% damage... Is this consistent with current mechanics, or has there been a change?
Have you considered how the execute change in 3.2 will affect Arms DPS in execute range? As I'm sure you know, unless your AP is extremely high, Execute currently does more damage than Mortal Strike:
assuming appropriate glyphs, no points in Improved Execute, and a T1 furious weapon, the break-even point is 1.21*(3.3/14 * x + 380 + 838) = (1456 + 25*38 + 0.2*x) => x = 10937 AP for a 30-rage execute.
With the new 3.2 change, SD becomes (basically) a non-factor sub-20%, so you can replace MS and Slam with Execute entirely, making your "rotation" consist only of Rend, Overpower, and Execute. Slam will also not be worth it sub-20%, even at low rage: 3.6/14*x + 250 + 838 = 1456 + 10*38 + 0.2*x => x = 13090 AP.
My question is, how will this affect the choice of a 55/8/8 vs a 54/17 spec? If you have good gear, and are good enough about using Heroic Strike, 55/8/8 is currently a single-target DPS increase over 54/17 (which the spreadsheet agrees with).
However, with the change, you might see a DPS increase sub-20% that is greater for 54/17 than it is for 55/8/8. The change would be governed by your AP and weapon quality, among other things. This would be an interesting number to know in the spreadsheet: is there any functionality planned to show the sub-20% DPS increase for Arms? One could also factor it into total DPS by making 80% of the contribution the normal rotation, and then replace MS by Execute for 20%, adjusting Heroic Strike usage for the increased rage usage.
(I use "rotation" as a term for the normal Arms priority list).
EDIT: fixed some math
However, with the change, you might see a DPS increase sub-20% that is greater for 54/17 than it is for 55/8/8. The change would be governed by your AP and weapon quality, among other things. This would be an interesting number to know in the spreadsheet: is there any functionality planned to show the sub-20% DPS increase for Arms? One could also factor it into total DPS by making 80% of the contribution the normal rotation, and then replace MS by Execute for 20%, adjusting Heroic Strike usage for the increased rage usage.
Of course, this would only be for a single-target environment.
Fights with significant movement ("replacing" Slams with Heroic Strikes as a rage dump) and/or significant multi-target aspects will still skew towards 55/8/8.
The ability to spread an improved attack speed slowing debuff and Deep Wounds/Blood Frenzy to multiple targets (via Incite+Improved Thunderclap) provides a rather unique raid utility that may prove useful, depending upon your raid composition.
On the other hand, 54/17 provides the raid utility of an improved shout (be it Demo, Battle, or Commanding), again, depending upon your raid composition.
Assuming single-target dps for the two specs remains similar, the decision lies in what buffs/debuffs will benefit your raid the most.
With the latest version of the spread sheet for excel 2007. I get the following errors when trying to download my character.
+50 Attack Power and +20 Critical Strike Rating is not a supported HeadEnchantTooltip enchant.
Run-time error '1004': Unable to get the VLookup property of the WorksheetFunction class.
Last edited by galvin : 08/05/09 at 2:09 PM.
Reason: Typo
Possibly related: I edit the sheet to split out DW time and use a custom rotation. I was unable to get the Head Enchant on the DW sheet slot to have the value of the main sheet, saying a user had restricted values in that cell. No other slot had that issue. Hope that helps track it down.
By the way is there an eta on the sheet for the next patch? Not trying to rush you but wondering how much I should bother to do myself until then.
Is there already a 3.2-version with at least the new items / gems and maybe the changed value for AttT? I know, that all the promised changes will delay the release, but I guess it would be only a little bit copy / paste to add the new stuff to the current sheet.
PS: maybe someone else had done this work already for himself. I would take such an version too :-)
07/28/09, 9:34 PM
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