I experience the same issues as Graul. I'm at 6203 DPS with Fury now - that's a straight +120 compared to version 2.402c. Most of this DPS seems to come from Grim Toll, being a bunch better now. Problem with that is, I know I just can't put out these numbers yet. Since the nerf, all estimates from the spreadsheet don't seem to be really fitting, eg. I had 6700 DPS listed pre-nerf and this was truly possible, but now I'm happy when I reach 5500+.
Only thing that comes to my mind, beeing perhaps not accurate, is the Bloodsurge and especially Heroic Strike % dealed. Melee-white hits 14% damage dealed (as shown with my gear setup now) can't be right, I've never seen those numbers. Heroic Strike is probably too high here. Blood Surge is perhaps calculated too "perfect": I lose 15-50% of the procs every fight due to overwriting itself - is the spreadsheet already calculating the loss of Slams due to overwriting?
I have a question regarding your gemming in some of the more optimal gear setups.
Items such as Drape of the Faceless General are getting +8 Str/8 Crit in the yellow for a +6 agility bonus. The SEP values of that end-gear setup is 17.8194, while just off-socketing another +16 arp gives 22.1648 SEP.
Also, I repeated this with the Conq Siegebreaker gloves, and even though the socket bonus sets me under hit cap, it is still an overall DPS gain. Although I am sure you are just gemming for socket bonuses.
I am guessing you just set this up, but I think the most valuable gemming strategy is to use the JC gems on item slots in which you are only going to get ArP from. For example, you are using a JC gem and a +8 Str/Crit gem in the pant slot. If you were to just use straight 16 ArP gems, and then use the +27 ArP gem in the bracers (which have a total of 1 off-color gem slots) you will gain more DPS, even if the socket bonus is inferior.
Currently, using the default spreadsheet (which I have been assuming is the best-in-slot spread sheet on the defautl download) I have 7099.5008 DPS. The amount of SEP from Apen is also getting decently close to make executioner superior to berserking if your math is correct :o (1.4258 SEP versus the needed 1.4568) In fact, if you are using an Apen elixir, you will reach the point where executioner is superior to beserking. Although, I believe a flask is about 11-12 higher SEP than the elixir. However, if executioner is superior to beserking, the actual DPS difference will only be roughly 5-6, so if you elixir more than you flask, it may be worth it to go with executioner.
Now I have to tinker with the sheet to figure out where I want to find hit rating. I hate Alliance
EDIT: Added a few questions
I have been messing around with a Horde-side arms BiS list. Does anyone have a stronger setup than simply swapping bracers to Decimators Armguards? I am using the default gear, with that change. I am using apen gems in every slot, with the JC apen gems in the weapon, chest, and cloak.
I have been using the armor pen calculator from Simple ArPen calculator as a quick reference, but it seems like the data is not consistant with the spreadsheet. I am guessing that your spreadsheet is more accurate, but does anyone know the error in either the websites calculations or the potential spreadsheet issues?
Also, at which point of armor penetration will mace spec outweigh axe? I am sure this has been asked, as I have read a few threads, but I have not found a really clear-cut supported answer.
Edit again to say thank you for updating the spreadsheet as often as you do :>
Please note there is very little human error involved in the sheet. Assume that a robot is playing your character in a tank and spank fight. Especially in Ulduar, there is so much going on and even recount is not 100% accurate. The DPS number is a metric used to determine SEP, not how much damage you should be doing in a raid.
I made a sheet as a tauren warrior, no changes to lag, I also added JC only, no blacksmithing. It has hit cap and .5% under the expertise cap adding Weapon Mastery(No imp execute obviously). The DPS is 6346.9, if I change out Darkmoon for Mjonir(I didnt add any hardmode gear) I go up to 6534.1 dps
Kaan don't take this too personal. I mainly want to use you as an example. I can beat what the spreadsheet says on some fights. Look primarily at your spec. 3/5 dual wield. Your offhand is doing less damage for a dps loss. Offhand provides most of our rage. Reducing this amount of rage generation by 10% is a huge loss. Also no rage talents at all. I have 3 Ulduar items. You have 9 Ulduar items. Your gear and gemming choices leave much to be desired. The spreadsheet shows you doing almost 200 dps more than me. I can guarantee i will out dps you by a lot. Rage, rage and more rage is the key to our dps. While the spreadsheet isn't perfect you do have to actually use some common sense. Spec for more rage generation please.
The only major problem i see with the spreadsheet is rage generation. Kaan is a good example of why this should probably be fixed. Nobody is doing the amount of heroic strikes as shown. And the people with less rage generation due to talents should show more of a dps loss. This currently is not happening due to the inflated rage generation. People using the spreadsheet will miss this rage part completely and like Kaan they will and do all suffer.
Last edited by catch22atplay : 05/14/09 at 7:26 PM.
Your critique is partly valid. However, I don't have any rage problems. I have 3/5 Offhand Spec, which is a offhand damage loss of about 5%, not 10% as it only increases 50% offhand damage by 25% damage with 5/5 - so it increases offhand damage by 15% with 3/5, which is 50% + 15% = 57,5% instead of 62,5% with 5/5 Offhand Spec. On top of that I have 5/5 Enrage, that can set it more than off when it procs (on some bosses easily, on some bosses not, of course), as stated by Shaa and copied from me.
"Your gear and gemming choices leave much to be desired. "
Can't confirm this at all. My new equip with 4/5 Siegebreaker was doing quite well on thursday, especially Razorscale/Mimiron where I placed 1. My old gear with zero expertise socketing, Chestguard of the Recluse, 2PC T7 and 2PC T8 bonus is clearly inferior in the spreadsheet and ingame too.
"I can guarantee i will out dps you by a lot."
Honestly, you can't. You underestimate my gear and spec, so you probably underestimate me too.
"Kaan is a good example of why this should probably be fixed. Nobody is doing the amount of heroic strikes as shown."
No, I don't think I'm a good example. My gear is obviously better than 95% of the players to this date. I swim in rage and have no real problems at all. I've previously said, Heroic Strike usage is probably too high in the spreadsheet, but then again, there are bosses where it is perfectly fine. The spreadsheet can't account for everything.
However, as Landsoul already said, the spreadsheet isn't there for 1:1 DPS analysis, it's for SEP and optimizing gear in a perfect world (I almost forgot that). And it's certainly the most times right, doing so, adviced by the spreadsheet. I use the spreadsheet of landsoul for over a year now and it was almost always doing fine for me. So no, there isn't any major problem at all in the spreadsheet, I'd say.
"Never ever", "period"? Certainly not. There's a rage cap, where you can't utilize excess rage. And with "enough" I didn't meant "enough" in your terms, it was more meant like "I have enough rage to drive sufficient DPS."