Warrior DPS Calculation Spreadsheet - Page 61

Jayde777 · 05/20/09, 8:40 AM

Now that the arp cap is 100% will there be an update to the BIS gear and the spread sheet?

rejdakon · 05/20/09, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Jayde777

Now that the arp cap is 100% will there be an update to the BIS gear and the spread sheet?

I don't think that change has already gone live. GC announced it but said they didn't know when it would make it into the game. Landsould already stated that he would incorporate it in the future, if i remember correctly.

Apart from that, last thing I remember was that it wasn't even clear how this cap will work. Will it cap actual ArP at 100% or will it simply prevent armor from going into the negative? From what GC wrote, it seems more likely to be the second which would not actually cap ArP at 100% but above that (how far above would depend on applied debuffs).

catch22atplay · 05/20/09, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by landsoul

the 100 rage cap is definately not modeled. I'm sure there are times with very hard hitting strikes that you can potentially go very well past 100 especially with 100% armor removal.

I also do agree that the way it's done in the sheet isn't how I really wanted o do it in the first place, but other methods I tried just produced chaotic divergence. I do agree it is too high, but there's not much I can do about it at the moment unless I cheat it or add some kind of constant like I do with the arms models which I don't really want to do. Some time I will do some dummy testing and compare white/heroic ratios and see if I can come up with anything I may have overlooked as far as a solution goes over the last year.

I appreciate the assistance with the brainstorming, but please keep it useful and intelligent.

I understand it's extremely difficult and i can't figure out a way to do it any better. The only thing i could think of was a correction factor. Basically just guessing at how much rage we loose due to this.

May be completely wrong here but weren't we supposed to get less rage vs ArP reduced mobs? No idea about this one and the increased damage may counter this anyways. Don't think it's correct. But maybe worth looking into. Probably a complete waste of time though as i don't believe it anyways.

Also i'm testing rage currently for offhand. These our my results so far.

Offhand crits vs a L83 dummy

937 damage O/H crit
14 rage

1037 damage O/H crit
14 rage

1655 damage O/H crit
20 rage

1780 damage O/H crit
20 rage

1059 damage O/H crit
15 rage

1306 damage O/H crit
15 rage

Bah redid the data as dodges for 6 rage thru it off. It's tracking correctly now. Did we always get 6 rage for a dodge? Or is this part of the new math for getting rage vs shielded targets? The dummy isn't shielded. It's just a dodge. Bare fisted glancing blow for 57 got 2 rage. But a dodge gets 6 rage. Very interesting. And very annoying for testing purposes.

Kwanza · 05/20/09, 11:34 AM

The change has gone live. The cap is that no more than 100% of your target's armor can be ignored. Here are the results of my controlled BT tests from this morning:

Hit = damage from a non-crit BT
G = Grim toll proc up
M = Mjolnir proc up
2 = Both procs up
S = 5 stacks of sunder up

Base: 524+BS
Tooltip:2 1592

Hit 1178
Hit+G 1456
Hit+M 1457
Hit+S 1277
Hit+S+G 1580
Hit+S+M 1580
Hit+S+2 1580

With Faerie Fire:

Tooltip:2 1592
Hit 1201
Hit+G 1486
Hit+M 1485
Hit+2 1486
Hit+S 1294
Hit+S+G 1591
Hit+S+M 1592
Hit+S+2 1591

Compare this to my ArP Tests I did a couple weeks when I had gotten my runestone, but the ArP nerf was not yet in place:

Tooltip BT: 1665
ArP: 448 + Battle stance

BT: 1202 (27.8% reduction)
BT+1 trink: 1495 (10.2% reduction)
BT+2 trink: 2033 (negative armor, 22% tooltip increase)
BT+1+Sun+Faer: 1623 (2.5% reduction)
BT+2+Sun+Faer: 2200 (negative armor, 32.1% tooltip increase)

Conclusions:
-Total armor ignored on a boss is now capped at 100%
-What your tooltip says is meaningless
-There is now some kind of damage variance active in the game, otherwise a 2 trink proc hit wouldn't be hitting for less than a 1 trink proc hit.
-Your tooltip will still say that 1XX% armor ignored, like it used to. This number is basically meaningless now.

Machinator · 05/20/09, 2:04 PM

Originally Posted by Kwanza

-There is now some kind of damage variance active in the game, otherwise a 2 trink proc hit wouldn't be hitting for less than a 1 trink proc hit.

If you are referring to the 1592/1591 stuff, I believe that is just how WoW rounds. They don't throw away the remainder, but save it and add it onto later hits. It is more noticeable in dots, where say a dot that does 1000 over 3 ticks will do 333, 333, 334.

The fact that I can't find this change in any patch notes or post is very annoying though.

Lokdar · 05/20/09, 3:14 PM

I've been trying to search the forums for a port to Openoffice of Landsoul's spreadsheet. I know I'm not the only one that doesn't have Excel. Is there any way to change the settings myself to work in OpenOffice? Thanks in advance.

Breuger · 05/20/09, 4:59 PM

Originally Posted by skdal

Last time I got a Visual Basic error with the spreadsheet I had to redownload it and it worked fine. Have you tried that yet?

Yeah, I've re-downloaded both versions multiple times, and still errors with both versions.
Not sure what's going on here :/

Shha · 05/20/09, 5:22 PM

Kwanza thats strange, cause i did some rough test with heroic throw on tuesday, and i got 2200 hit with 1580 tooltip or so (no shout etc). Ill test it again with BT and heroic throw I guess.

Edit: Just tested, and yes it seems to be live.

screwzloos · 05/20/09, 7:08 PM

Quick fix to make -
"Quadruple" in cell X47 is spelled incorrectly.

^_^ Great spreadsheet, keep it up!

asbani · 05/20/09, 9:22 PM

Edited, deleted.

landsoul · 05/21/09, 12:09 AM

Read this, this is the tested hotfix to armor penetration with respect to its cap.

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t29453-c...9/#post1247312

landsoul · 05/21/09, 1:27 AM

I did some testing on a dummy with naked gear and some very weak 2h axes, and found some interesting things.

For normalized rage generation,

I sometimes got:
3 rage from a MH dodge
2 rage from a MH hit
2 rage from a OH hit

I never got the normalized rage from a MH hit which is what a 3.5*3.2/2 = 5.6 normalized hit would give. The strikes that land are between 50 and 90 damage which suggest giving up to 1 rage from non-normalized sources: 5/4/320.6*damage dealt, but all I got was 2-3 rage for each main hand hit.

Also, I am definitely getting full rage form dodged and parried attacks, maybe a dodge or parry is treated as a shielded target?

Also, a note about over representation of heroic strikes and the glyph in the sheet, it is assuming that you get the 10 rage from a heroic crit simultaneous to it critting, which does not happen in the game. The heroic strike is a prerequisite of the extra rage from the crit, they don't go hand in hand.

I digged out this post from Kalgan:

Those are definitely inaccurate.

Here are the current rage generation formulae (note: these are slightly different than the ones which are on the current public test realms).

The notable changes include an update to offhand rage generation (previously it was not being normalized correctly), and an improvement to rage generation from crits (essentially, crits now generate double the rage the hit would have ordinarily caused). The later change should help ensure that certain specs (ie: sword specialization) don't become clearly superior to crit-enhancing specializations like Axe/Polearm.

For Dealing Damage:
Main Hand Normal Hits: Factor=2.5
Main Hand Crits: Factor=5.0
Off Hand Normal Hits: Factor=1.25
Off Hand Crits: Factor=2.5

Rage Conversion Value (note: this number is derived from other values within the game such as a mob's hit points and a warrior's expected damage value against that mob):

Rage Conversion at level 60: 230.6
Rage Conversion at level 70: 274.7

Expansion Rage Gained from dealing damage = ((Damage Dealt) / (Rage Conversion at Your Level) * 7.5 + (Weapon Speed * Factor))/2

Pre-Expansion Rage Gained from dealing damage = (Damage Dealt) / (Rage Conversion at Your Level) * 7.5

For Taking Damage (both pre and post expansion):
Rage Gained = (Damage Taken) / (Rage Conversion at Your Level) * 2.5

which is definately different from the wowwiki note as f = 7,3.5,1.75 values which is what I've used for years.

Graul · 05/21/09, 2:41 AM

Originally Posted by landsoul

Read this, this is the tested hotfix to armor penetration with respect to its cap.

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t29453-c...9/#post1247312

So it looks like either of the two ArP trinkets just became a lot less attractive except on a few specific fights unless you're sitting under 40% ArP.

TheGhost305 · 05/21/09, 5:35 AM

I got a question..you said the best Wrist in Slot is (Armbands of Bedlam) but in my opinion
Bitterkalte Armschützer
are better...because of the AP.

Gazelem · 05/21/09, 9:38 AM

Originally Posted by TheGhost305

I got a question..you said the best Wrist in Slot is (Armbands of Bedlam) but in my opinion
Bitterkalte Armschützer
are better...because of the AP.

He hasn't just arbitrarily picked Armbands of Bedlam. He has used the spreadsheet to value each of the stats of the different pieces, in this case the Armbands of Beldam are better by about 15 SEP. Perhaps if you posted the math that you feel explains your assertion, we might be able to have a more productive conversation.