Warrior DPS Calculation Spreadsheet - Page 7

NobleHelium · 01/03/09, 4:59 AM

The inputting is taking a bit long right now, I must agree. It's definitely longer than a minute when doing a fresh download of a new version. Things you could do to speed it up include:

1) Link socket bonuses to the item entries, and automatically determine whether the bonus is matched. You'll need to change the gem entry around a bit for this, since right now it's not even showing the sockets on the main item page.
2) Sort the gems better in some way. Perhaps quality first, then alphabetical. This is definitely slowing me down.

IceBox · 01/03/09, 9:31 AM

Aye the gem sorting really hurts imo :> I spend 50% of the time looking for that damn 16 str gem! Maybe put all the same types of gems together and add a small space. Something like:

-- STR --
+16 Str
+14 Str
+12 Str

-- CRIT/STR --
+16 AP 8 Crit
+ 7 Str 8 Crit

An auto-coloring for the sockets would be a great feature too if it's not too hard to implement.

Oh and maybe add some indicators for the leather/mail stuff, like Blue Aspect Helm (Mail) but only if you're too bored :P

Great work btw, helped me in so many situations and saved a shitload of dkp

Sore82 · 01/03/09, 9:53 AM

Originally Posted by landsoul

As far as armory input goes, I don't really know, it would be buggy a lot (at least when I would set it up) and you aren't always logged out in Armor on the set you want to look at. Does it take you more than 1 minute to input your items/gems?

Well, for me, I will be honest and say it was kinda annoying. The spreadsheet does not auto-adjust based on the gear piece...so when you switch from one piece of armor that has 3 sockets, to a piece of armor that has 0 sockets, you have to go in and manually switch each of those 3 socket pieces to "None" (instead of the spreadsheet knowing that the piece has 0 sockets and auto-adjusting).

Again, I am coming from the Hunter spreadsheet. And while I can agree that not everyone logs out in the exact armor set they use all the time, I would say the majority of the time people do. Having the ability to load your profile on the fly is a REALLY nice feature. Im not sure how "buggy" you think it would be. I would suggest maybe looking at the codeing for the Hunter Spreadsheet and see how they did it, because it can read the armory page and update all the spreadsheet information in a matter of seconds. This includes gem slots, enchants and things like if you have a certain set bonus from your gear.

Another good feature is the "Gear Planner". What this feature does is shows you what piece of gear you are using, ranks it (based on your current stats), and then shows you what pieces would be better. I like being able to see how my gear ranks on teh screen, instead of having to click on the drop down scroll box. Maybe if you made a small box for each slot that showed 10 gear pieces in it (the piece you are wearing in the middle, and the 5 ranked higher pieces above, and the 4 ranked lower pieces below).

Anyways, I really do like your spreadsheet...I guess I have just been using the Hunter one for so long, I am just more used to that one. I know these things are not easy to do (and I know for a fact that I could never do one of these things), so again, just really want to thank you for the time and effort you have put into making this. You might get a better idea of some of the things I am talking about and the format I am referring to if you look at the Hunter spreadsheet here -> WotLK DPS spreadsheet

Satlan_Leng · 01/03/09, 9:46 PM

Originally Posted by landsoul

Also, I think I'm to the point to redo the layout of this thing, because its getting very cluttered. How would you like to see this layed out? What colors or tones would you like to see? How would you like all of the options arranged? Is having everything on one page useful or not useful? Is it annoying to scroll around everywhere to find a box you need because your screen is too small? Do you want a subtle background backdrop again? Input like this helps me.

This caught my attention, as the people over a Rawr have been looking for someone to code their spreadsheet into their interface. I have no idea how detailed that is, but perhaps worth looking into?

Sore82 · 01/03/09, 11:53 PM

Also, I think I'm to the point to redo the layout of this thing, because its getting very cluttered. How would you like to see this layed out? What colors or tones would you like to see? How would you like all of the options arranged? Is having everything on one page useful or not useful? Is it annoying to scroll around everywhere to find a box you need because your screen is too small? Do you want a subtle background backdrop again? Input like this helps me.

When making something like this, its best to try and think as simplistic as you can. The goal should be to make it so someone who has very little knowledge in how specific numbers work, can easily download your spreadsheet, input their info and get a result quickly.

Different tabs for different information is VERY helpful. Certain features or information can easily get lost in the clutter of things when you have 10 different things on just 1 page. These spreadsheets do not need to be fancy - and in many ways, the less fancy they are, the better. I should be able to load my information into the spreadsheet and see what my projected DPS output is right away...both with raid buffs and without.

In the end, you wont appeal to everyone. Some people will like things differently than others. But I think the key is to try and make the spreadsheet usable by a wide variety of people (casuals, hard-core raiders, the computer smart and the people who only know the basics). In my opinion, you can reach all those people through simplicity and ease of use.

Just remember, what may be easy for you, may not be so obvious or easy to someone else. The goal should be to make it obvious and user friendly as possible, so everyone can benefit from it.

landsoul · 01/04/09, 3:46 PM

Yes so I looked at the hunter spreadsheet, and in my eyes it was way too busy with too many different pages. Essentially what I wanted this to be was somehow condense jam everything into one page, which I have done but it looks cluttered. I want everyone to be able to do everything in one shot in less than a minute, with no guess work. The gear planner is a nice idea, but with expertise and hit caps and ranking items makes it very up and down and not straight forward. The sort macro automatically sorts your items based on how powerful they are and is not automatic. If it were automatic on every change, the sheet would be painfully slow, same with SEP. The SEP macro takes 5 seconds to run alone. One thing I may be able to do better is the gems. I put a hell of a lot of work into gems and gemSEP already and changes will destroy the system. I'd have to make a totally new system all together.

Also in the hunter spredasheet, I couldn't find any code related to armory lookup. Where is it?

Sore82 · 01/04/09, 7:33 PM

Originally Posted by landsoul

Yes so I looked at the hunter spreadsheet, and in my eyes it was way too busy with too many different pages. Essentially what I wanted this to be was somehow condense jam everything into one page, which I have done but it looks cluttered. I want everyone to be able to do everything in one shot in less than a minute, with no guess work. The gear planner is a nice idea, but with expertise and hit caps and ranking items makes it very up and down and not straight forward. The sort macro automatically sorts your items based on how powerful they are and is not automatic. If it were automatic on every change, the sheet would be painfully slow, same with SEP. The SEP macro takes 5 seconds to run alone. One thing I may be able to do better is the gems. I put a hell of a lot of work into gems and gemSEP already and changes will destroy the system. I'd have to make a totally new system all together.

Also in the hunter spredasheet, I couldn't find any code related to armory lookup. Where is it?

Well, the Hunter spreadsheet has a lot of pages because of the different rotations and such. Several pages are dedicated to that and pets and such. Doing something along the same lines for Warriors would be much less in terms of pages needed, but I really do think separating different things on different pages makes a huge difference. Ill tell you right now, the way the Warrior spreadsheet is set up right now can be very confusing. While the Hunter spreadsheet may seem like a lot, it is very easy to see what does what and how to do it.

In regards to the Armory look up...im not a coder, so I have no idea where exactly the code is. However, I can tell you how it works. If you click on the "Overview" tab, and enter in the Name and server of the character you want to use (if you wanna try mine, just enter "Sore" in the name, "Alleria" in the Realm and then "US" for server-set. After you enter that, click on the Gear tab, and at the top you should see a button to click that says "Load Gear from Armory". Clicking this will auto load all my gear, gems and enchants into the table below. Next, if you click on the Gear Planner tab, and click "Sort" at the top, will will arrange your item with a point value system compared to other items (with the item you have equipped as the highlighted one).

I know you said you dont like the amount of tabs on the Hunter Spreadsheet, but it really does make things easier when looking at it from an all over perspective. Each tab is intertwined with eachother...so clicking on "Talents" tab and changing stuff on that will effect things in the "Overview" tab as well. But you will also notice that each tab has a very easy to see DPS section. So you can easily see what each thing does to your overall DPS based on that one specific thing. For example, maybe I want to see how changing my talent points around will mess with my DPS. I load my profile and click right on the "Talents" tab....right there, in my face is my DPS and my talents that I currently have. I can now easily change my talents around and see right away what it does to me DPS. I dont have to scroll around looking for where the DPS box is or anything like that...its all right their on my screen all at the same time. And you can do the same thing for gear, rotations, buffs, or in a Hunters case, different pets and their trees as well. Could you imagine all the information and data in the Hunter Spreadsheet being on 1 page? Thats almost the equivalent of what the Warrior one looks like now...its just too much different stuff all on the same page.

Last, if you have questions regarding the specifics of the Hunter spreadsheet, I would consider talking to the person who is actively editing it, Shandara. The spreadsheet was originally created by Cheeky, but they have since stopped updating it. Shandara took over the work and has been doing a great job.

Alamir · 01/04/09, 10:38 PM

Fantastic spreadsheet! I was wondering if you were planning on adding the Shoulderplates of Bloodshed or did I just miss them?

Elvenefris · 01/05/09, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Alamir

Fantastic spreadsheet! I was wondering if you were planning on adding the Shoulderplates of Bloodshed or did I just miss them?

The [Shoulderplates of Bloodshed] are in the spreadsheet, however under the name Shoulderpads of Bloodshed.

NobleHelium · 01/05/09, 5:32 AM

Ahem, apparently I was wrong in my earlier post and Devotion Aura does currently stack with Stoneskin totem. Haven't remembered to test it until tonight.

rejdakon · 01/05/09, 10:21 AM

While I think that dividing the sheet into tabs would help overall-accessibility and clarity of the spread-sheet, this would make creating several item-Sets a lot more complicated than it is now. Right now, I can simply copy the Set 1-tab and put in the Item-/Talent-Changes. With the sheet itself being spread over several tabs, this would mean that one would have to save a separate file for every set of equipment (unless there is a way to creatively incorporate a pre-defined number of sets into the sheet without actually cluttering up the sheet - I have yet to see a spread-sheet using tabs and offering a "slim" way to create several sets of equipment for easy comparison). This would of course not be the end of the world but it might offset the advantage of tabs.

Apart from this, three things come to my mind:

- I also like the idea of some form of "intelligent" gem-socket/-bonus managment as mentioned by Score82.
- The sorting of Items/Gems sometimes feels weird. This is probably easier to remedy for gems than it is for armor pieces. If I remember correctly, the sheet sorted armor pieces into leather/mail/plate-categories some time ago. Would it be possible to get this done again? (very minor issue)
- It would be nice to have a stat summary somewhere easy to spot, showing final hit/crit/haste, etc percentages.

Obviously, all these are not matters of necessity but rather convenience. I would rather have a sheet offering a little less comfort than sacrificing part of the flexibility it now offers.

Pogues · 01/05/09, 12:09 PM

I think it is better to leave all the gear together, instead of splitting it into leather, mail, plater. It is easier to see the actual best in slot this way. Adding perhaps a tag at the end of non-plate gear names would be the easiest and best way.

Gem look up could be easier simply becuase they are broken up so weird. Also if the spreadsheet knew if there were sockets, how many, bonus, that would be extremely helpful as it is really the only slow part of the process.

As far as tabs, leave the SEP, gear list and dps on the set1 tab then make another tab with all the information that appears below. Also if there was a way to list DPS without raid buffs and with. I find myself having to turn them off all the time when I want to see how my damage increased for heroics where I can't always count on the right buffs being present.

ebs2002 · 01/05/09, 1:20 PM

- Rearrange it so you can see all your unbuffed stats (what Armory would show) in one place, preferably somewhere easy to find
- Right below that, have it include any self-buffed stats (AP using Battle Shout/Commanding Presence, including trinkets and cooldowns that you are factoring in)
- Right below that, include raid buffed stats (possibly with and without cooldowns)
- SEP calculations...I seem to remember the 2.4 spreadsheet doing SEP calcs without using a macro. Our rotation and spec hasn't changed too much, how difficult would this be to re-incorporate? I know that there'd be a bit more guesswork because of your rage-starvation calcs and glyph of heroic strike, but in the end it really seems like it should be doable
- Hit table should be more prominent. Maybe put a small table somewhere that just shows what your hit table is when attacking from behind (two rows, one for MH one for OH?).
- Gems are really difficult to navigate right now, and I like the classification based on stats instead of just one huge dropdown
- A macro for armory lookup would be nice, but IMO isn't super necessary. Once you have it set the first time, and you're out of beta, people won't need to use that feature that much

Really, a lot of the stats that are displayed right below the gear/spec stuff isn't important to most people and can be hidden off somewhere out of sight. Everything that the typical user may want to see should be up top; things like heroic strike calcs and whatnot should be below all of that.

Separate tabs may be the way to go, but I have to agree that the option to include 3 different tabs for different gearsets (10man, 25man, heroic, etc) makes the one-tab feature good.

Next, if you click on the Gear Planner tab, and click "Sort" at the top, will will arrange your item with a point value system compared to other items (with the item you have equipped as the highlighted one).

That's already there. Input your gear, run the SEP macro, then in the gear tab run sort. It sorts everything based on the item's SEP. Really handy feature.

landsoul · 01/05/09, 6:17 PM

Back in the Open Office 2.4 sheet, everything updated on the refresh because of the SEP calculation tab. It was not a macro. The SEP calculation tab (if you still have the file you can go and look at it) ran ALL of the calculations 8 more times for each stat. It's possible, but it would probably take 10 hours of my time to link it all properly without the numbers going haywire, plus additional time on each update if I had to change the baseline calculations. Any change in the baseline calculations I would have to repeat 8 times. If I got paid to do this it would be different, but my time is semi-valuable and the time you save is about 5 seconds.

A clickable macro is such a better solution for me to be able to maintain this program properly.

I'm also thinking of using a different color scheme. Graphics are semi-important. Give me some Ideas.

some options:

Background	Text and Grid	Highlights
Black	grey/white/silver	bold colors
Tan	Black/grey	maroons and reds
Maroon	White/gold/tans	reds
White	Blacks	grey/silver/colors

Alamir · 01/06/09, 6:11 PM

I couldn't figure out if the spreadsheet took into consideration the two piece tier 7 set bonus in the SEP calculation. Because it affects Slam damage and that is based off crit, I thought it might bump up the SEP crit value a bit, but wasn't sure.

rejdakon · 01/07/09, 6:28 AM

Originally Posted by landsoul

I'm also thinking of using a different color scheme. Graphics are semi-important. Give me some Ideas.

some options:

Background	Text and Grid	Highlights
Black	grey/white/silver	bold colors
Tan	Black/grey	maroons and reds
Maroon	White/gold/tans	reds
White	Blacks	grey/silver/colors

I think light on dark is usually better for long-time viewing. So either option 1 or option 3, though I really think that the color design is fine the way it is (option 1).

Originally Posted by Alamir

I couldn't figure out if the spreadsheet took into consideration the two piece tier 7 set bonus in the SEP calculation. Because it affects Slam damage and that is based off crit, I thought it might bump up the SEP crit value a bit, but wasn't sure.

The sheet is based on 3.0.8 mechanics as far as they're currently known. Crit does therefore not influence Bloodsurge procs anymore.

ebs2002 · 01/08/09, 2:38 PM

Noticed something missing: 40Expertise food as an option.

edit: put 14hit cuz i couldn't find it, but then I realized it just wasn't grouped where I thought it would be

Graul · 01/08/09, 6:11 PM

I've asked this before and maybe I just missed the answer, but doesn't the game round down when doing checks, i.e. 1.5% hit = 1% hit for checks? If that's the case then wouldn't it still be better to add one hit gem to make it 2%? It's not like you would be getting absolutely nothing at all from the hit gem, but if the game rounds down you are definitely not getting anything from that 0.5% hit. You could always add 16 str instead and still have wasted stat points floating around I guess.

landsoul · 01/08/09, 6:53 PM

The game's rounding behavior is quite odd. I've found sometimes doing static bloodsurge damage as either one number or the number -1 on multiple occasions. I don't see how a computer program could do this unless it was deliberate and that there was an algorithm that determined the randomness. Much like the random playlist in a music player, it's not truely random because it's determined by that algorithm.

I always believed that that it only truncates display values in the character sheet, but doesn't actually round them. Of course, it really is difficult to know.

To answer your question Graul, I don't think the game rounds down any chances at all. The game can handle many decimal places very well. In programming there are different kinds of stored variables that take up a certain amount of space. For certain kinds of variables, the size is static no matter the size of the value assigned to the variable. It wouldn't make sense to take additional steps to round a very accurate number and restore it. You can however, easily manipulate the display of these variables without changing the actual value that is assigned to the variable.

Graul · 01/08/09, 6:58 PM

I never really thought too much about it until WoTLK and I guess there still isn't any need now then if the game does actually use decimals for checks and not just whole numbers. I suppose if it didn't use decimals then something like 6.5% for the dodge cap wouldn't really make any sense.

Grayson Carlyle · 01/09/09, 3:09 AM

I have 295 hit rating, which translates to a total of 8.9966% chance to hit. The character sheet is rounding this up to 9.00, but I still get the occasional miss. 3 so far actually—since my gear was set up this way—in a half dozen attempts + kill of Sarth 3D, all of Naxx25 and all of Naxx10. I'm quite sure every one of those decimals is counting towards my 99.9966% chance to hit.

Avin · 01/09/09, 10:47 AM

Yes, they most likely do count, but with just under 9% hit and 3/3 Precision you should actually have just over 1% chance to miss specials as TG anyway, so it doesn't really show anything. (8% base miss + 5% from TG - 3% from Precision - 8.9966% from gear = 1.0034% to miss specials)

Grayson Carlyle · 01/09/09, 1:39 PM

ebs2002 · 01/09/09, 3:01 PM

You need 10% hit for TG. When the miss rate was 9%, you needed 11% hit. After the patch comes out, you only need 5%.

ebs2002 · 01/13/09, 11:49 AM

I have a request; I've been working on this for myself, but it should be pretty easy to add to the baseline (it's a little bit of work for me to have to do it with each release of the sheet as it requires me to edit the Lookup Sort macro):

An "Upgrade" column in the Lookup sheet, that will VLOOKUP whatever item you're currently wearing, and then list how much SEP difference there is between the two. This will help identify where the largest upgrades are without having to manually do the math.

Insert a new column at Lookup!T_, heading "Upgrade".

T2=M2-VLOOKUP('Set1'!$B$6,$D$2:$O$234,10,FALSE)

Fill down. Repeat for each slot.

Then, when you click sort, I can see that getting the Obsidian Greathelm is 50SEP upgrade, and Collar of Dissolution is 25SEP, etc.

The reason why I found it necessary to do this multiple times rather than just once is that SEP values can vary dramatically with upgrades. I did all the work manually yesterday, then got a few upgrades and it really changes my plan a lot.

---
Edit:
Just a note if you want to pursue this: you'll have to update the SEP macro as well in the weapon speed SEP calculations. Add +11 to the columns for main-hand, and +12 to the columns for off-hand. This is in addition to the LookupSort changes that would need to be made. If you want, I can send you the macros I'm using and/or the whole sheet (which includes the Upgrade column for every slot). Just PM me or reply here