As Arms with the Cleave glyph on H Anub10, I don't use Haste. It's an extremely poor stat for Arms on the whole, and the uptime of the adds isn't high enough that enough to make the stat investment worth the cost. Of course, I could just be somewhat pampered by the people I'm running with in my 10s, but even in our alts run, the adds just aren't up long enough to give Haste even a chance to approach other stats.

You say that you're replacing the Execute glyph with Cleave. Off the top of my head, I use Rending, Execute, and Cleaving for Anub as Arms. I'm guessing you're running Rending, MS, and Cleaving - I wouldn't recommend using MS on this fight. It's an extremely rage-hungry ability, and you already have an expensive ability in your liberal use of Cleave for this fight. I'd recommend more or less dropping MS for this fight (unless all adds are down, or you are very high on rage, and maybe once Leeching Swarm is out but before 20% when you'd drop MS entirely in favor of Execute).

I was using sword spec for a while, and it really seemed to help with rage gen on the heavy cleave spam situations. Might be worth thinking about as another way to get more rage for those fights.

Landsoul – You’ve been a BIG say in what the warrior needs, in gearing up and changes for LK, and in reference to the official posting on the warrior. Quoted for efficiency.

“The solution to making warriors scale more appropriately with gear (instead of being bad at first and good later) is to normalize rage more. That's an answer that a lot of warriors hate hearing, which is one of the reasons we haven't done it yet. For many warriors, rage is a limitation to be overcome with enough gear. That's not really our vision of the class though.” - Ghostcrawler
MMO-Champion BlueTracker - @all the "Warriors are OP" QQ.

I wanted to ask you a three tier question in reference to rage generation and being so gear dependent.

What do you think would most help …
…The gearing warrior?
…The middle of the road warrior?
…The cutting edge warrior such as yourself?

and finally if I may, What is your view or vision of the class? For 3.3 and Cataclysm.

I only know that last time they changed rage generation was a disaster. That's the reason behind "we haven't done it yet" and not the "warriors hate hearing".

I think honestly you’re probably right, or that Ghostcrawler is just getting out a statement early to precede a rage normalization change on the ptr soon, next patch. If I know GC like I don't know Gc, that’s my guess.

Honestly I would like to believe the poor guy, who uses these misdirections from his psychology to sort of prep us into doing or thinking something else. When what he probably really means as you so eloquently said it 'they screwd up', and they are not as happy to admit it when they do, even though they say otherwise. No one is.

But I truly hope and wish they are working on a bigger better fix, which in my now debunked dream was hoping for 3.3! Which is kind of why I wanted to hear it from Landsoul, because last time something big was coming Landsoul was right in the middle, and had a HUGE inpactful statement on the matter that was misconstrued I think. Although its gotta be nice to hear, ‘we like Landsoul's idea.’

Oh I wanted to add, I am really excited about the discussions going on for hit and crit. I have some stuff to add, but wanted to do more of my own playing with specs, gear, and seeing what I get out of it, before I try and add more. I am SUPER excited about all the discussion it spurned and can't wait for some more. I have realized that Mark of the Supremacy beats Banner of Victory for me at the caps. Which is not reflected in the sheet/discussion.

You all knew it was coming. This has been a legitimate problem for a long time. The only issue i see is: how do you make low end warrior not suck and high end warriors not get nerfed?

Anyway, if you want to read my post it's here:
World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> @all the "Warriors are OP" QQ.

Also check the front page for a needed update to the sheet.

Don't think about it like energy think about it like Runic Power.
I really wouldn't mind seeing a rotation that is up all the time.

You cannot predict how much rage you will gain because you cannot predict when you will crit. Rage is by no means similar to energy. Energy is free and you get some on the side by certain things. You have to be autoattacking or taking damage to get rage. Runic power is somewhat like rage, only it comes from a totally different source.

Honestly I wish they would do that. Runic Power is different and doesn't affect your rotation, if you tied in a two resource system like that to the warrior, it would be insane.

Wierd thought: What if they took away the cost of BT and WW, and left in the cost for HS, and Cleave. This would solve our problems but not the prot warrior. Up the cost of HS and Cleave to like 25-50 for each.

Has anyone seen the ptr dungeon change. When you enter a dungeon you gain 75ish rage. I am not sure if this is a bug or buffs. Makes buffing REALLY nice.

In this epic post. (Link to the one everyones talking about again)
World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> @all the "Warriors are OP" QQ.
I came acrsos a change to Sunder I thought was interesting. Make sunder a one shot 60 rage move. Would be op for arenas. Basically the super sunder puts up the stack(5).

In regards to 'sunder bots' as someone put it. I do for this for my guild, and it hurts my dps. I wish they would rework sunder to make it easier. Like when the 30 seconds is up it drops one instead of the full stack or something. Or give us a glyph to double stack our sunders like devestate but for sunders.

I re-read what you wrote, i hope i got it right:
1. If i understood right, you want only haste (lets put real weapon speed aside) and crit to be the only stats that effect rage gained, not considering attack damage or whatever - you also stated that you want rage gaind to be less then now, so crit won't make 10 rage (just random number) attack into 100 one, and that 20% haste diffrence won't give you infinite rage compared to baseline warrior.
2. You want baseline warriors to have enough rage to keep "minimal" rotaion by using talents that increase rage gained.
3. You want high-geared warriors to either keep rage talents and have no rage increasing stats (ArP and strength) or have rage increasing stats (haste, crit) and no rage talents.

Practcily, you wan't low-geared warriors to have enough rage to keep minimal rotation and high-geared warriors to decide how much rage they are going to have.
Now two situations may arise:
1. You will do more DPS by keeping minimalstic rotation and having "damage-only" increasing stats.
2. You will do more DPS by getting infinite rage first, and only then have "damage-only" increasing stats.
Obviously, there might in-between rotation which will be the best (as in, get enough gear to do X rotation, and then stack damage increasing stats) but it doesn't change the essence of what troubles me.

In case two, there will be basicly no diffrence from what it's now - Low-geared warriors won't be able to keep optimal ability usege, and will feel gimped. Yes, they will see DPS buff when not so geared/buffed (watching unbuffed fury warrior is preaty sad, at least at pre-ToC gear levels), but there are other ways to change it then changing rage (like giving higer base values and less scaling, which can be seen on arms when compared to fury). Saying that, i am preaty sure you havn't ment infinite rage be basline - so number 1.
In case 1, all warriors will use same rotation all the time and we will see linear increase as gear becomes better. Personly i don't like it - i think having "just enough rage" is as much as having predictable enregy/mana, with some nice crit proc to give you HS or whatever from time to time - thats what i ment when i said it looks to me like energy.
It seems to me like hige change in gameplay - i know that even now we use set priority system, but the unpredcitability of rage is of much higher value now. With set amount of rage i will be able to know for sure stuff like "i can HS in 10 seconds", i won't have low-rage burst or high-rage burst. The advantages of set rotation is illusional in my opnion - it won't increase dps, then it will be unrelated buff to high-geared warriors.

I hope it doesn't sound all too offensive, but saying all that - What is the real goal of those changes?

When I put in my name and server I get the following error:

Run-time error '91'

Object variable or With block variable not set

WOW great job on the new sheet, I thought the last few pages were wishful thinking on my part. The Grim Toll used to shoot to the bottom once you put it on, since you don't need the hit. Now it seems to go off the proc more, although the stats DO matter.

This seems to be for fury only, right now I still need to go through, but grim toll doesn't want to play nice with arms, and when I took it off my trinkets went all crazy. Banner of victory shot to the top, and Fury of the Five flights was next outside of the Ulduar ones.

I just can't say enough how pretty it looks, and back to how it really should go, now if only you could get the items to register their precap values as well.

I was messing around with the spreadsheet, and it looked like equipping both Death's Choice and gemming pure arp from that point onwards is a much bigger increase in damage than Runestone+Death's Choice.

Spreadsheet currently shows me at 9889 dps in BIS gear, orc.

Had a question....

I have 511 armor pen. My SEP is higher for strength then it is for Armor pen. Yet I am no where near the rating cap for armor pen. Should I be stacking armor pen gems or strength gems?

The World of Warcraft Armory

I am not the sheet or the post resident expert; however I wanted to point out a couple small things.

If you import your character into the new 2.503 version, the sheet actually needs to be adjusted slightly to help you out. I am sure you probably fixed these issues, but do check them out. When you import your toon from armory, everything is fine, but do adjust the crafting professions on the far right side. Skinning and Enchanting in your case. I won't suggest going bs/jc, but min/max those are the best. Cost is always an issue thou. This made a difference for me, in getting rid of the extra prismatic sockets. And bringing out the real gemming solution.

When you run the sep calculator as is, I think it uses the gems even though they are not gemmed. This is sounding like what is happening with my little testing I did.

Second, your sheet actually comes up with Crit as the most prevalent of choices, since I believe, as per the discussion it really demands a base crit higher than 33.5 in your case as you're sitting at a cozy 33.38. This appears to be hit/exp controlled with your gear and the sheet. I first thought instead of gemming to fix this, replace your agi meta with a crit one. Regardless the crit meta has always been the way to go. Although with further testing this is proving to just keep increasing the more gems you change to crit. Although I suggest going with the siren's tier as it meets your new meta/ heck even probably better for the old one, and put the siren in your Jb. While its 300g on my server, its 14 str 10 agi so forth. Which is taking into account the JB socket bonus. In regeming some of your yellow gems which are 20 str to the epic 10str/10crit, I found the dps was rising, as you get more socket bonuses as well as crit it wants more, as your over the caps. What I am seeing though.

However I can also see you’re not doing that because it simpler to gem for the agi one, I also have a special place in my heart for a kings boost stat like agi. The choice is really yours. It’s a dps increase the more crit you get, but keep changing it in the spreadsheet, run a sep calc and check the before and after dps differences. If you really wanted to you could get a siren's tier, the 10stats in your JB, instead of say you’re carnivorous as you are probably looking for a Band of the Violent Temperment or a Ring of Callous Agression soon. Either way it’s a slight increase as your matching the 4 str and getting more agi/crit. It's a thought.

Upgrade wise If you replace your chest with a t9.5/9.0, the best slot I could find quickly without losing any other stats, you will notice your crit rise even more, as original I had hoped the bonus would help you. However I believe since your hit and expertise are high enough that more stats just demand more crit to keep the whole engine going.

Those are just my thoughts; feel free to pick them apart.

As per your real question, about gemming for str or arp, that is what the sheet I personally think is the best at, spending only time and a little regemming in the sheet you can see its not going to be a HUGE dps increase, and still not get armor pen up to high enough level to gem for it. Honestly I find without an armor pen trinket you really are better off going for pure strength over armor pen. The sheet is telling you this, when you see the str being 1.0 and armor pen being like 0.8877 in your case. If you instead got a grim toll or something I am sure you would see 1.02 armor pen, meaning gem for armor pen, if of course none of this brings you over the 100% armor pen cap. Which unforunately as you brought out you are no where near.

Please look into the crit. I think at this point it’s because the sheet is so hungry, for theoretical dps of not missing or being dodge, it wants more crit. This does equal more rage.

Hope I helped. This is the real power of the sheet, and excel. Cheap easy simulation once you got the sheet and the know how/time.

Hi, I was wondering when and if this will support Office 2010?

I am not Landsoul, but I can speak from some experience, not sure if this is a compliment to Landsoul or Microsoft (gasp yeh Microsoft)

Currently I am in the beta for 2010, which I take it your not - please let Landsoul know otherwise if it's not working for you. Anyways in 2010 it works almost beautiful. Their are some graphic errors, and things out of place. However I was able to get it to work and have been using it for the last week or two. Albeit this is under the Virtualization CTP of 2010 but its working just as well as one could expect. Office 2010 is really slow because of the Virtualization engine that runs all the time, however this sheet works very well, I can run SEP, import, do everything normally. Even have done so under windows 7, vista, so there is hardly anything Landsoul could do different from my prospective to make it work as intended.

Update: Great after I had done wtih this infamous post, I finally got XP:Home installed and found a much different story for 2010which is nothing landsoul could really fix. I have yet to go through all the settings, but it seems xp doesn't much appreciate the external forumula to get your armory import. I can see this is really not THAT bad, but in terms of sheet functionality and microsoft sorta like hey you can't do that, because well we don't want you too. Again under windows 7 and vista it only complained about graphics, and let you import the sheet with some little knowhow.

What has been your experience?

Can some explain me why ArP drops very low when i am very near the cap? I am 8 ArP from the cap, and have ArP as 0.3 SEP. Removing 1 ArP makes ArP be worth 5.4, -2 5.10. ArP keeps getting value the less i have untill i add -13 (21 ArP from cap). At this point taking 1 more ArP down make the stat worth less. I understand how it may happen with stats like hit, but with ArP it doesn't make any sense..

By default, the sheet calculates SEP with increments of 20. You can make it more precise by changing the value of D26 to 1.

I wonder if this is because epic gems come in 20 (arp) in this case increments. Interesting thought, thanks for clarifing this I was curious about it as well.

i downloaded this spread sheet and it's completely amazing...i do have a few questions which i really need help with to fully utilize this spreadsheet

there are many Abbreviations that i do not know the meaning of >< and lots of the info is going right over my head.

first question..stuff like the rage generation chart

const 453.3 %MH cont 49.81%
mhcrit 7.00 %OH cont 50.19%
oh crit 3.50 mh every 4.4660
mh crit 3.50 OH every 2.5738

that is at the top of the "Rage Generation and Consumption" chart

and i dont really know exactly what it means..i can make somewhat of an assumption but id like to know for real so i can better use this spreadsheet.

also have a question about the SEP (this one is labeled so i know what it means lol)

says SEP=2.180 DPS
2 AP .7576
Agil .7050
Crit .8451
Hit .4156

etc .....would really appreciate some help maybe all of these questions and other acroynm definitions have been asked and answered already but theres like 60 pages would take hours to go through them all. so if someone could direct me maybe to where they are or just answer teh questions i have here id appreciate it.

and as a side note i spend alot of time after raids looking at recount and going through my abilities avg crit/non hit everything seeing whats what and im noticing that execute is completely useless. i only use execute with 30 rage and it does about 500-600 less damage than bloodthirst on avg, and it crits for less as well, its way more viable to not even use execute as it uses more rage than the rest of my abilities, if both ww and bt are on CD with HS in queue and i still have rage to work with ill use execute and execute > slam anyone else notice the lack of execute damage?

Myabe someone could also give me some tips about stats that i might want to possibly change up.
(Unbuffed)
4844 Ap
227 Hit
40.80% Crit
26/26 Expertse

I shall not want to turn this into let's ask any question post, however deep down inside I want to believe people are generally asking these questions for some other reason than what comes to mind. As to what the Rage generation numbers mean, its somewhat murky/clear in my mind, so I won't suggest someone else not answering that, in which they have a more complete answer.

However look at this site, will probably help the most.
Acronyms - Acronyms - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

'Kazeyonoma - ""Lol Krenian are you being sarcastic or are you really asking about SEP.

SEP is Strength Equivalence Points. Basically 1 Str = 1 SEP. Everything else is based around this fact. So when using a spreadsheet like Landsouls he creates formulas to determine how much "value" a stat has when it is coupled with the rest of your stats.""'
Warrior Armor Penetration, Confusion, and Opinions - Page 5 - TankSpot
Googled - "Strength Equivalency Points" or as my brother would say 'bing for it'.

Please refer to the chart called Execute and see if you can draw any more conclusions. I've heard similar things to what your saying. However have no true answer for you, except that I see what you mean and hear quite frequetly that execute well just plain sucks.