As far as patch notes come for warriors, the old saying goes: no news is good news.

Just looking at WOTLK, nerfs have been pretty rampant. Various nerfs to Titan's Grip, Juggernaut, Armor Penetration... I think we are doing great on the charts right now, and with the new gear I expect our damage with shadowmourne at the end of ICC will be pretty insane.

Maybe it just means our class is working as intended. You can't expect to be able to push out superior dps from pure dps classes, tank better than other tank classes, wear plate AND shoot lightnings from your behind can you?

It appears blizzard isn't going to make us the best dps nor do I personally see major flaws in the way warriors work. All we can do now is wait and see how well the ICC scaling will treat us (compared to other classes).

Well I am doing just that in comparison to all the other classes it seems Every Patch they have some major scales move up or down with druids, hunters, warlocks, priest, shamans major changes in ever patch warriors nothing.

No I dont expect top dps or best tanking but just some changes.

Wow, I think your alone on that one. The rage mechanic is downright terrible, especially if you've ever played a DK. The other thing I have a hissy over is heroic strike...gah! It makes me want to tear my hair out. Blizzard even admitted recently they couldn't figure out what to do with DK tanking upon a miss/dodge/parry and thus Rune Strike (another on next swing ability for those of you unfamiliar) was born! Warriors have been getting the run around on these issues for a long time. I don't expect any fixes for the duration of WotLK, so my warrior will remain my main through the end. However, Blizzard has acknowledged our pain and I would expect to see a revamp come Cataclysm, otherwise you will probably see more warriors roll DK.

I believe the reason warriors have not been changed or tweeked is because we are very unique in the situations where we shine. Given equal skill and gear, the pure dps classes provide superior single target and many target dps (AoE) than warriors. Many hybrids also provide superior single and/or many target dps (DK's, ferals, rets, shamans, etc.). The area that fury warriors really shine is the 2-4 target range. Between whirlwind and a glyphed/talented cleave, we can't be beat when there are 2-4 targets present (Twins, Anub with adds, Kologarn, etc.). Warriors can be so out of balance in these situations that it becomes very difficult to adjust anything else for fear of throwing us out of whack even more.

The long term solution is really to overhaul Whirlwind in order to make it less effective when multiple adds are up (i.e. non-primary targets take 50% damage or something) and compensate by buffing bloodthirst. This would increase our single target dps to where it needs to be while bringing us back down to earth a little when multiple targets are up. As for a true AoE for when there are many mobs present, it might be time to make thunder clap usable in all stances. I'm not sure how viable this is but it would certainly give fury warriors a much needed unlimited target AoE and bring back a signature move of the class to all 3 specs. I know there are times when I resent seeing blizzards rain down, volley arrows, fan of knives, and rain of fire from those pure dps classes. Heck, I even resent a well placed consecrate or DnD while I'm stuck cleaving 3 targets and waiting for whirlwind to refresh.

As suffer partialy said, there are indeed some major flaws (sorted by importance):

- Heroic Strike, too much button pressing - could be solved by triggering it permanently until you untrigger it like Autoattack/Autoshot
- Slam refreshing itself (not stacking) or refreshing it self too fast - this could be easily solved by removing the GCD or reducing it
- Rage being almost unlimited with good gear - needs probably a new normalization or a whole new formula
- AoE damage being limited to 4 targets (outlining Thunder Clap)

#1: No, but the way it works now isn't fine as it involves just too much button pressing
#2: Even IF you prioritize it (which is a DPS loss), you will see that it sometimes will refresh too quickly before you can even (limited by GCD) press it
#3: Just because we have unlimited rage, doesn't mean "we can DPS like DKs"
#4: Yes.

And thanks for your "macro tip" but this is not what I mean, as I don't want to trigger HS "all times" - edit: what I want would be to trigger it off and on with pressing one and the same button (as already said).

All these are minor issues. Blizzard has already stated that they are working on redoing HS. Fury warriors are in a great place right now. Their single target dps is up there with the best classes, their AOE damage is pretty insane as well. There are a few quality of life fixes that can be made, but I fully expect us to dominate charts in the last tier instance of this expansion, the same way we did in BC.

DK AOE needs to be nerfed, and maybe their single target slightly as well, but leaving fury as it is right now is the best idea. It's in a perfect position to be dominant.

Indeed. Also check out the first 4 bosses in ICC. The first boss is single target with minor spike cleave. The next 3 fights are pure add bliss. Should be perfect for fury.

Judging by the previous posts, I'd guess there are a lot of people who share my point of view also. I also find that there is little point in going "change things or I'll change/quit/QQ" and personally I'd hardly think people who are dissatisfied with warriors would all reroll DKs.

If you think warriors are broken do elaborate on how is rage mechanics broken? Other than the fact that it sometimes limits our dps alot and sometimes there is too much of it? And personally

I think HS is a great skill to burn extra rage and works quite well. While playing as DK (Yeah I've actually rerolled warrior from dk, crazy world isn't it?) I often found it frustrating not to be able to burn all the runic power I generated due to all the other GCD skills being more valuable. Sure the above suggestion of having it as on-off ability would be handy, but can be achieved by the macro i described where the only shift-mousewheel could be used to achieve the exact same thing.

As for the 4 issues Kaan pointed out:
2nd one (slam) I'd classify as a non issue
4th one (unlimited AE) is not something every class is obliged to ... and I agree
1st (heroic) and 3rd one (rage) are not some minor tweak you change midway in an expansion. Wait for Cataclysm to see changes made here. As several blue have stated already.

I would agree that warriors are in a good place right now. I am pleased to see that they are not going to have any major changes coming. Yes there is not chance for me to keep up with our DK on Faction Champs but really its one fight, and I blow him out of the water on Twins.

The rage mechanic is a little squirmy but Blizzard has been over this. If they make so well geared warriors are not swimming in rage then the poorly geared one have nothing. Blizzard has chosen to look after the casual player more as there are more over them. And they are here to make money so its good to keep the casuals going.

I am looking forward to 3.3.

I do see some major revamps going to the rage mechanic in the next expansion pack, but till then I say they let us roll on through.

Hey guys, according to mmo-champion, new PTR build shows that 2pT10 has been reduced from 20% AP to 16% AP.

To oversimplify, the issue with Rage is that it's a resource based on damage done. This single fact creates multiple scaling issues which are the cause of almost all the complaints seen in the last few posts. Kivothe complains he has too much Rage, trivializing the Fury rotation. He also cites that others complain about a lack of Rage, largely due to their insufficient gear. In the middle are people like myself, who'll notice that the presence or absence of buffs such as Windfury can radically affect the reliability of Rage.

Of course, this is also what makes Rage unique as a resource. Blizzard has delayed any Rage mechanic changes until Cataclysm for this reason; maintaining the uniqueness of Rage as a resource while addressing its critical flaw is not a trivial task. It's practically a paradox.

The fact its from deepwounds only kind of surprises me, anyone actually check what their deep wounds uptime is single target? I'm not at 100% and I would think I should be =/

To the nerf, oh well. 20% AP from a 2 piece proc was kind of insane anyways.

To the issue with slam refreshing itself; I wonder what the effect of it stacking would create, or would we become more of a prioritized spec? =/

I'm not complaining that I have too much rage at all. I just know how to manage my rage. I'm pointing out about the people who complain that they don't have any, and it's simply due to them either not understanding mechanics, or spamming HS, when quite obviously they shouldn't.

If you actually read my post - I said I'm sick of seeing people complaining they have too much or not enough rage, I did not take a side in the argument) limiting their dps. Yes, if you have end game gear, you can spam all day anything you want. And these players are complaining that they still have wasted rage because they are always at 100. There are also people who try to do the same things as the best geared warriors, and fall short, not only de-ragging themselves, but loosing huge ammounts of dps in the meantime, and complaining that they can't spam buttons.

As for the 20%-->16%, at 12,000 AP, its really only a 480 AP difference 14,400 or 13,920

Don't get me wrong though, you will never see me on a DK or Pally!

As always, Blizzard has the argument between Casual palyers and Hardcore players. If they could somehow get rid of the 'spike' rage, it would make things a lot smoother, transitionally with rotations. However, 'fixing' rage to where are levels of gear are not effected in a negative way will be extremely difficult. The only way I can see them changing it is to allow the casual player to gain more rage (talents perhaps? - we already have 2, but apparently those aren't enough), but in doing this they will further overpower high end warriors.

Darian, I'm assuming you have above average gear - haven't checked your armory. Can you honestly say that you enjoy the 'new' play style of a warrior over the BC warrior? I guess we have 8 months or so to keep track of what changes they will be making to warriors in the next expansion.

So very true, and it will only continue to get worse as the game moves on.

Oh and Kaan, pushing to many buttons is hard..... as Fury you click what, BloodThirst, Whirlwind, Cleave or Heroic Strike, Slam, am I missing anything? Arms Clicks way more buttons then Fury does and to top it off, Warriors do not = Elemental Shamans!!!! We are better dps then they are due to the fact that they only click 4 buttons.

I read people saying we press too many keys as a direct reference to HS spam. As GC alluded to a while back, Blizz wanted to get away from warriors "leaving a brick" on the HS key, as it's actually a pretty flawed mechanic.

At high gear levels (i.e. almost limitless rage) you can HS every swing, so in raid I spend 4 hours hitting 1 key every 1.5 seconds, which if you think about it, is actually a little bit retarded.

This won't get looked at till Cataclysm, because its inexorably linked with the rage mechanic, but I expect it to form the core of the major overhaul of the class we have been expecting for a long time.

I do agree with the general consensus that, for this final raid tier at least, warriors are in a good position and don't need to be messed about with. As one poster put it so eloquently, 'no news is good news'.

Try to bind HS to mousewheel up. I did this for tanking but it's also very nice for DPS'n as fury with finger fatique! Works wonders.

Hs being constantly pressed actually makes us press LESS buttons - as at high lvl of gear, you can easily macro HS to everything else you press if you want.

Actually a simple

/Castsequence Whirlwind,Bloodthirst,Bloodthirst
/Cast Heroic Strike

macro covers 90% of fury warrior play, add a slam button and you are done (single target, no edbuff management but you get the idea).

HS being a CHOICE would actually mean we would get that extra button.

With Shaa's post and seeing some of the ones proceeding it, I feel that a few things should be made clear about Heroic Strike, which I know is lost upon the general warrior playing population, but it shouldn't be lost on the people here. First off, Heroic Strike is not a broken or flawed mechanic. It's not pretty, but it does exactly what it's supposed to do. It allows for a feed back energy source to do something with its access energy that otherwise would go to waste. It's what it was designed to do, it's what it does, and it does it very well. It is not, has never been, broken or flawed. Now, it's not an exciting or glorious move, but in all honesty, I like it. It's an excellent gauge on just how well you are doing scaling wise as a warrior. When you are on the low end of gear you will see less of them, when you are on the high end virtually every single main hand swing will be converted to a heroic strike. It's beautiful and it's progressive because we are the only class in the game whose move %s change so much. I mean look at whirlwind during Naxx, the move was 19% of my damage sometimes. Now, it's down near around 9-10%. It's not that I WW less, or that I don't hit it, it's just that my other moves have scaled better.

That being said, it's sort of annoying that a move that you learn at level one continues to be the core of DPS for Fury warriors. In that sense it is broken because none fury moves are more important than moves that are supposedly central to the tree.

Anyway, as I said, the play style may not be fun for some people, but the mechanic is just fine. Stop hating on Heroic Strike. Instead, spend the time with me fuming that our 4 piece tier 10 set bonus supports and RNG move that does less than 6% of my total damage and will maybe see those numbers go up to 10% if we are lucky.....IF we are lucky....