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Old 02/16/10, 3:57 PM   #2866
RPZip
Von Kaiser
 
RPZip's Avatar
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Illidan
Originally Posted by Abccookies View Post
But now with crit being so high can't it be coming around again because of axe specs increased crit damage boost? And you aren't putting points in prot for the extra 15 crit to heroic strike the spec would be closer to 25/46/0 like mentioned above
The problem, fundamentally speaking, is that while the damage reduction on Titan's Grip is annoying you're also gaining the effects of Two-Handed Weapon Specialization, which ends up canceling much of it out. Going 25 points into Arms sounds fine, but what exactly do you put those points -into- with a 1H build? You end up grabbing Imp. Overpower and Taste for Blood since there's just nothing else to buy, and those talents are... not exactly spectacular for Fury. Even relatively mediocre talents like Unending Fury or Precision (assuming you're above 8% without it) are far better than points which buy you nothing. A Fury/arms/prot build (15/48/8) to grab Incite runs into the same fundamental problem; 15% more crit on HS/Cleave is extremely good for three talent points, but somewhat less so for 8.

The other problem is just the massive stat differential. 2x Havoc's Call (LK25H 1H Axe) gives you a total of ~519 non-Stamina stat points; 2x Glorenzelg (LK25H 2H Sword) gives you a total of ~984. Even factoring in the difference between AGI-itemized weapons and STR-itemized weapons, you're losing an absolutely massive amount of stats; adding another 2Her is roughly equivalent to being able to wear an additional two rings, and that's ignoring the damage boost you get out of both a higher normalization value for Whirlwind/Slam and gaining a ~1000 AP bonus directly to weapon damage.

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Old 02/17/10, 2:49 AM   #2867
sgtbean
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Earthen Ring
I was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction -- where do i go to research whether Strength +20 gems or Armor Pen +20 gems are better for Fury warriors --- according to Rawr -- strength gems are better than armor pen gems -- but when i did profile checks on a lot of better geared fury warriors them myself they seem to go for Armor Pen gems --- is rawr incorrect on this --

And i'm sorry if this is in the wrong thread -- please point to the appropriate thread -- thanks!!

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Old 02/17/10, 3:19 AM   #2868
Nevena
Glass Joe
 
Nevena's Avatar
 
Human Warrior
 
Cenarius
Originally Posted by Dalmasca View Post
I was just discussing this on the SimCraft thread actually. When I ran the simulation for a well-geared warrior friend of mine, Mongoose on the OH only came out to be a ~20 dps increase over Berserking. Based on other tests, you still want Berserking in the MH, and Executioner is still not worth it (though the margin was surprisingly close) on either weapon.

Anyone else found this to be true, and if so, does that sound unusual?
I got the same results using Landsoul's spreadsheet. I'm now running Mongoose on OH and after some more upgrades will potentially use Executioner, depending on how my stats scale. Berserking, Mongoose, and Executioner all seem to be neck in neck for total DPS gains, and at one point in gear level it's going to come down to preference, not to mention that Mongoose will help on cleave fights more.

Myself, I think I'll be going with Mongoose for OH. It seems Berserking is still best for MH, though I would bet it's subject to change with gear level. I manipulated some of my stat values and the gap between Berserking and the other enchants for MH was closing. We should keep an eye on how our numbers change (both in-game and on spreadsheet) with different enchants. Food for thought.

Originally Posted by bradwarden View Post
Can you cite some theory or empirical evidence? Needs moar depth.
There was math done on this back in Ulduar if you look back a few dozen pages. If used correctly it's a noticeable increase in DPS. I think I saw someone mention that Landsoul has even incorporated it into the spreadsheet (which is awesome!).

Last edited by Nevena : 02/17/10 at 3:31 AM.

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Old 02/17/10, 4:55 AM   #2869
Ran Newman
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Terokkar (EU)
With current gear availble I doubt executioner Is a viable option, unless for very specific gear setup. The itemztion in icc (alot of ArP+expertise/hit, insted of the "normal" crit+expertise/hit/ArP) makes it very easy to hardcap ArP even without top notch gear, and no matter how you look at it hardcaping ArP is better then softcapping it with executioner.

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Old 02/17/10, 5:19 AM   #2870
jbhdhf
Glass Joe
 
Human Warrior
 
Korgath
executioner is a transitional enchant, just like mongoose. If you are approximately 120 arp off the hardcap executioner will come out ahead on your main hand. Similarly if you have room on crit cap, mongoose may be a better off hand. Once you hard cap arp, and assuming decent overall gear balance, double berserking will win out again.

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Old 02/17/10, 9:21 AM   #2871
Slévin
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Dunemaul (EU)
Hey,

I am currently a bit over hit cap so i am planning to trade my 3 points in Precision to Enrage, with 2 in Imp. Execute and Heroic Fury. Our raid already has imp. might kings and commanding presence. Any suggestions? Shall i use them on somewhere else which can be more useful like AM or imp intercept? or shall i still stick with precision?

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Old 02/17/10, 12:44 PM   #2872
Powerslave
Von Kaiser
 
Powerslave's Avatar
 
Orc Shaman
 
Twilight's Hammer (EU)
Originally Posted by Slévin View Post
Hey,

I am currently a bit over hit cap so i am planning to trade my 3 points in Precision to Enrage, with 2 in Imp. Execute and Heroic Fury. Our raid already has imp. might kings and commanding presence. Any suggestions? Shall i use them on somewhere else which can be more useful like AM or imp intercept? or shall i still stick with precision?
You're logged out on your tanking gear,but I'm going to assume you're over the yellow hitcap and not white.

You have to consider precision pushes your crit cap higher,so depending on your gear,dropping precision might mean losing crit as well.

Other than that,imp execute is a very small DPS increase as you can only use it as a filler and you should not have enrage spec'd unless it is for a specific fight,seeing as it doesn't proc at all on some fights.

If I were you,I'd stick with precision,unless you're somehow hardcapped on hit which is pretty hard to believe-if you're hitcapped on whites you have problems beyond the talent themselves,namely gearing /gemming issues.

Authoritah!

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Old 02/17/10, 2:48 PM   #2873
RPZip
Von Kaiser
 
RPZip's Avatar
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Illidan
Originally Posted by Slévin View Post
Hey,

I am currently a bit over hit cap so i am planning to trade my 3 points in Precision to Enrage, with 2 in Imp. Execute and Heroic Fury. Our raid already has imp. might kings and commanding presence. Any suggestions? Shall i use them on somewhere else which can be more useful like AM or imp intercept? or shall i still stick with precision?
Stick with precision, drop a point out of Imp. Berserker Rage to pick up Heroic Fury.

Actually, I'd drop both points out of Imp. Berserker Rage; it's just clunky and typically hard to use when actually in combat with something, and in most cases you'd be better off with something like AM if you absolutely must have the Rage boost.

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Old 02/17/10, 8:43 PM   #2874
Ran Newman
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Terokkar (EU)
On the topic or rage generation talents, it suprises me that imporved bloodrage is never mentioned as viable option. Having 40 seconds CD, i found that ability very useful when I use one HS to much, or when i want to drop in fast cleave. Improving it will make it even better for "ho-shit" situetions since it will be possible to use WW with the instant rage provided - Obviously it won't give alot of constent rage but it will be there when you need it. Anger managment might give you more rage overall but it seems to me that improved bloodrage should be better dps increase if it makes it possible to avoid wasting WW CD time.

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Old 02/18/10, 3:39 AM   #2875
ComMcNeil
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Azshara (EU)
please delete

Last edited by ComMcNeil : 02/18/10 at 8:09 AM.

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Old 02/18/10, 4:27 AM   #2876
suicuique
King Hippo
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Antonidas (EU)
He's talking about improved bloodrage though. This works off the global cooldown. (contrary to improved berserker rage).

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Old 02/18/10, 8:52 AM   #2877
Ran Newman
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Terokkar (EU)
Originally Posted by Charmath View Post
ArP from Sunders, Faire Fire and Shattering throw do not count towards ArP from gear (including set bonuses) or stance bonus.
As far as I know, shattering throw is on the same boat as ArP rating and battle stance bonus.

EDIT: seems I was wrong. I got confused by the low amount of dps I gain when shattering throw is active - guss I will have to go and learn how this thing actualy works insted of just counting on the spreadsheet.

Last edited by Ran Newman : 02/18/10 at 10:15 AM.

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Old 02/18/10, 9:56 AM   #2878
suicuique
King Hippo
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Antonidas (EU)
Originally Posted by Ran Newman View Post
As far as I know, shattering throw is on the same boat as ArP rating and battle stance bonus.
I'm pretty sure you are wrong. Easy way to memorize:
sunder, ff and shattering throw are debuffs on the mob
ArP, Set Bonus and Stance bonus are personal buffs

These two categories do not share "the same boat". So to speak.

Originally Posted by Kurg
However, this doesn't explain how SA leads to an increase in damage for those warriors whom have 100% passive ArP. We have been told that SA and like effects are applied to the target before ArP rating comes into play, but I can't recall if GC's post on ArP rating calculations a while back explained all of this in detail.
Because ArP does not affect all of the mobs armor (=AC) in every case but at most min(AC; (AC+15232)/3).
This means: if the armor of a given mob is < 7616, all of his armor can be ignored up to 0.
If his armor is > 7616, he will have residual armor left no matter how high your (personal) ArP is.

E.g. consider a boss with (IIRC) 10643 AC. fully debuffed he has 10643*0,8*0,95=8089 AC left. A warrior with hardcapped ArP would ignore 7616 of these, leaving only 8089-7774=315 AC of mobs armor to mitigate the warriors damage.
This is why shattering throw is a damage increasing effect even when a boss is sundered, ff'ed and you have 100% ArP.
With shattering throw active, a boss has 10643*0,8*0,95*0,8= 6471 AC lecft, which is less than 7616.

All of this was explained in detail when the blue posts about ArP mechanics were made. And I'm pretty sure in two months the same will be explained again.

Last edited by suicuique : 02/18/10 at 10:22 AM. Reason: math error corrected and a statement retracted

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Old 02/18/10, 12:07 PM   #2879
dkc48
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Shaman
 
Gorgonnash
Originally Posted by Aeraci View Post
When you get up to 97.10% (1359), (not 97.03% (1358)), that's when you should eat Hearty Rhino to cap you at 100% (1399).
I noticed this with certain warriors (including Landsoul). Is there a reason not to gem straight to 1399 arp and then eat str food instead? Why are warriors choosing to gem to 97% and then using food to hit 100%?

More room to work with future gear upgrades, I'm assuming?

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Old 02/18/10, 12:15 PM   #2880
Ran Newman
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Terokkar (EU)
Originally Posted by dkc48 View Post
I noticed this with certain warriors (including Landsoul). Is there a reason not to gem straight to 1399 arp and then eat str food instead? Why are warriors choosing to gem to 97% and then using food to hit 100%?

More room to work with future gear upgrades, I'm assuming?
Orenge gem slots, mainly.

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